Even battles are not ready for release

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Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I am not going to talk about we need more features, scams, or other similar thing. This thread is about battles (the "best" part of this game), poor balancing and really poor AI... People usually say that only battles work in this game, but the truth is that battles are far for working properly. There are serious balance issues and terrible AI in some cases. Cavalry AI is worse than ever, and archers are still pretty much OP as always, and very little has been done to fix the game balancing for making the game experience more enjoyable. Not even basic balancing principles like cavalry being able to defeat archers in open battlefields work in this game.


(Tested using shieldwall, line formation, splitting in groups, etc... Cavalry always gets crused by archers)

Please, fix cavalry AI, nerf archers and nerf the OP units which everyone who has played this game more than 20 hours knows (Fians and Khans' Guard).
 
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MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Maybe if cav would be able to hit their targets?

But that´s too much to ask for.

But yea, archers are too stonks, everyone knows this. And of course the best archer (fian) will just dominate everything. Maybe TW will reduce their damage by 0.00000000000000001 in the future?
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Maybe if cav would be able to hit their targets?

But that´s too much to ask for.

But yea, archers are too stonks, everyone knows this. And of course the best archer (fian) will just dominate everything. Maybe TW will reduce their damage by 0.00000000000000001 in the future?
Aside from almost all => T5 Archers units being OP, Fians are for sure much stronger than other Archer units. Just check the data released in this video:


Related to T5 archers units, I am going to upload some videos later where you can see T5 archers also obliterating T5 infantry f you do not have 100% shielded infantry units, which is usually the case if you want to bring some two-handed infantry units to the battle, and mix them with you shielded units (which is the case for the AI armies).
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms

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Aurex

Veteran
WB
Please, fix cavalry AI, nerf archers and nerf the OP units which everyone who has played this game more than 20 hours knows (Fians and Khans' Guard).
At this point it'd be better to just redo everything.
Cavalry's AI is beyond retarded. Spears are WORTHLESS. Battle AI in general is atrocious. Lords still suicide by putting 500 men into a tiny circle when there's no good reason they should be doing so. Troop balance is out of whack. 50 Fian Champions can literally solo armies. Melee combat feels worse than Warband's. Same 10 maps over again until you feel like screaming. Leveling perks is like being a 1998 emo with depression and a utility knife. Companions are the most uninteresting NPCs in history.
I love (sarcastically) the reviews praising the battles. Mates, this is a BATTLE SIMULATOR and the BATTLES are garbage. Imagine defending that.
Bannerlord is just like Europa Universalis. Both games are hot garbage but they are successful because there's no competition.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure where all these people asking for new features are coming from, when TW still needs to refine the things in the game begin.

Forget feasts, **** like battles needs fixing. Truer autocalc battles too. Hell, just the general game loop too needs to be different. Like seriously, equipment should not be the endgame goal wtf. Armies and kingdoms should be.
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Honestly, with how overpowered the archers are, it makes the game unenjoyable. It's like they have guns pointed at you.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Grandmaster Knight
RTS Command and camera mods make battles a lot more enjoyable but none for for little jimmy on Consoles. The cavalry not hitting anything amazes me. It seems easy to fix as in some mods just giving them a slightly longer sword and taking away the polearm makes them able to kill, But 2 years in and in unmodded they wiff all the time with little baby swords and no polearm timing. A small amount of heavy Cav is really good with a large amount of firepower backing them up. They break enemies up and turn them all around so your ranged gets faster kills. This of course is equally because of the bad AI that will turn all around and try to chase mounted units, even while under fire.
🤡 💊 🤡 💊 🤡 💊 🤡 💊
🤡💊>>>Worse archer🤡💊
🤡💊>>>Not Sturgian🤡💊🤡💊🤡
🤡💊>>>Still tests in custom battle
🤡💊
🤡💊🤡💊🤡💊🤡💊🤡💊🤡💊🤡
 
Nerfing archers won't fix it - it'll just piss off everyone who likes using archers.

The cavalry AI is absolutely ****ed though. They don't charge at full speed, don't flank, don't spread their line, miss thrust attacks and even with glaives they still pile on top of each other and sit stationary in a line with their sword and shield out (looking at Cataphracts) and get domed by archers. Horse Archer AI is not any better, if they get engaged by cavalry they don't try to retreat and will slow to a trot and get picked off. When they go to encircle forces they are way too close and run into each other.

Doesn't help that formations/captains have no concept of each others positioning, I've had cav charges ruined by running right into my formations. I know tactics was confirmed to make small changes but nothing meaningful and it doesn't matter since you and the enemy general are omnipresent and immediately know the position of the other force so using enfilade/defilade terrain or similar doesn't mean much.

Still missing "target this formation", the OOB stuff was cool but lacks granular control and signaled TW gave up on the other archetypes like Light vs Heavy Cav, Skirmishers and Light vs Heavy Infantry which could've had a lot of utility especially in Army battles. A lack of a native RTS camera doesn't help either, repositioning mid fight is a chore and even if you manage to maneuver your troops it won't matter once AI takes over they just dog pile and vibrate against each other like some mega-monkeypox mating ritual.

Archers only are so OP because it's the simplest AI, they stay mostly static and stretched out. With the ****ed up targeting and ineffectiveness of cavalry charges and AI they are not targeted at all.
 

Ulfhedinn

Sergeant at Arms
Nerfing archers won't fix it - it'll just piss off everyone who likes using archers.

The cavalry AI is absolutely ****ed though. They don't charge at full speed, don't flank, don't spread their line, miss thrust attacks and even with glaives they still pile on top of each other and sit stationary in a line with their sword and shield out (looking at Cataphracts) and get domed by archers. Horse Archer AI is not any better, if they get engaged by cavalry they don't try to retreat and will slow to a trot and get picked off. When they go to encircle forces they are way too close and run into each other.

Doesn't help that formations/captains have no concept of each others positioning, I've had cav charges ruined by running right into my formations. I know tactics was confirmed to make small changes but nothing meaningful and it doesn't matter since you and the enemy general are omnipresent and immediately know the position of the other force so using enfilade/defilade terrain or similar doesn't mean much.

Still missing "target this formation", the OOB stuff was cool but lacks granular control and signaled TW gave up on the other archetypes like Light vs Heavy Cav, Skirmishers and Light vs Heavy Infantry which could've had a lot of utility especially in Army battles. A lack of a native RTS camera doesn't help either, repositioning mid fight is a chore and even if you manage to maneuver your troops it won't matter once AI takes over they just dog pile and vibrate against each other like some mega-monkeypox mating ritual.

Archers only are so OP because it's the simplest AI, they stay mostly static and stretched out. With the ****ed up targeting and ineffectiveness of cavalry charges and AI they are not targeted at all.

+1
 

Ser Jon

Squire
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Nerfing archers won't fix it - it'll just piss off everyone who likes using archers.

The cavalry AI is absolutely ****ed though. They don't charge at full speed, don't flank, don't spread their line, miss thrust attacks and even with glaives they still pile on top of each other and sit stationary in a line with their sword and shield out (looking at Cataphracts) and get domed by archers. Horse Archer AI is not any better, if they get engaged by cavalry they don't try to retreat and will slow to a trot and get picked off. When they go to encircle forces they are way too close and run into each other.

Doesn't help that formations/captains have no concept of each others positioning, I've had cav charges ruined by running right into my formations. I know tactics was confirmed to make small changes but nothing meaningful and it doesn't matter since you and the enemy general are omnipresent and immediately know the position of the other force so using enfilade/defilade terrain or similar doesn't mean much.

Still missing "target this formation", the OOB stuff was cool but lacks granular control and signaled TW gave up on the other archetypes like Light vs Heavy Cav, Skirmishers and Light vs Heavy Infantry which could've had a lot of utility especially in Army battles. A lack of a native RTS camera doesn't help either, repositioning mid fight is a chore and even if you manage to maneuver your troops it won't matter once AI takes over they just dog pile and vibrate against each other like some mega-monkeypox mating ritual.

Archers only are so OP because it's the simplest AI, they stay mostly static and stretched out. With the ****ed up targeting and ineffectiveness of cavalry charges and AI they are not targeted at all.

Pretty much.

Unless they rework the AI for cavalry, nothing they do will help the problem.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
How to fix all the major issues with Bannerlord's singleplayer combat:

* Increase the protection armour gives against pierce damage by 1.7X. Right now bows/crossbows take 4-5 chest hits to kill a fully armored troop. It should be 7-8. This will massively improve the balance of archers because melee troops will be able to get in range to attack without dying.

* Increase the base damage and attack speed of spears. Make the damage penalty for close range attacks with spears less crippling.

* Make cavalry troops with lances use their couching ability more often.

* Nerf the attack speed or damage of glaives.

* Slightly lower the health of all shields.

* Make spearmen/pikemen actually use their spears/pikes by default, instead of their sidearm.

* Make archer AI lead their shots when being circled by horse archers.

* Change the "Loyalty and Honor" perk to only apply to T4+ troops. So that morale actually does something.
Yeah, I'm not sure where all these people asking for new features are coming from, when TW still needs to refine the things in the game begin.

Forget feasts, **** like battles needs fixing.
There was a game called Mount & Blade: Warband, made 10 years ago by a 10x smaller team, which had both functional battles and feasts and many other things.

It is entirely possible to have both.

Many of the commonly requested features need less than a day's worth of work to implement as proven by Bloc. Sometimes even only an hour.
Hell, just the general game loop too needs to be different.
Which is why we're asking for Warband features that made the game loop more enjoyable and less focused on killing bandits, killing doomstacks, and chasing people around.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Nerfing archers won't fix it - it'll just piss off everyone who likes using archers.

The cavalry AI is absolutely ****ed though. They don't charge at full speed, don't flank, don't spread their line, miss thrust attacks and even with glaives they still pile on top of each other and sit stationary in a line with their sword and shield out (looking at Cataphracts) and get domed by archers. Horse Archer AI is not any better, if they get engaged by cavalry they don't try to retreat and will slow to a trot and get picked off. When they go to encircle forces they are way too close and run into each other.

Doesn't help that formations/captains have no concept of each others positioning, I've had cav charges ruined by running right into my formations. I know tactics was confirmed to make small changes but nothing meaningful and it doesn't matter since you and the enemy general are omnipresent and immediately know the position of the other force so using enfilade/defilade terrain or similar doesn't mean much.

Still missing "target this formation", the OOB stuff was cool but lacks granular control and signaled TW gave up on the other archetypes like Light vs Heavy Cav, Skirmishers and Light vs Heavy Infantry which could've had a lot of utility especially in Army battles. A lack of a native RTS camera doesn't help either, repositioning mid fight is a chore and even if you manage to maneuver your troops it won't matter once AI takes over they just dog pile and vibrate against each other like some mega-monkeypox mating ritual.

Archers only are so OP because it's the simplest AI, they stay mostly static and stretched out. With the ****ed up targeting and ineffectiveness of cavalry charges and AI they are not targeted at all.
Archers are so OP because they do the same damage as melee troops but at a distance. It's that simple.

Until archers' stupidly unrealistic and excessive damage to armour is fixed, they will never be balanced.

AI was pretty stupid in Warband too but archers were not OP. Why? Because ARMOUR WORKED
 

MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Archers are so OP because they do the same damage as melee troops but at a distance. It's that simple.

Until archers' stupidly unrealistic and excessive damage to armour is fixed, they will never be balanced.

AI was pretty stupid in Warband too but archers were not OP. Why? Because ARMOUR WORKED
+1
 
There was a game called Mount & Blade: Warband, made 10 years ago by a 10x smaller team, which had both functional battles and feasts and many other things.

It is entirely possible to have both.

Many of the commonly requested features need less than a day's worth of work to implement as proven by Bloc. Sometimes even only an hour.

Which is why we're asking for Warband features that made the game loop more enjoyable and less focused on killing bandits, killing doomstacks, and chasing people around.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying those things aren't needed. Just that I can't help but feel like people are forgetting that what we already have just isn't there yet.
 

Madijeis

Sergeant
WBNW
I really don't think the damage archers deal is the main problem, it's cavalry being bad at running them down that's the issue. Unless they're in numerical superiority, a cavalry charge will, at most, keep the archers pinned down. If numerical superiority is achieved then a slow melee ensues between archers (who deal no damage in melee) and cavalry (who can't hit people in melee) until the infantry fight is done. Basically, cavalry only exists to make infantry vulnerable to archers or screen infantry from the archers.

Also Christ those Fians bruh
 

Clsy

Knight
WBWF&S
* Make spearmen/pikemen actually use their spears/pikes by default, instead of their sidearm.
Would have actually solve the whole **** show but apparently it was changed prior to release per MP testers demand and Taleworlds made some last minute rework to please the competitive scene so it end up with the current version spear we got in vanilla. They also have some working spear formation but was removed because it was too effective, they clearly have a ability to make it work but nothing seems to past their quality control.
 
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