Endgame

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Griskard

Sergeant at Arms
It doesn't seem like there is much end-game at the moment. So, What I am going to do is cheat, and see if there is eventually something that resembles native (Well, you know what I mean)

So, today I will do the add peasant cheat alot, and then much, much more wait quickly. Lets see what happens.

Diary:

Start: Added populations to about 250. To my surprise it seemed like about 150 of these ended up becoming garrisoned as soon as I waited a bit. Wait till next year. Having it pause every 30 days means I have to sit in front of the computer alot of the time, which is OK, but boring. I wish there was some way to stop it pausing every month.

1257: Well, First years up, around August I got a message saying the Kingdom of Nords has declared war on the kingdom of swadia. The Nords arose at charfield. No more bandits I guess. Queen Rawer of the Nords is running around with a party of 301, while Queen Esmirelda is running around with 302. Mostly peasants. Guess thats a side effect of me adding all those peasants in earlier. Theres a few peasant caravans running around. It appears that Leiges to recruit lords (I didn't think that was in yet), Lord Einer of Swadia is chasing down a nord caravan. He has 100 troops.

Theres quite a few giant mercenary bands. I can see two 300-400 troop mercenary groups, and Wirt of Gonace is doing well. 1131 troops.

Most villages are now Manor Villages, although some (Like Dantsic) are Towns (No mili upgrade) and Ashfurt is doing really well, a Manor Town, as is Braemar. Im not entirely sure why Ashfurt is doing that well, their location isn't anything special. Either luck, or one of their heros might be unusually good.

Looks like Ashfurt or Braemar will be the next factions. Although I think Ashfurt will be, they have almost double the non-garrison popultion. I guess we will see how next year goes.


1258: This year started with more declarations of war than world war two. Thankfully they decided the men needed a break before Christmas, although Swadia went back to war with the nords on January the 1st, They must be powermad. Now we have all the factions on the map. The Khergits where the first to come this year, having both Ashfurt and Braemar. Ahsfurt is catching up to Custow pretty fast, 752 working population to custows 1052. Nords are having trouble, only having 3 towns, averaging about 270 working population each.

As it turns out they don't recruit actual lords, at least, not according to the quests page. But I can see at least 6 Swadian lords on the map. So I guess its just that info pages are broken. Theres an absolute hive of activity on the map. Even with truesight off waiting quickly isn't as fast as it was.

No towns have been taken/lost in sieges yet.

The Swadians are definitely dominant, Most towns, and most of their towns average about 300-400 population. Next in line would be the Khergits, although only having 5 towns they average closer to 500.

After the Khergits it would be the Vaegirs. They have 4 towns sitting on about 360 each, and as far as I can tell have repeatedly raped the closest Rhodok town, which only has 27 population. Not bad considering they were the last to appear.

Its a toss up between the Nords and the Rhodoks for last. Nords have 3 towns, Rhodoks 4, although the Rhodoks don't have much in their 4th, and the nords have a higher average population. Combined with the problem the Rhodoks face of the Vaegirs, I will rank the Nords one notch higher.

That puts the ranks at:

Swadia
Khergit
Vaegirs
Nords
Rhodoks

Even after only two years the game is starting to look interesting on the metagaming level.

My theory for why the rankings have turned out that way is that it probably has a bit to do with map speed. That means trading/patrolling and whatever they are trying to do is done faster. The Swadians are starting to get knights in their ranks, so they have a higher speed than the others (Apart from Khergits), and the occasional Vaegir has horsemen. Khergits are all horsemen and their map speed shows it. 6.7 compared to a nord 5.

If this continues to play as big a part as it appears it does at the moment, I predict the Khergits drawing equal to, or surpassing Swadia as the dominant faction. Swadia will continue as second, and Vaegirs will move ahead of the Nords and Rhodoks. I believe the Nords will continue to gain on the Rhodoks.

I can only find two groups of mercenarys, 4 and 16 in number, I can't seem to find Wirt at all. Maybe he was defeated? I found what must be some of the unluckiest bandits around (The only ones on the map at the moment), being fought by Lord Bashetur, with 111 men, and 16, thats right, 16 Swadian patrols. Thats 431 men vs 4 bandits.

As an interesting note, Vaegirs are the only ones to inhabit their native territory, and swadia "sort of" does.



1259: Wirt has resurfaced. 1800 men. Positions have changed slightly. Swadia still rules, followed still, VERY closely by the Khergits. Khergit cities average about 900 population, while Swadias about 500, However swadia has 10 cities to Khergits 5.

Rhodoks have overtaken both Nords and Vaegirs, Vaegirs are ahead of nords. Some villages have become powers in their own right, like Ettelston, which has been fighting its own war against the Rhodoks. Unfortunately no Custom Faction arose.  Not much has really changed since last year. Powers aren't obtaining new settlements and the war/siege mechanism isn't fully implemented. Still, somewhat interesting.

Now I guess I am going to interfere by playing.
 
So, a few things that would be nice:

Some way to change the settings so that it won't pause every month, and won't show war/peace messages (Maybe change the pause time to 365 days so that it can be tested easier?)

The combat/Siege/whateveryoucallit system. Places need to conquer other places. Its not for lack of troops, but theres alot of unclaimed peasant towns around. Maybe we could add in a bunch of custom factions sometime down the line?

More detailed kingdom management. Its pretty good, but maybe some ways to change the number/tier of troops your patrols get. Same with Caravans. Upgrades for towns would be nice too.

A few other things too that I thought of while I was doing this but have since forgotten. Maybe I should learn how to script and help you guys out with that, I really like Kingdom management and stuff, and this mod has a way better base for in-depth kingdom management than alot. Ill look into that :p
 
Griskard said:
Maybe we could add in a bunch of custom factions sometime down the line?

More detailed kingdom management. Its pretty good, but maybe some ways to change the number/tier of troops your patrols get. Same with Caravans. Upgrades for towns would be nice too.

I really like the custom factions idea.  All factions are in CS really are troop trees, names, and a text color.  Just adding this option would be excellent.  The community can provide the actual trees themselves early on, and in the spirit of the settlements themselves, the good ones can make it into the game proper.

I too am a fan of more detailed management.  (That and seiges with closed gates.  Would it be that hard to have a different map for each *military* upgrade level for seiges?)  Also, would be great to be able to get tasks from Elder Peasants and the like.  Both of those would add a reprieve from the only real pass-time while waiting for your settlements to build, which is running around looking for people to kill. :grin:

I also have a question about balance-over-time (specifically end-game).  Early on, it's a REAL struggle to get things going the way you want, but once you have a city and a well fitted out character, I find myself simply buying out lords and conquering towns.  After a very sluggish and rather hands-off advancement to the Castle Town level, after that I conquer the map as if it was an epilogue to all that build-up.  It's almost as if the game is over as soon as it really begins.  Balancing the progression over time would be very nice, though I'm not sure how that would be implemented.  One of the things that contributes to this I think is that you can't manage your lord's and lady's settlement building...  Leaves little to do but conquer every other culture on the map.

Oh, something I almost forgot.  The dependence upon slave-trade to make money early in the game... Having to slug groups of slaves to Ramun in Custow after every battle really contributes to the slow pace of the early game that vanishes later on.  I'd just drop all the slaves in my town, but they seem to disappear if I put more than two dozen or so in there.  They vanish over time, and if I send a slave caravan from a raided village to my own town, two thirds of them vanish!  Really makes you have to micromanage your runs to Custow...

But don't get me wrong, I absolutely *love* this mod.  I play it more than Native. :grin:
 
Eca said:
The community can provide the actual trees themselves early on, and in the spirit of the settlements themselves, the good ones can make it into the game proper.

What a sound and logical idea! :grin: I wonder if wickedshot has thought of this. 
Possibly :cool:

Eca said:
Oh, something I almost forgot.  The dependence upon slave-trade to make money early in the game... Having to slug groups of slaves to Ramun in Custow after every battle really contributes to the slow pace of the early game that vanishes later on.  I'd just drop all the slaves in my town, but they seem to disappear if I put more than two dozen or so in there.  They vanish over time, and if I send a slave caravan from a raided village to my own town, two thirds of them vanish!  Really makes you have to micromanage your runs to Custow...
They disappear because eventually slaves earn the right to become full citizens too! Incidentally, they earn their citizenship through (forced) hard labor.

Eca said:
But don't get me wrong, I absolutely *love* this mod.  I play it more than Native. :grin:
Me too, though I haven't had time for M&B in a while altogether. I really do enjoy how similar CS is to Native but radically different at the same time.
 
Liquidninja said:
They disappear because eventually slaves earn the right to become full citizens too! Incidentally, they earn their citizenship through (forced) hard labor.

That was my original thought.... but I have sat there and very carefully watched as slave caravans get assimilated into a settlement.  I might send a caravan with (rounded numbers for easy math at this late hour) 60 slaves and one driver into a settlement with 70 troops, 30 prisoners, and 220 population.  Once it "joins" I have gained 1 troop (the driver) and 20 slaves...?  The number gained seems to go up a *little* if I remove all of the slaves in the settlement already.  (Something I tried on suspicion that there was a minimum troop-to-slave ratio.)  Is a caravan "deposit" more complex than a single event, or am I missing something?
 
Hmmm. That's very curious. From what I can recall from the last time I played, this is what SHOULD happen. :razz:

Your caravan arrives. You gain +1 Slave Driver in Garrison. All remaining slaves will deposit into the prisoner portion of your settlement. However, keep an eye on the number of workers that you have (Quarry workers, lumber workers, and farmers). If there are any civilians that you've captured, they might add immediately to your work force. If they do not add immediately, then over time, they will join the work force. The combative forces however, should remain your slaves permanently...at least I have never noticed them joining my garrison.

Maybe this is the source of the mysterious disappearances?
 
Liquidninja said:
Maybe this is the source of the mysterious disappearances?

That's kinda what I thought might have been happening, but if it does take some time for them to be assimilated into the workforce as you were saying, then that would explain why I'm not seeing it. :smile:  Will have to do some tests and watch them over time.  Thank you, btw. :smile:

Oh, just for the record, there is no real troop-to-slave ration in settlements other than the likelihood of getting a slave revolt event, correct?

Crroatian said:
Griskard  so you are just watching the show or fighting another faction

I was wondering the same thing. :wink:  On that subject, I wish there was a way to alter NPC aggressiveness.  I know they have character traits, but it can be a major operation to try and get a single NPC to claim a settlement so that they can be all warlike and stuff...
 
Eca said:
Oh, just for the record, there is no real troop-to-slave ration in settlements other than the likelihood of getting a slave revolt event, correct?

If you're asking if there is a specific ratio for not getting revolts, then I believe the ratio is 2 troops for every slave. However, I'm not sure if there are other modifying factors to this ratio (perhaps the corruption value, or other hidden variables), as I've personally gone slightly under the 2 to 1 ratio, and not had a revolt. Though I could be wrong of course :wink:, as the memory is a bit fuzzy.
 
During that time I was watching. I used the truesight cheat to look around and stuff, but never did so much as claim a settlement.

Assuming the game is well balanced with the right mechanics it should actually develop over time, but like native M&B it tends to go pretty stale.
 
Griskard said:
During that time I was watching. I used the truesight cheat to look around and stuff, but never did so much as claim a settlement.

Assuming the game is well balanced with the right mechanics it should actually develop over time, but like native M&B it tends to go pretty stale.

Hmm in the end is it possible to destroy factions?
 
. . . Also, would be great to be able to get tasks from Elder Peasants and the like.  Both of those would add a reprieve from the only real pass-time while waiting for your settlements to build, which is running around looking for people to kill. :grin:

I also have a question about balance-over-time (specifically end-game).  Early on, it's a REAL struggle to get things going the way you want, but once you have a city and a well fitted out character, I find myself simply buying out lords and conquering towns.  After a very sluggish and rather hands-off advancement to the Castle Town level, after that I conquer the map as if it was an epilogue to all that build-up.  It's almost as if the game is over as soon as it really begins.  Balancing the progression over time would be very nice, though I'm not sure how that would be implemented.  One of the things that contributes to this I think is that you can't manage your lord's and lady's settlement building...  Leaves little to do but conquer every other culture on the map.

Oh, something I almost forgot.  The dependence upon slave-trade to make money early in the game... Having to slug groups of slaves to Ramun in Custow after every battle really contributes to the slow pace of the early game that vanishes later on . . .

Would like to put my support and agreement to what Eca is saying here.  The middle paragraph applied to me a lot because I pretty much did the same thing Eca did:  After going through the long-winded journey of upgrading to a Castle Town, I started to just buy off other Lords + settlements as they popped up.  I know I could just apply some self-restraint and let them go, but for some reason I just couldn't.  Maybe that's a flaw about me; if it looks like I can get it all before the AI does, I'll go for it. ^^

The slave-trade money making process is also notable for it's grisly and sluggish beginning too.  It's great to have Ramun present in Custow at all, but short of using cheats or risking death against too-powerful parties at the beginning (if you choose to attack Peasants, etc), the only way to make money early is the slave-trade.  Even after you advance to Em2 in your own settlement (Where you get a tavern), the fact that you don't get a persistent slave-trader in your own settlement forces you to always head to Custow to sell.  (While hoping every once in awhile that a Ransom-Broker will visit your settlement).  Unfortunately it adds to a slow and tedious beginning -- although you definitely feel like you put a lot of work in once you reach the Castle Town stage.  ^^

Lastly adding some more 'Settlement-based' interaction features will always (and probably is already on the list of things to do) a welcoming opportunity.  Like I mentioned in another thread; things that made you want to stay and interact or hang around your settlement really makes it more fun.  The (now non-existent) feature of being able to lure enemy parties to a certain range of your settlement and then having the battle take place with your settlement's map was really fun, and adding in additional tasks/events/activities while hanging around inside your settlement is definitely fun too.  Adding tasks or functionality to the Elder Peasant would be grand. ^^  Lots of people have already made numerous suggestions on additional features that could enhance the experience while inside your own settlement so I won't bother talking about it any more. ^^ 

I'm confident that these things have already been considered at some point or another, and if they have been tasked with being implemented, then it's only a matter of time.  Just wanted to bring up Griskard's points because I thought he put it really nicely. 

I enjoy the mod a lot, and I have been really inspired by the amount of creativity when riding around the different custom-made settlements.  It's like really stepping back in time to when villages, simple settlements, castles, forts, and medieval towns were real.  No matter how many documentaries you might see on television about ancient history or something, the splendid grand-scale detail and immersion just from exploring the user-made settlements simply can't compare to anything you'll ever read in books or see on educational videos.  And who said videogames can't be intellectually-enhancing!  ; )

Keep up the great work.  I will look forward to keeping up with the Mod.
 
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