SP - Player, NPCs & Troops Equipment should vary mainly with troop role, not with troop tier

[The Yogi]

I would make much more sense if troops were issued with reasonably good equipment from the start, and then improved mainly in their skills, leading to higher pay.

This is especially true for the "recruits", which are ridiculously under-equipped at present. At the very least, they should have the same shield and weapons as they will later in the upgrade tree. But from the moment they branch out into different types - infantry, archers or cavalry - then they should get basically the same gear - perhaps with minor additions - at all tiers.

On a side note, top-tier infantry should not be as heavily armoured as it is now - historically, there were not many infantry troops armoured like heavy knights, mainly because infantry has to march with all that **** and becomes exhausted, whereas knights get to ride their horses instead. For example, I'd let legionnary armour be the top Empire infantry armour (for Legionary and Menavlion alike).

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

No, I don't think that's how it works at all.

Are you really serious in thinking that your average peasant levy should be as well equipped as a somewhat seasoned sergeant? Also keep in mind that passive skill bonuses are REALLY small, and that what actually matters is equipment. So having everyone where the same **** means you won't see a difference.

IMO, the recruit level is supposed to be the barest minimum. Literally plucked from the village without so much as being inducted or equipped. Its just that leveling in BL is super slow, unlike Warband where you could passively get your recruits into actual fighting shape within a day.

And real or not, the idea just sounds lame. I want my elite troops to look elite, and the chaff to look like chaff. It looks boring and the fighting won't feel as varied.

 

[The Yogi]

I see what you mean, but I tend to think of peasants as that first stage, before even a minimum of training. Recruits have been issued some equipment, it makes no sense that that would not include a simple shield and weapon, like a spear. You would not send troops into battle without at least that. Also, I did not propose that recruits should have a full panoply, because from them we branch out into different troop classes. But with the current system, you can’t have elite light infantry/skirmishers, or elite light cavalry. Therefore I’d prefer it that each branch get most of their gear from the start.

EDIT: I think part of the disagreement comes from the point of view - you're looking at this from a middle ages europan perspective, where indeed a lord would levy a mob of peasants armed with whatever they could get their hands on, whereas I'm considering a late Roman setting where recruits would join a professional army and be equipped at the expense of the state with their basic gear.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Peasants in Bannerlord don't ever turn into proper soldiers. Recruits are the only source for that. IMO, recruits aren't necessarily meant to be sent to battle against anything besides some looters, but again the game fails to reflect that. If the leadership skill was actually good enough to train troops within a day or so, we'd actually see battle ready armies, not whatever mob AI lords end up with.

With how upgrading and troop trees work, you can't branch out anymore than two per unit, so you can't exactly have your recruit path lead towards skirmishing, archery, cavalry or infantry.

If the factions (namely the Empire) really did reflect late Roman things, then I'd understand. But for the most part its nothing like it. The Empire has explicitly abandoned whatever old 'Calradic' legion style they once had, and instead make use of the same feudal esque system everyone else uses.

Its kind of boring and I did wish factions were more distinct in their styles, but it is what it is.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I think having the equipment be mostly consistent between tiers is a little bit extreme, but I definitely think "recruits" in their current state shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't make sense that these peasants can afford a sword but not a shield, and the AI never uses them properly so you get shieldwalls comprised mostly of flesh. It's ludicrous.

The whole idea of training guys up from basically being sub-looter strength is a relic from when MnB was a fantasy RPG. I think the player should be forced to do this while they're just a random nobody, but the moment they become a lord the system should switch to recruiting full batallions of already capable troops.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

I think having the equipment be mostly consistent between tiers is a little bit extreme, but I definitely think "recruits" in their current state shouldn't be in the game. It doesn't make sense that these peasants can afford a sword but not a shield, and the AI never uses them properly so you get shieldwalls comprised mostly of flesh. It's ludicrous.

The whole idea of training guys up from basically being sub-looter strength is a relic from when MnB was a fantasy RPG. I think the player should be forced to do this while they're just a random nobody, but the moment they become a lord the system should switch to recruiting full batallions of already capable troops.

Tbf, recruits now don't around with swords everywhere. Looking at imperial recruits, who were chock full of them before, they now run around with peasant tools, with maybe a sword here and there. I think it can be justified sort of, like maybe that sword was an heirloom of their old legionary grand pappy. Or because of the wealth of the Empire, along with the dangerous, having a sword as a self defence tool isn't weird. A citizen wouldn't necessarily carry around a shield if they're just out and about.

I could be remembering things wrong, or getting mods mixed into my experience, but in Warband you never really got too many tier 1 recruits. By the time you go about a recruitment drive across fiefs, the trainer skill turns your fresh meat into tier 2s that look a lot more appropriate for the battlefield.

I think recruits are fine as they are. Its the Leadership skill that needs work, its so weak and for some reason TW thinks its fine that training tier 1 troops through a literal fight.

Oh and the party templates in game are stupid. The armies that lords respawn with have way too many recruits. They should be swapped with a small, but elite retinue style force.