Ending the game?

[AStott]

From my experience so far, it seems that it is not actually possible to lose this game. If you lose a battle, you merely lose a little bit of equipment and your army, and you pick right back up again.

If this is not already implemented, would it be possible to include an option so that sometimes getting knocked out in a battle will actually kill you, ending the game? This provides (for people who enjoy it) an extra challenge similar to the hard-core mode in games like Diablo.

 

[armagan]

This has been suggested before, but I decided against implementing it. Very few players would actually use this, and those that do would need to adapt an over-cautious play style that wouldn't fit the fun and light playing-style I envision for the game.

 

[JohnathanStrange]

Yes, I would call it the "To Die In Caladria" mode and it could be implemented? Maybe after a player reaches a certain level, or "switched on" at any point. or...?

I'd like a simple death screen (maybe a screenshot sort of thing) and not just jumping to a New Game screen.

Having greater negative consequences for bad decision-making by experienced players who presumably should know better is a good way to keep us on our toes.

 

[Skyrage]

Actually, I think some sort of "game over" situation should be implemented...it doesn't necessarily have to mean death, but playing something that you can impossibly lose isn't remotely fun either...

With the "forced save" option, it'd be challenge enough anyway...

 

[DJ Dethnutz]

Maybe you could implement a version where players would randomly lose levels if they were beaten in combat (and had no other troops to back them up), assuming that hardcore mode was implemented. However I am more in favor of a "permadeath" option as well... just put their name in the high score table saved locally on the machine. I wouldn't be surprised if a decent number of M&B fans were also fans of "roguelike" games like NetHack, ADOM, Ragnarok etc... where enforced permadeath makes the game more "real" and exciting. Having it as an option (and corresponding difficulty level increase) would be pretty cool.

I wouldn't worry about people adopting an overly cautious style of play. Those that choose the permadeath option would get used to the "sit down, play like a heroic madman for 2 hours before being slaughtered by some sea raiders and then repeat the next day" mentality. It would make the triumph of making some level 50 full black armor balanced sword of war badass much greater, too.

 

[JohnathanStrange]

Maybe you could implement a version where players would randomly lose levels if they were beaten in combat (and had no other troops to back them up), assuming that hardcore mode was implemented. However I am more in favor of a "permadeath" option as well... just put their name in the high score table saved locally on the machine. I wouldn't be surprised if a decent number of M&B fans were also fans of "roguelike" games like NetHack, ADOM, Ragnarok etc... where enforced permadeath makes the game more "real" and exciting. Having it as an option (and corresponding difficulty level increase) would be pretty cool.

Pretty cool, indeed. And I am in favor of a top ten high score or achievement stat for the dearly departed too.

Good NetHack reference...

 

[DJ Dethnutz]

Let's not forget the bones file... keeps track of what level people were when they died and randomly inserts them into dungeons (or in this case, war bands) to attack the living (and give a portion of their old equipment and gold if you manage to kill them). Nothing like meeting up with a character of yours that died a month ago and putting their tortured spirit to rest with your broadsword.

 

[Nairagorn]

Absolutely. I'd love a hard core mode with a bones file. Part of the reason people still play Rogue

See how for you can go before you bite the big one!

 

[AStott]

Having it not fit the play-style you envisioned is certainly a valid argument. It might not be one I agree with, but you're the author afterall.

But I'm not entirely certain that "very few" players would use that feature. What percentage of players actually using it at some point would make it worth implementing? Wouldn't it be a fairly isolated change to make? It has the advantage (if it's an option) of open up the play style to fit what more people are interested in.

One way or another, I certainly wouldn't want perma-death for every lost fight. Afterall, I do really like the concept of being left for dead, but recovering (it's a very heroic concept), but it just seems like there should be a greater penalty for losing. I like the idea of a chance for perma-death, but other interesting things could be a chance for a permanent (or long term) injury (reducing stats or skills or just experience). Or if nothing else, losing a greater portion of your carried goods and gold.

It's started bothering me that I can lose a fight with 30000 gold, and yet for some reason, the victors only carry off a few thousand of my gold. Items I can understand (perhaps their inventories were full), but gold? Maybe you should lose all of you gold... although to balance this, you'd probably have to implement "banks" in towns where gold and items could be stored for a fee. This would give a safe place to protect stuff.

Well, regardless, all of these suggestions may be trumped by your argument about "over-cautious play style", but it's certainly worth consideration. I know it wouldn't affect my play style much.

Hmm... another consideration might be the fact that this helps add difficulty and challenge to a game that (for a number of people) might get a little too easy after playing for a while...

 

[armagan]

Actually, banks would be easy to add. Actually it'not even necessary to add banks, merchants can be used as for depositing and withdrawing money. I was assuming that your character was automatically using the services of a bank, (hence you don't lose all your money in case of defeat) but I guess it's better to make this explicit.

 

[Keemo]

I woulden't mind an optional hardcore mode where death is a bit more of a dreaded event. Like losing ALL your items and money and/or losing a level. I don't think perma-death should ever be a possibility in the standard game though. Leave that for mods.

 

[alesch]

Please reconsider the hard-core mode. I do like the idea of putting fallen characters into war bands. Even if you don't add perma death, maybe you could make it so taht if you create a new character, characters from other games will roam around randomly as a party. Maybe you could make it so that multiple characters could interact to a limitded extent in this way. Such as having one of my Vaegir characters attack a Swadian character adn vice versa. Maybe perma death could be implemented ONLY in this way, if you kill a character off yourself. It'd be pretty funny to make a new character and then go about and start a rivalry with my old character.

 

[Ingolifs]

I think it would be neat if there were a few different consequences to losing in a battle. Permadeath should only happen once you are above level 7 or something, and then, only when you *REALLY* get your arse kicked. (say a 20 health deficit or more on the killing blow)

Apart from that, there could be a bunch of other things happening. For instance, if you get knocked out in a fight, but your guys beat the enemy, you would have to hobble home with a wound that wasn't curable any place out of town. (good place for a church to come in)

If the enemy succeeds in knocking you out, and destroys your army, something happens based on who those enemies were.
If you were knocked out by: river pirates, sea raiders, mountain bandits, khergit raiders, etc, they simply nick off with your stuff. (but only a limited amount, so they pick the stuff most useful to them, eg khergit raiders are likely to take your horse).

Some types of enemy could capture you as their slave and sell you off at the salt mine or something. As a salt mine slave you would have to lead an uprising to escape. ( this is assuming the whole salt mine thing gets the much needed expansion)

If you were captured by a vaegir or swadian army, you would have to be dragged before the respective King, and forced to either repent and join their army, or die. This could depend on how you are ranked in the opposing force's army.

Finally, if you were captured by Dark Knights, if you put up a good fight and managed to kill a few, they might even offer you a horse and some armour so that you could ride with them and fight stuff. Under pain of death of course.

 

[mfberg]

Sorry for necroing a 2 year old thread, but this is as close as I could find to this suggestion.

How about losing experience upon getting knocked out/killed in a battle. This would only work for NPC's and the player's character, not for troops. The consequences would only be to make it a little harder to level. My reason is that I can fight in battles of more than one side with no ill consequences, and there should be some, either loss of experience or faction support.

mfberg

 

[Gregor Eisenhorn]

Yeah, become worse at fighting because you fought and didn't win.

 

[Volkier]

And whats there stopping one from ending the game on their own once their character dies? :
Again, do you NEED a big "game over" message to hit the exit button? Because if you do - that simply shows that given the choice, you would re-load the game upon death anyway :

 

[Jeeves]

I definately think you should have higher money and item penatly, if some pirates with rubbish equipment knocked you out then they would definately raid your loot to try and better equip themselves. (you could then also run across pirates with some half decent equipment sometimes too)
Also, (not sure wether this is in the game or not, haven't been knocked out in a while, and when i am i normally don't have troops with me) when you are knocked out your own troops should carry on fighting (or at least have it calculated) as to the outcome rather than as soon as you die you loose.
This could work with morale - if you die your troops are worse in combat as they loose morale (unless one of your NPC characters has good leadership) and the other way round too, too often i kill the leader of a party and the troops move on regardless, they should fight worse, some run away, mayb even switch sides (wether or not you still kill them is up to you, but if you get a rep for killing people who desert then you're not going to get many doing it)
Overall i seem to have suggested a reputation system here, which i think would be good and make dying a worse thing. if you have a rep for dying you're not going to be able to recruit people so easily or get given decent missions, but if you have a rep for winning every battle then you're going to get given harder missions, better troops will want to come with you etc.

 

[Apollon-04]

Your troops do continue fighting if you get knocked out. If they do okay, you're allowed to charge at the enemy again. If they dont do okay, you die/ get captured.

 

[Jeeves]

ah, i never noticed that, although generally i don't have many troops with me (and obviously marnid and borcha don't count)

 

[Inasrian]

I know personally Merithei who made Swadian Civil War. He has a made a mod that includes deaths of your character and it sends your character to Zendar with the beginning things as if you restarted your game.