Even battles are not ready for release

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Well I would make horse archers more difficult to actually acquire if I had my way tbf.
This is a truly great suggestion. Frankly I think a faction should NOT ever give you access you their best troop lines (specifically the noble lines, like Fians) unless you were a SWORN vassal. This would in itself help create a much better balance.

When last did you fight a battle against ANY lord where their troop mixture was not a complete buffet of foreign delicacies? So basically EVERY enemy zerg has the same flavour - even when you can not in your wildest fantasies get the "logic". Battanian Fain Champion/Khan's Guard/Elite Cataphract speaking: "So, my faction was invaded by your faction and took many of our fiefs. Here is my greatest desire, based on those facts, me (as a noble) want to join YOUR party (because you know, I have no cultural pride....)".

There should be a block programmed to stop foreigners recruiting noble, or elite soldiers from enemy factions, especially ones they are in current conflict with. Recruits & peasants sure, those chaps have to eat and will serve any master. But not nobles, and not trained soldiers. They can get employment by their own lords.

This will:
1. make battles more unique as not every party will have Battanian archers, Khuzait horse archers, Empire & Aserai infantry (over & over and over again).,
2. be more realistic
3. be more realistic
4. make combat more fun (and did I say realistic yet?)

I want to:
1. Face Sturgian shock troops in the frozen North
2. Battanian Fians in the hills
3. Vlandian cavalry and cross bows in the West
4. Khuzait horse archers in the East
5. Aserai hordes in the desert...

Not everything everywhere, all the time, with very opposition lord in every war, which is my current experience (fighting as new kingdom in line with crusader state in the Holy Land, where Northern/Southern Empire armies are filled with Battanians and Khuzaits, but few imperial buccelari or 'authentic imperials', and even the Khuzaits have Fians)
 
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This will:
1. make battles more unique as not every party will have Battanian archers, Khuzait horse archers, Empire & Aserai infantry (over & over and over again).,
2. be more realistic
3. be more realistic
4. make combat more fun (and did I say realistic yet?)
It isn't more realistic when multi-cultural armies were entirely common in the medieval period.
This is a truly great suggestion. Frankly I think a faction should NOT ever give you access you their best troop lines (specifically the noble lines, like Fians) unless you were a SWORN vassal. This would in itself help create a much better balance.
It used to be close to this way, because of the way generating troops went, you needed high relations with a powerful (200+) landowner to get access to them. The AI could cheat a little and grab a few that way but their relations never went up. The reason it changed was because those troops were hard to get. Everyone complained about how much of a chore it made the game to recruit more, so TW changed things so it was any rural notable with no power requirements.
 
It isn't more realistic when multi-cultural armies were entirely common in the medieval period.
Crusaders (or similar medieval period) armies comprising troops from Spanish, Franks, Normans, Saxons, Swiss mercenaries, etc. - sure.
Crusaders (or similar medieval armies) including Fatimid or Saracens - not that likely. Culture, religion, language barriers++. They considered each other heathens or infidels. Forced conscripts maybe, but joining voluntarily?? Not likely at all.

The game has the mechanic that you can recruit from your prisoners, so maybe they get indoctrinated or brainwashed, or just like your campfire humor, and I like that mechanic - my primary method of recruiting high end recruits from other factions.

Pity they allowed that mechanic, for the reasons I mentioned above - more interesting battles against less heterogenous (but actually homogenous similar armies)
 
Crusaders (or similar medieval period) armies comprising troops from Spanish, Franks, Normans, Saxons, Swiss mercenaries, etc. - sure.
Crusaders (or similar medieval armies) including Fatimid or Saracens - not that likely. Culture, religion, language barriers++. They considered each other heathens or infidels. Forced conscripts maybe, but joining voluntarily?? Not likely at all.
Crusader armies (at least after the First Crusade) had Turcopoles.

As far as Bannerlord goes, these guys all speak the same language, have the same religion (none) and share a similar culture.
 
I mean really t5 and t6 units should all be Oh Pee compared to lower tier troops. You should have an overwhelming advantage with a full t5 t6 force compared to the AI's "whatever I got for free on the way to the war because TW doesn't make me do anything but raids and armies" force.
Yeah 100% - I kind of was rambling through my points to @five bucks but the point was both systems (Armor performance, weapon damage, damage "types) are tied together but implemented right we should have relative parity at equal tiers but I 110% still want my army of Elite Cataphracts to be able to immediately decimate a rabble of T1-T4 fillers.

It's not the point of this thread but this also ties into how stupid Morale and Lord AI behavior is. The fact that a Lord with 30 troops will not surrender when facing down a 270 cav-only doom stack is silly. If they do go in battle I'd argue just by the overwhelming force everyone's morale should be so debuffed that the peasants would run off.

Meh, what's the point anyway gents? I have admittedly been very pro-TW having spent a lot of time in engineering & product development in my life, I tried to be empathetic with scope creep and the geopolitical situation in Turkey but damn...I haven't even booted the game up since the 1.8.0 beta.
 
the point is that you should never be able to catch AI lord party of 30 with your 270 horde...only if you manage to ambush them...oops...no ambush in this game 🤔
 
the point is that you should never be able to catch AI lord party of 30 with your 270 horde...only if you manage to ambush them...oops...no ambush in this game 🤔
I can definitely catch 30-man AI parties with my army of ~250?

Do you not keep horses in your inventory or something?
 
the point is that you should never be able to catch AI lord party of 30 with your 270 horde...only if you manage to ambush them...oops...no ambush in this game 🤔
LuciusDomitius... stated a "cav only doomstack" - they will surely run down a smaller infantry party every day of the week.

In fact, it is one of the very annoying features of Bannerlord that infantry only units (like the Forest People, or Lake Rats) can travel at such unbelievable speeds (give that they have to physically carry all their own supplies) and are hard to run down with a cavalry only group (including 50 spare horses in my game).
Just silly really
 
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As far as Bannerlord goes, these guys all speak the same language
IIRC different languages such as Palaic and Dryatic (?) etc., are mentioned. Language barrier therefore probably does exist but is abstracted for the purposes of gameplay when communicating with army leaders, like it is in almost any game set in the real world.

Just look at place names and high-ranking lord titles and it's pretty obvious different languages are used.
have the same religion (none)
"The Sacred Heavens" are alluded to frequently in the Empire and Aserai dialogue, while Khuzaits have some mention of vaguely sounding Mongolian style shamanist religion, the Sturgians have sacred oak groves in their city description, and Battania has its own mythology.
and share a similar culture.
Under what metric? Art, architecture, clothing and armour, music, place naming conventions, weapons used, food eaten, economic focus, all different. The culture descriptions and backstory go out of their way to make them sound different too.

The cultures are evidently quite different which is why we get that massive punishing -3 penalty to loyalty for having a settlement governor of the incorrect culture.

Systems of government are different too - each culture has different default political policies.

And although the game's systems fail to bear this out, rulership systems are different in-story too. Vlandia and S. Empire are hereditary monarchies, N. Empire is like the senatorial Principate/late Republic, W. Empire is like a populist Dominate, Khuzaits/Battania/Aserai are loose confederacies where central authority is barely tolerated or exercised through force, trade or high kingship, and Sturgia is a principality.
Crusader armies (at least after the First Crusade) had Turcopoles.
Yes, but turcopoles were often recruited from native Christians, or even from Europeans. So in that sense they shared major cultural traits with their recruiters. "Turcopole" really just meant "armed in the manner of a Turk". The Crusader states were largely maintained by mercenaries, the Templars and Hospitallers, and a constant influx of Europeans immigrating from the west. Not from local recruitment of people from a totally different culture, for the most part - though it certainly occurred to an extent.
 
This is it...

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...more than two years of ringing that bell and here we are still ringing. How young and naive we used to be...:lol:🎻

Anyone think to... maybe check on that girl ..?
 
You are overcomplicating things here.

It is this simple:

Armor gives terrible protection against arrows, so melee units die before they can reach archers.

Rise the protection of armour against arrows. Now survivability of melee units goes up. Now melee units can reach archers and kill them.

If this makes archers too weak, reduce the protection slightly.

It is THAT simple.

Yeah, your problem is you're changing bow damage to cut, which means you can't tweak the values without messing with melee combat. Also removing the quivers was totally unnecessary.

That problem does not apply if it's pierce damage instead. If archers become too weak with 1.7x pierce damage soak (which they shouldn't), then you reduce it by 0.2x, or something, until they are no longer too weak.

It's balancing 101. It worked in Warband. It is not as hard as you're making it sound. Balance is not an on/off switch between overpowered and underpowered, it's a sliding scale. Numbers can be changed however we want.

Sure, all of these things should happen. But no amount of AI changes will fix archers being overpowered while archers are armor-piercing machine gunners.

It's not that simple and it did not work in Warband. I wonder where this feeling of great battles in Warband comes from. My iconic picture from Warband battles is twohanders (often in player hand) murdering uninterested soldiers from behind.

At times when armor changing mods were available for BL which allowed customization of nearly all aspects (e.g. Custom Damage) I tried many damage factors for pierce, cut and blunt and the different materials, and while it felt better than vanilla it did not make the battles feel good, because the problems of BL (and Warband) are much deeper in the AI than some armor changes, for my taste.

But I hope you will be satisfied when you'll get armor as you wish (you will, sooner or later, not perhaps from TW but from mods).
 
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LuciusDomitius... stated a "cav only doomstack" - they will surely run down a smaller infantry party every day of the week.

In fact, it is one of the very annoying features of Bannerlord that infantry only units (like the Forest People, or Lake Rats) can travel at such unbelievable speeds (give that they have to physically carry all their own supplies) and are hard to run down with a cavalry only group (including 50 spare horses in my game).
Just silly really
First of all, small groups are harder to track. Not the case in this game as we all have a GPS radar google map thingy at our hands. In real, your 270 cavalry party also had supply wagons or mules or whatever that slowed you down. Having horses didn't mean automatically you were faster. You could maybe march longer hours then on foot but this is debatable. European horses didn't feed on grass around the road. That was a unique feature of steppe breeds. You had to carry lots of food for your european breeds. Small group would, in case of detecting large group of 270 cavalry spread up to 1km along the road, just disperse or change their trajectory to avoid it. What would be more realistic is that your scouting party would cross the road with this 30 size group and skirmish, if odds were favourable. But you cant have scout detachments in this game. I would also welcome such small skirmishes as it would be more realistic and gave more chance to small group to even defend itself. And we need ambush mechanics as salt in this game. One of the basic tactics ever.
 
@Brano - there is little tactical difference between a group of 30 carrying supplies for 30 in backpacks, and a group of 270 carrying supplies for 270 on horseback...
Oh wait, that's nonsense.
If you carry supplies on horseback your party travels faster - it is even a game mechanic traveling on the world map.
What is unrealistic is the speed buff groups on foot receive when being tracked (i.e. a group with a tracker with high enough skill to track enemy parties). If the game was 'realistic', it would even add a fatigue debuff to groups having to carry their stuff without pack animals.
 
I would also welcome such small skirmishes as it would be more realistic and gave more chance to small group to even defend itself. And we need ambush mechanics as salt in this game. One of the basic tactics ever.
I totally agree that skirmishes would be awesome. Can the devs implement it? I doubt it.
Unfortunately we currently do have that mechanic in the game in some format. Pretty much every "battle" is really just a series of skirmishes, as significant numerical advantage is only applied at the back end of battles, not the front end. In truth, if you have a significant numerical advantage you can 'swamp' a enemy position, overrun it and scatter the enemy formations. Kind of what cavalry 'should' be able to do (instead of parking for a local whak-a-mole with opposite troops).
What I observe in many battles is my best troops (e.g. Vlandian Banner Knights) are NOT deployed at the start of any encounter, but at the very back end. So all the riff raff mid-order troops wipe each other out, and the side with most troops 'outlast' the enemy.
 
Scouting/detecting is overpowered in this game and it is one of many bad/gimmick designs that plague this franchise since original M&B.
 
It's not that simple and it did not work in Warband.
It DID work in Warband because archers did not machinegun down entire armies before they could even get into the fight.
I wonder where this feeling of great battles in Warband comes from. My iconic picture from Warband battles is twohanders (often in player hand) murdering uninterested soldiers from behind.
That's missing the point. Nobody is saying Warband is perfect. But I am saying archers were not overpowered in Warband, because armor WORKED.
At times when armor changing mods were available for BL which allowed customization of nearly all aspects (e.g. Custom Damage) I tried many damage factors for pierce, cut and blunt and the different materials, and while it felt better than vanilla it did not make the battles feel good, because the problems of BL (and Warband) are much deeper in the AI than some armor changes, for my taste.
There are certainly other things that need fixing, and yes battles won't feel "good" until some of them are fixed. However, battles will definitely not feel good if all those other things get fixed but armor doesn't. We will still be seeing Fians firing into masses of melee troops and racking up hundreds of kills, no matter how good the melee troops' AI is.
But I hope you will be satisfied when you'll get armor as you wish (you will, sooner or later, not perhaps from TW but from mods).
Thank you.
 
Dude play with the realistic battle mod.Its a whole new experience.Dont expect them to fix anything.
Unfortunately RBM does not fix cavalry AI. It turns cav into an odd kind of support unit, where you use well-timed charges to stun the enemy infantry/archers with their hooves while the melee infantry does the killing, a bit like Viking Conquest.

HAs in Warband had the same derpy AI for the same reason, it's hard for the player to feel like Neo from the Matrix when AI archers can do predictive aiming. Last Days of the Third Age makes horse archers less derpy and they're much stronger.. at least until the enemy breaks formation and the HA's "circle around the centre of the enemy shooting arrows and kite enemy cav" script sends them careening into a cluster of spear-wielding orcs/Dunlendings.
 
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