European Sword and Shield Tournament 2 - ESST 2 - Do Your ****ing Duels Edition

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Zoyka

Squire
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Watly said:
So if I post something like "Arni = Menethil" on nc suggestions, I can get Arni banned from NC????
If Arni was caught using fake nick during tournament even once, hed get banned, yes. Oh wait, it did already happen. If someone was caught using wallhack even once, hed get banned as well. My last message to you, stop embarassing yourself, you either don't have enough intellect level to argue with me and prove your point or just too mad to accept simple facts and logic. Either way, it is a waste of time to repeat same thing over and over and reply to you.
 

Terrible_Swordsman

Master Knight
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Cheating in real life is significantly different than using a hack in a game. Using something like steroids has a permanent effect on your bodies structure, things like bone density and muscle tissue. Comparing that to a hack in a game is a ****ing joke. Idk if this dude cheated or not, I'll be 100% honest I haven't even bothered to look so I have no dog in this fight, but comparing real life cheating to a video game is an absolute joke. Using a hack at one point in a game is ****ing pathetic, but it shouldn't result in a ban from everything.
 

theDonut

Squire
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Gibby Jr said:
Zoyka said:
I will not bother watching your video or make guesses if he uses cheats now or doesnt, simply because it should not matter. He got caught cheating just recently on multiple occasions. When players in CS GO get caught cheating, they are banned, when sportsmen get caught using roids, they get banned, when people do crimes in real life they are being punished,
It's like cheating in CS:GO in a practice 1v1 with someone but never using it in tournaments; nobody cares, because it's not the main mode, and it's just annoying for the one person they're playing against - there's nothing at stake so it doesn't matter. Maybe if this were in scrims there could be some argument that it's not ok but it this was literally just a random ft7 on Ludus. It's totally irrelevant.
Wrong. In CS, professional players caught cheating in any way, shape or form by VAC get indefinitely banned from the scene;  and in before the "but we're not pros" argument I see coming: whether there's money at stake or not is irrelevant. We all play competitively, which is the reason hacks are not allowed. And yes, many people care, clearly not you.
There's no guarantee that someone who has cheated once in a competitive environment won't ever cheat again, especially if the one who does it is not a kid, which is why people should care. But in this small community most people are fake, biased f00ls who would never go against their online friends.
 

momcilo94

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVCWF&S
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NATTRAMN 1 - 7 Momchilo

Good fights!

Anyway, about the cheating discussion. I find it that the accusations of people without concrete evidence leads to nothing but drama and further pointless arguments. Watching the video itself, it is entirely possible to pull that level of blocking with the amount of hours that Darklight has and the experience under his belt. It is also very difficult to distinguish real auto block from high level blocking, as the player who has mastered defence will follow almost every single attack and will use prediction too, both of these can appear as cheating. It is the sad truth that without obvious evidence or admission of guilt we cannot and shouldn't act upon these accusations because in the end it will become a witch hunt. Our options are either developing some kind of anti cheating detection method via judges which would require constant third party during duels, or hope that some kind of anti cheat system will be put in the game. My hopes are that Bannerlord will have such features.

However,

Gibby Jr said:
Using autoblock on Ludus is very different to using it in a tournament.
I completely disagree with this. There is no difference between using cheating methods in public play and competitive play. If we are to nurture a healthy community we should have a strict and firm attitude against any kind of cheating in any kind of form. Using cheating methods to gain advantage over players without their permission is something that should be frown upon. There are always consequences for the health of the community and the game caused by cheaters. The only way I could see it tolerated is if in closed private server between two parties that agree to it. If someone admits to cheating even in public non competitive play, they should be eliminated from any future competitive participation. Honestly, that kind of person should not even be allowed to further participate in multiplayer.
 

Guaccmoleboy

On probation
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If you put this instance of cheating in context with how previous tournaments have handled cheating, Gibby's decision is not too outlandish, especially considering the large amount of players who have been convicted of cheating and who were still able to play in future tournaments. Although I am still suspicious in Darklight's autoblock based off of the video, completely banning him based off of an isolated instance of autoblock from a long time ago on a public server should not be a cause of permanent ban from this tournament and future tournaments. More concrete evidence would have to be gathered.
 

Zoyka

Squire
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Gibby Jr said:
Why don't we use Rayden's words to analyse the validity of your statement:
Rayden_ said:
it's been smooth and best tournament so far.
Rayden clearly wasn't aware of this, but I was running the EU side of WPL2 entirely by myself until the knockout stage. His unbiased opinion is that the segment of the tournament I ran was the smoothest and best so far.
It is hillarious how you go back to that subforum and are trying to find comments that compliment you. If you were good admin, you wouldnt be kicked. You tried to abuse your rights as an admin, you got punished for it.

No. You shouldnt talk about CS GO, because it only proves my point. PRO players do get banned if they cheat, it doesnt matter when or how. Or even if it was only once(ex. KQLY). And it shouldnt. See, in real life we have presumption of innocence. In games it is a presumption of guilt. If a player gets caught cheating, it is presumable that he was caught only once but cheated before and would cheat after if he wasnt caught. So don't try to dodge it by using "just random ft7", because it wasnt. He used it against BD as well, BD admitted it. Then some time later he used it against you. Are you going to pretend that he didnt use it at all in between?

Will be my last post to you as well, because you dont have balls to admit your **** up and keep dodging my arguements and being in denial. I am tired of saying same things over and over. Just stop embarassing yourself further. Even guys who hate me, admit that my position is fair. Let me repeat the known facts as a conclusion.
-Darklight has been using cheats this fall.
-On multiple occasions.
-He was caught by gibby and warned.
-He wasnt banned only because he was a friend of gibby, if it was me, gibby would ban me. Gibby doesn't dany that as well.
-The fact that dakrlight was cheating wasnt made public(it would be fair to make it public so others would watch out for him), it was just their dirty little secret until now when gibby out of his stupidty and obvliousness wrote that.
-Darklight wasnt banned on server, from any tournaments or ashamed by anyone. Now this well-known admitted cheater autoblocker hosts 2nd biggest sword and shield duel tournament in warband history. Together with another known ddoser arni. This is surreal, isnt it.


Rake said:
Cheating in real life is significantly different than using a hack in a game. Using something like steroids has a permanent effect on your bodies structure, things like bone density and muscle tissue. Comparing that to a hack in a game is a **** joke. Idk if this dude cheated or not, I'll be 100% honest I haven't even bothered to look so I have no dog in this fight, but comparing real life cheating to a video game is an absolute joke. Using a hack at one point in a game is **** pathetic, but it shouldn't result in a ban from everything.
You should have probably read then. Your argument is invalid. Steroid users are being punished because by using steroids, they gain a forbidden advantage. Same thing in warband.


 

Zoyka

Squire
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Guaccmoleboy said:
If you put this instance of cheating in context with how previous tournaments have handled cheating,
Can you elaborate a little further how previous tournaments handled autoblockers? As far as I know this Darklight is the only autoblocker that was caught red-handed. There were other autoblockers that were caught and proved to be cheating, they were all banned on the servers they played on, publicly ashamed and none of them participated in any tournament ever.

Guaccmoleboy said:
Gibby's decision is not too outlandish, especially considering the large amount of players who have been convicted of cheating and who were still able to play in future tournaments. Although I am still suspicious in Darklight's autoblock based off of the video, completely banning him based off of an isolated instance of autoblock from a long time ago on a public server should not be a cause of permanent ban from this tournament and future tournaments. More concrete evidence would have to be gathered.
It would be cause of a ban in any other competitive game,I gave examples above. Especially when it is so hard to catch cheaters in the act. More evidence should not be needed, im repeating myself again, present does not and should not matter. Cheaters should be punished.

 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
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Zoyka said:
-He wasnt banned only because he was a friend of gibby, if it was me, gibby would ban me. Gibby doesn't dany that as well.
-The fact that dakrlight was cheating wasnt made public(it would be fair to make it public so others would watch out for him), it was just their dirty little secret until now when gibby out of his stupidty and obvliousness wrote that.
-Darklight wasnt banned on server, from any tournaments or ashamed by anyone. Now this well-known admitted cheater autoblocker hosts 2nd biggest sword and shield duel tournament in warband history. Together with another known ddoser arni. This is surreal, isnt it.
- Darklight isn't my friend. I would have warned you just as I warned him and just the same had he refused I would have banned him.
- It wasn't "made public" because it was an irrelevant random ft7. I've been honest about it to anyone that has asked me.
- Why should someone be "shamed" for using it in that scenario? In a scrim, tournament duel or tournament match it would be different but since he was using it privately against me, and it didn't really bother me other than me telling him not to use it, there's no problem. People signed up to the tournament knowing Arni was a host and have the freedom to drop out if they suspect Darklight of autoblocking if they want.

Zoyka said:
Can you elaborate a little further how previous tournaments handled autoblockers? As far as I know this Darklight is the only autoblocker that was caught red-handed. There were other autoblockers that were caught and proved to be cheating, they were all banned on the servers they played on, publicly ashamed and none of them participated in any tournament ever.
Why are you talking about autoblockers being caught in tournaments? Darklight hasn't been "caught" in this tournament or any other, there's just some - quite justified - suspicion that he's using it. As guacc said there is not enough evidence to justify banning him from anything.
 

Scar

Prussian Immortal
Marquis
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You can't use an instance (let alone suspicion) of rule-breaking from Ludus or IG Battlegrounds to ban someone from a tournament. The only way to ban someone from a tournament is to provide clear evidence of rule-breaking in said tournament. It has always been handled like this, and it should always be handled like this. There have been numerous cases of misbehaviour on popular servers such as Ludus or IG Battlegrounds, but the concerned individuals were never banned on this basis from any tournament.

Oh, and Zoyka: Funny how you come here now and write about hypocrisy. If we would treat cases like you just suggested, you would be the first person to be banned from any kind of tournament for the **** you pulled of on IG Battlegrounds, alongside with some others such as Rempica. Fortunately for you, we don't.
 

momcilo94

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVCWF&S
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Scar said:
You can't use an instance (let alone suspicion) of rule-breaking from Ludus or IG Battlegrounds to ban someone from a tournament. The only way to ban someone from a tournament is to provide clear evidence of rule-breaking in said tournament. It has always been handled like this, and it should always be handled like this. There have been numerous cases of misbehaviour on popular servers such as Ludus or IG Battlegrounds, but the concerned individuals were never banned on this basis from any tournament.

Oh, and Zoyka: Funny how you come here now and write about hypocrisy. If we would treat cases like you just suggested, you would be the first person to be banned from any kind of tournament for the **** you pulled of on IG Battlegrounds, alongside with some others such as Rempica. Fortunately for you, we don't.
The discussion here is about cheating not misbehavior. If you allow confirmed cheaters to play you are doing the community harm. No matter where they cheated, public play or competitive there should be permanent consequences. There should be zero tolerance for cheaters.
 

Zoyka

Squire
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Scar said:
You can't use an instance (let alone suspicion) of rule-breaking from Ludus or IG Battlegrounds to ban someone from a tournament. The only way to ban someone from a tournament is to provide clear evidence of rule-breaking in said tournament. It has always been handled like this, and it should always be handled like this. There have been numerous cases of misbehaviour on popular servers such as Ludus or IG Battlegrounds, but the concerned individuals were never banned on this basis from any tournament.

Oh, and Zoyka: Funny how you come here now and write about hypocrisy. If we would treat cases like you just suggested, you would be the first person to be banned from any kind of tournament for the **** you pulled of on IG Battlegrounds, alongside with some others such as Rempica. Fortunately for you, we don't.
"rule-breaking", "misbehaviour" nice choice of words. Then you go on with useless rant about past experience. And then you dare to compare me and my ban on ig_bg for INSULTS with an admitted autoblocker.  Like we should be treated same and Im "fortunate" that we arent. I understand that my signature makes you suffer, but there must be limits. There are literally 0 cases of somewhat reputable players being caught using aimbat/wallhack/autoblock outside of tournaments, so don't you dare to try and compare MISBEHAVIOUR and RULEBREAKING on ig bg with AUTOBLOCK/AIMBOT/WALLHACK. Your attempts of comparrisons only show bias and ignorance. People like you, watly and gibby trying your best to dodge the arguments and making one lame excuse after another out of simple hatred for me are just plain disgusting.
 

Bauglir

Master Knight
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momcilo94 said:
Scar said:
You can't use an instance (let alone suspicion) of rule-breaking from Ludus or IG Battlegrounds to ban someone from a tournament. The only way to ban someone from a tournament is to provide clear evidence of rule-breaking in said tournament. It has always been handled like this, and it should always be handled like this. There have been numerous cases of misbehaviour on popular servers such as Ludus or IG Battlegrounds, but the concerned individuals were never banned on this basis from any tournament.

Oh, and Zoyka: Funny how you come here now and write about hypocrisy. If we would treat cases like you just suggested, you would be the first person to be banned from any kind of tournament for the **** you pulled of on IG Battlegrounds, alongside with some others such as Rempica. Fortunately for you, we don't.
The discussion here is about cheating not misbehavior. If you allow confirmed cheaters to play you are doing the community harm. No matter where they cheated, public play or competitive there should be permanent consequences. There should be zero tolerance for cheaters.
Playing in two different teams in a tournament is also considered cheating, this has never ended up in a permanent ban
 

Zoyka

Squire
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Bauglir said:
momcilo94 said:
Scar said:
You can't use an instance (let alone suspicion) of rule-breaking from Ludus or IG Battlegrounds to ban someone from a tournament. The only way to ban someone from a tournament is to provide clear evidence of rule-breaking in said tournament. It has always been handled like this, and it should always be handled like this. There have been numerous cases of misbehaviour on popular servers such as Ludus or IG Battlegrounds, but the concerned individuals were never banned on this basis from any tournament.

Oh, and Zoyka: Funny how you come here now and write about hypocrisy. If we would treat cases like you just suggested, you would be the first person to be banned from any kind of tournament for the **** you pulled of on IG Battlegrounds, alongside with some others such as Rempica. Fortunately for you, we don't.
The discussion here is about cheating not misbehavior. If you allow confirmed cheaters to play you are doing the community harm. No matter where they cheated, public play or competitive there should be permanent consequences. There should be zero tolerance for cheaters.
Playing in two different teams in a tournament is also considered cheating, this has never ended up in a permanent ban

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,339490.0.html
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,348780.0.html
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,344077.0.html
 

Guaccmoleboy

On probation
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Zoyka said:
Guaccmoleboy said:
If you put this instance of cheating in context with how previous tournaments have handled cheating,
Can you elaborate a little further how previous tournaments handled autoblockers? As far as I know this Darklight is the only autoblocker that was caught red-handed. There were other autoblockers that were caught and proved to be cheating, they were all banned on the servers they played on, publicly ashamed and none of them participated in any tournament ever.
Arni would be a good example because he's ddosed and generally been malicious in the past but now he's unbanned from all tournaments. Autoblocking would be much less of an offense in comparison to a ddos so...
 

Apollo 🏹

Count
WB
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Bauglir said:
momcilo94 said:
Scar said:
You can't use an instance (let alone suspicion) of rule-breaking from Ludus or IG Battlegrounds to ban someone from a tournament. The only way to ban someone from a tournament is to provide clear evidence of rule-breaking in said tournament. It has always been handled like this, and it should always be handled like this. There have been numerous cases of misbehaviour on popular servers such as Ludus or IG Battlegrounds, but the concerned individuals were never banned on this basis from any tournament.

Oh, and Zoyka: Funny how you come here now and write about hypocrisy. If we would treat cases like you just suggested, you would be the first person to be banned from any kind of tournament for the **** you pulled of on IG Battlegrounds, alongside with some others such as Rempica. Fortunately for you, we don't.
The discussion here is about cheating not misbehavior. If you allow confirmed cheaters to play you are doing the community harm. No matter where they cheated, public play or competitive there should be permanent consequences. There should be zero tolerance for cheaters.
Playing in two different teams in a tournament is also considered cheating, this has never ended up in a permanent ban
Didn't Natasha/Monopolish/George do this?
 

Bauglir

Master Knight
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Zoyka said:
Bauglir said:
Playing in two different teams in a tournament is also considered cheating, this has never ended up in a permanent ban
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,339490.0.html
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,348780.0.html
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,344077.0.html
 

momcilo94

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBNWVCWF&S
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Prince Apollo said:
Bauglir said:
momcilo94 said:
Scar said:
You can't use an instance (let alone suspicion) of rule-breaking from Ludus or IG Battlegrounds to ban someone from a tournament. The only way to ban someone from a tournament is to provide clear evidence of rule-breaking in said tournament. It has always been handled like this, and it should always be handled like this. There have been numerous cases of misbehaviour on popular servers such as Ludus or IG Battlegrounds, but the concerned individuals were never banned on this basis from any tournament.

Oh, and Zoyka: Funny how you come here now and write about hypocrisy. If we would treat cases like you just suggested, you would be the first person to be banned from any kind of tournament for the **** you pulled of on IG Battlegrounds, alongside with some others such as Rempica. Fortunately for you, we don't.
The discussion here is about cheating not misbehavior. If you allow confirmed cheaters to play you are doing the community harm. No matter where they cheated, public play or competitive there should be permanent consequences. There should be zero tolerance for cheaters.
Playing in two different teams in a tournament is also considered cheating, this has never ended up in a permanent ban
Didn't Natasha/Monopolish/George do this?
I am talking about software cheats that modify the game and give unfair disadvantage to people over actual veterans who put thousands of hours in learning and mastering the game. It takes a huge amount of effort and hours of experience to become a skilful fighter. The examples you listed are not the same. I will use the word hacking from now on, to make the difference clearer. For different levels of rule breaking, there should be different punishment. We cannot equalize everything, there must be objective judgement involved.

I actually do not understand how people can support casual use of hacks. I am unable to comprehend the logic in defending that kind of action. I am not talking about private sessions between two players who both agreed to it. I am talking about public sessions like the Ludus where the victim can be another player who is unaware of this. A player who might be permanently discouraged from playing the game if they encounter such behaviour. You cause the harm to the community, which in turn affects the game. Using any kind of software to cause this kind of harm should not be forgiveable. If the community is lenient in this regard it will only encourage future abuse. There should be zero tolerance.

 

Alene

The Queen of Diamonds
Archduke
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Let's keep the thread on-topic, which is this tournament, not others. Furthermore, admins have deemed Darklight not guilty of auto-blocking in this tournament, so let that subject rest as well. There is no need for more drama.
 

Charlini

Master Knight
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You keep coming out barking everytime with non-sense arguments while all proof you offered about darklight's cheating was bull**** that top players confirmed that it's not an autoblock, yet when you see that you can't attach yourself to that excuse anymore, you choose another path, hate and that old 'autoblock on ludus' topic that only Gibby accussed about months ago.

Im getting tired of this stupid drama and thread, I'd not ignore a cheater in the community, but Darklight's not a cheater, you'll keep making up excuses and finding out 'proof' which is just stupid stuff that you can barely understand what it shows, because in the end most of the guys who accused him are just big mouths who lack of respect and believe themselves genius about the game, people that believes their opinion is the only valid one and that their thought is the right one, while they have no clue about what they're speaking about and should limit themselves to listen to actual better players that proved to know how this game works in different occasions, and end up making intelligent conclusions that explain what some other people consider cheating. These explanations are true powerful knowledge, and perhaps if you limited yourselves to play and try to get a better understanding on your own problems, you wouldn't embarrass yourself ignoring people who knows what they're speaking about(Meaning to those who Arni spoke with to reach the decision) and trying to get another player filled up of **** that he doesn't deserve.

Show some respect to Darklight and stop spamming this thread with the same stupid arguments over and over if you lack of solid proof or evidence. Everyone has ever thought that another player is cheating, that doesnt give you the right to try and embarrass him as you dislike him everytime you get the chance. Get some solid proof or evidence when you want to accuse someone of cheating while not even you got the tools or means to know if you're 100% sure that he's cheating, it's disgusting and proves how toxic this community is. Bring your pointless messages elsewhere and get the topic back to its main purpose, feel free to come and spam again when you understand or can prove what you're speaking about.
 

Terrible_Swordsman

Master Knight
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Zoyka said:
Rake said:
Cheating in real life is significantly different than using a hack in a game. Using something like steroids has a permanent effect on your bodies structure, things like bone density and muscle tissue. Comparing that to a hack in a game is a **** joke. Idk if this dude cheated or not, I'll be 100% honest I haven't even bothered to look so I have no dog in this fight, but comparing real life cheating to a video game is an absolute joke. Using a hack at one point in a game is **** pathetic, but it shouldn't result in a ban from everything.
You should have probably read then. Your argument is invalid. Steroid users are being punished because by using steroids, they gain a forbidden advantage. Same thing in warband.
No, its not the same. Taking steroids IRL literally alters your body, in some ways permanently, that will give you a massive edge in most sports, thats why most steroid users are banned for life. All I'm saying is that using a hack once doesn't permanently give you an advantage. That being said, anyone who has cheated in the past should really be observed under a microscope.

Basically, assuming a past offender might be cheating is okay. Assuming a past offender will always cheat and should be barred from playing is not okay.

Again I'm not talking about darklight, idk if he cheated its not for me to say. I'm just saying that the way we as a community handle cheaters should be logical and factual rather than based on opinion and emotion.
 
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