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Need More Info Endless Wars and AI decision to keep pursuing it

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Version number
1.6.3
Branch
Main
Modded/unmodded
Yes, I used mods.

Sarsante

Recruit
Summary: Playing a late campaign (over day 2k) kinda sucessfully for a first campaign AI started to declare war on me non stop. I'm Vlandia king and AI started to have endless wars declared agasint me. I turned cheat mode on to test AI behaviour when I propose peace and the result of the testing it's weird. It seems more casualties and conquering their fiefs increase their will to pursue the war even when they're heavily outnumbered and clearly losing it because the tribute price keep going up. I guess this is a bug that makes AI declares wars non stop including suicidal ones (ie they've 4k men vs 20k men kingdom).
How to Reproduce: Let AI declare war on you and rush to conquer their fiefs, tribute price to peace out will increase despite they losing the war, which indicates more they lose less willing they're to end the war which makes no sense.
Have you used cheats and if so which: yes ctrl+alt+f4 to win battles
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Computer Specs:
OS: W10
GPU: GTX 1080
GPU Driver Version: latest
CPU: i7 7700k
RAM: 32 GB
Motherboard: Asus Z270F
Storage Device (HDD/SSD): SSD Samsung 860 EVO
 

MArdA TaleWorlds

Community Support & Localization
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M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Forwarded to the QA team for further investigation. We will reach out again if we need more information. Thanks for reporting and sorry for any inconvenience!
 

Sarsante

Recruit
Forwarded to the QA team for further investigation. We will reach out again if we need more information. Thanks for reporting and sorry for any inconvenience!
Thanks!

Please let me know if the QA team needs anything because I've worked in QA in the past so I know sometimes we just can't reproduce it.
 

Zorion_no

Veteran
I dont think its a bug as much as its a feature.
But in all the posts made about the topic that I've seen for ppl who suffer from this, the devs who are in the know dont seem to respond.
And they resolve into nothing.
Hopefully you get some answers.

Overall from my observations is that from what I can see in the menu of the kingdomes is that you are at war with EVERYONE.

Meaning that on average each of theese kingdomes have the same amount of lords as your faction to lead armies.
Now if you combine all the forces that they have, vs your 20k power, they will be higher than yours.

The same issue is when its 1 v 1 kingdomes, and they never go for peace, as they instead hire mercenary companies.
Thus prolonging the war instead of makeing the logical sense and go for peace.

Example in my plays I've had wars vs kingdomes that had 10+ of the companies in their employ.
They where loosing all battles and more and more land, but they never wanted peace.

What they need to add in is caps on the amount of mercs kingdomes can have 3 or 5 at tops.
(remember each company have 4 lords, so meaning if they have 3 thats 12 more lords, at 5 its 20 lords).

Also they should add in some attrition/will to fight, based on loss of land or loss of big battles in the field.

Now how have I come to this conclusions, well I've spent crazy amount of hrs into some of the games, and I observe a pattern.
Also in some of the games for testing I've had the theory about the amount of lords being the issue - execute them.
While it will get you hated, even among your own lords, "its worth it" in terms of the experiment.
No prisoners just execute and you'll see that they either do 2 things, loose cause of no more lords in the kingdome(wiped of the map) or they suddenly get a higher will for peace.

The core issue is that the ai as far as I can tell is set to gank you like that to prevent the effect that is in play, your kingdome is "too big".

Also try to just retreat back to starting lands and just let it all be reclaimed by the other factions.

Then you'll see they make peace with you and go back to declaring war on eachother.

Keep in mind the executing part makes it "impossible" to recruit new lords into your kingdome though.

There needs to be much better mechanics imo for peace than it currently is, and from what I've seen that modders can do there is(note I dont use mods during Early Access to get the gamedate/observations without the mods causeing their own issues).

I'm hopeing that the mechanics that is set to warmongering to get data etc, and that this isnt the final form of war/peace, but it dont matter cause once the game is released I'll fix "issues" by mods (*issues may be gamedesign I dont like for instance).
 

Doofus

Veteran
Yeah, to summarize Bannerlords: The more you are winning, the more the opponent wants from you to stop the war. The more you are losing, the more eager your own lords are to accept peace. Your lords hate it when you are winning and the enemy lords love it when you are winning.
 

Sarsante

Recruit
I understand as being a way to not allow your kingdom to get "too big" but it should have some limits mainly because of 2 things:

1 - every month have 4 or 5 factions declaring war on you leads to a very boring experience. Yeah, it's fun for the first couple hours then it becomes very frustrating and just annoying fighting non stop for 15 hours of gameplay. Someone declares war and before your army gets there and besiege one fief, you're spammed by 3 other factions declaring war.

2 - it should make more sense if/when they declare war. A faction with 4-5k men should not be willing to fight a faction that has 20k men. also a faction that doesnt even have border with your kingdom and it's far weaker (7k vs 20k) shouldnt just declare war, makes no sense.

Current state of my map: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/885996944156143691/908507802245431346/unknown.png

Southern Empire declared war and went besiege Argoron. Why?

Aserai loves with passion Thractorea Castle, but ignores the town and the castle owned by Western Empire on their way. Why?

Their moves even if it's intended to only control player growth should make some sense

What happens all the time, even if I peace out all of them paying 5k tribute a month tops later: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/908357989830885406/908533632614953000/ok.png
 

Zorion_no

Veteran
I understand as being a way to not allow your kingdom to get "too big" but it should have some limits mainly because of 2 things:

1 - every month have 4 or 5 factions declaring war on you leads to a very boring experience. Yeah, it's fun for the first couple hours then it becomes very frustrating and just annoying fighting non stop for 15 hours of gameplay. Someone declares war and before your army gets there and besiege one fief, you're spammed by 3 other factions declaring war.

2 - it should make more sense if/when they declare war. A faction with 4-5k men should not be willing to fight a faction that has 20k men. also a faction that doesnt even have border with your kingdom and it's far weaker (7k vs 20k) shouldnt just declare war, makes no sense.

Current state of my map: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/885996944156143691/908507802245431346/unknown.png

Southern Empire declared war and went besiege Argoron. Why?

Aserai loves with passion Thractorea Castle, but ignores the town and the castle owned by Western Empire on their way. Why?

Their moves even if it's intended to only control player growth should make some sense

What happens all the time, even if I peace out all of them paying 5k tribute a month tops later: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/908357989830885406/908533632614953000/ok.png

Basically for those of us who suffer from the "endless war or chain wars" with little to no peace - it just tanks the fun once you hit that spot.
Take a look at your power, and typically you'll notice it happend when your faction hits a certain point.

The problem is that once you hit the sweetspot, the other factions tend to be less at war with eachother and instead gank up on you.
While its "nice" in one way to counter the power a player give to a faction, and thus over time will be more and more powerful - thus steamrolling, it also breaks "immersion" or fun.

Need to put more emphasis on peace in late game aswell, specially in terms of that "power" rating not being "proper".

As in the first example if you look at the amount of clans in the kingdome of the op, he have just the starting clans there, and so do most of the enemy.

And thats what should be put more to the kingdomes decision, amount of lords available to field armies.
Atm you fill up the dungones with 20-30 of them, and yet no peace, cause they have so many to take from.
(specially when you are in a 1v1 and they have 10 mercs.. so 40 lords extra..)

While we still have much more land and are winning each battle, they just dont give up, which kind of actually fuels the snowball effect unless the players just "stops careing" and let the progress fall, and thus you get weak, and they want peace.

Dial down the bloodlust for the winning sides imo.
In rl you would have something called "overstretching" you can ask Napoleon how that played out in Russia for instance.

The way the faction power bases it on the cities/castles isnt "good enough" it should take into account number of lords to protect it aswell, so the winning would be more keen on peace to "stabilize the progress".

Ideally also dial down the "loyalty" of the lords, I mean 10 years without a fief that some of them have had, and yet they havent defected to other kingdomes make no sense to me.
 

Zorion_no

Veteran
Are you still experiencing this issue on the latest version of the game?

I've noticed an improvment in 1.70 Beta, but only to a point, still the same if you hit a "threshold" you wont get much peace.
Note that In this current play, started after the last hotfix, the AI have been that much more keen to want peace quicker - so we've not hit that "threshold as of yet".

Mixed of our faction also hireing mercs now and have been since the last patch, and that so far the AI havent hired 10 + merc companies, so far more "balanced" with 2-5 of them.

Still though, we need to have a 3rd faction declare war most of the time to get peace, unless you really decimate the enemy in quick sucession.
Basically if they have starting power at war of 7k, they will not want peace until their power is 3,5k or below.
Which is "dumb" since that means basically all the power is based of their garrisons more or less, and not really of the troops in the field.

But yah so far its been a "dream" in this play, where I've been pinching my arm, no war yet?
and I've actually found myself haveing to "vote" for a war just to spice things up abit.
(note that I've had plenty of wars all around, feels much more balanced so far.)
 
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