Endgame is boring and really kills all the fun...

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TW created these clear 'steps' of stages from first fighting looters/bandits, to mercenary (and setting up caravan/workshops), to lord/kingdom takeover stage. It's just that the last stage ('end-game') comes upon the player way too quick/easily; and it starts from and is the same from taking/owning that 2nd town all the way to the 40th town.

Unless they add some actual roadblocks between 2nd and 40th town - it's why it feels so bad as an end-game. Or add further roadblock/challenges before then so it's harder to gain/hold that first town or two so the 'end-game' doesn't come too quick.
That´s why I want war goals. So that a faction can only take 1-2 castles/thiefs each war, and only the ones that were declared as a war goal. This would make wars less "random" I think. And of course the game needs diplomancy (alliances).
 
That´s why I want war goals. So that a faction can only take 1-2 castles/thiefs each war, and only the ones that were declared as a war goal. This would make wars less "random" I think. And of course the game needs diplomancy (alliances).
War goals/objectives are great but if one is a condition/target of getting 1-2 castles/towns only (before peace again), there has to be a lot more AI calculations they need to factor in to make it not feel too short (as that can be a 3-day war campaign).
They should just do a vote option (triggered once the army is formed/completed) - AI/you pick an objective and vote (with the abundance of influence currency) on the objective: take X town, defend X town, patrol X region, hunt X army, split army and raid. Can even allow you to vote in the army to change direction/objective as joining an army currently can feel so dumb with how they sometimes operate. As well as make having relationship with other AI in the army more crucial for them to vote in your favour. Would also open opportunity to add/flesh out a leadership perk for more influence sway as the army caller - or kingdom policy element.
 
It would offer a lot of options that should also be possible to be added. Was just a quick thought with the two fiefs.

I just want a reasoning behind a war and an objective that isn´t: Just **** them over!
 
To me even calling anything mid game, late game, end game is misleading as nothing really changes in a meaningful way after getting rank 2 (maybe 1/20 the way to a campaign?), even that is generous as you can begin taking larger parties and taking fiefs before rank 2. Just in-between steps are added but the game doesn't change at all because you don't gain any new player agency even when you're a vassal or a ruler.
You can add parties to an army and make a bigger party: So what? You can still only do what you do with a normal party.
You can recruit or create clans, this is just another in-between busy work and 99% of the game is still the same battles.
Without being able to order other armies and parties there is no meaningful change in game play as it goes on.

It's more like "getting your party ready" and then 'the entire rest of the game" are the only 2 part of the game.
 
To me even calling anything mid game, late game, end game is misleading as nothing really changes in a meaningful way after getting rank 2 (maybe 1/20 the way to a campaign?), even that is generous as you can begin taking larger parties and taking fiefs before rank 2. Just in-between steps are added but the game doesn't change at all because you don't gain any new player agency even when you're a vassal or a ruler.

I think you can divide it up into:
Early game: getting enough money to where it no longer matters
Mid game: getting a big enough army to take a settlement or solo lords
Late game: everything else

If you minmax it, the early and mid game just melts into a handful of trivial actions, but if you play casually they can drag out to like 3 to 6 hours. This is mainly because of how obtuse the levelling system is and how you have to intentionally grind the clan tiers, but its still a set of goals that could be expanded on, even if i think the infinite money is stupid.
 
I mean theres way to go about grinding out endgames. Take the LOTR mod for Warband - your really feel the pacing of the world with power and dynamic shifts and you get to feel a great power start to diminish after major non stop brawls but it never really felt tiresome. Going after yet ANOTHER orc party still seems like it kinda matters if they are battering some area especially if you care about that area. When the Dwarves and River Northman were getting close to extinction far up north - i felt real stakes in should i go help them but desert the Men of Gondor who also needed alot of help? Where is this sensation whatsoever in Bannerlord? Again why they should have considered real territories, real political/ethnic strife so that you could really dig into the long haul.
 
They should have made it so that after you have conquered most of the map the rest just join upp with you and at that moment you get zoomed out on the map and see another smaller continent with a really strong and advanced kingdom wich you have to defend from and eventually attack.
 
I mean theres way to go about grinding out endgames. Take the LOTR mod for Warband - your really feel the pacing of the world with power and dynamic shifts and you get to feel a great power start to diminish after major non stop brawls but it never really felt tiresome. Going after yet ANOTHER orc party still seems like it kinda matters if they are battering some area especially if you care about that area. When the Dwarves and River Northman were getting close to extinction far up north - i felt real stakes in should i go help them but desert the Men of Gondor who also needed alot of help? Where is this sensation whatsoever in Bannerlord? Again why they should have considered real territories, real political/ethnic strife so that you could really dig into the long haul.

They should have done something with the "end of an empire" thing in that vein. What some people have described as a lategame invasion could be the starting point of all the non-empire factions, maybe excluding aserai who are basically just on their own continent. But i think theyre worried about players not being able to join whatever faction they want at any point in the campsin, so they just made everything symmetrical and boring.
 
I see it like 'achievements' or 'collectibles' in other games as it relates to taking that 40th town. It's because there's no difference or substantial gameplay changes at all at that point vs taking that 2nd town. Getting that first few fiefs is like completing the story/game for single-player games - you can continue on as new game+ or go back to collect/unlock all those ponchos/lightsaber cosmetics but that's not really 'end-game'. The game ended when the story was completed; for BL, it's sort of like right around that moment as you enter Tier5-ish (or late T4 for some).

I don't know how the world map simulation works or if there is an instantaneous 'time skip' possibility (vs just the x4); but with the 'summit retirement house' recently added, why not allow a time-skip simulation too? Ie. retire your 40yr player (provided you have spouse/kids), time skip 10/15/20 years, see how the map changed and play that situation.
Whether everything went back to equilibrium, your kingdom dominated, your clan tier fell/lose renown (still think this needs to be in), family became dirt poor, etc...it adds a 'new' element to that same playthrough - but now playing as your kid as the newgame+ in the 'new world'.
 
To me even calling anything mid game, late game, end game is misleading as nothing really changes in a meaningful way after getting rank 2 (maybe 1/20 the way to a campaign?), even that is generous as you can begin taking larger parties and taking fiefs before rank 2. Just in-between steps are added but the game doesn't change at all because you don't gain any new player agency even when you're a vassal or a ruler.
You can add parties to an army and make a bigger party: So what? You can still only do what you do with a normal party.
You can recruit or create clans, this is just another in-between busy work and 99% of the game is still the same battles.
Without being able to order other armies and parties there is no meaningful change in game play as it goes on.

It's more like "getting your party ready" and then 'the entire rest of the game" are the only 2 part of the game.
This.

The game seriously lacks progression and the feeling of achievement. Its like they just threw everything they have into game without creating a proper orderly play order in mind, ie. gameplay loop. Warband had it, you didnt have a banner at the start, no one took you for serious, after getting your banner with enough renown it opened up new gameplay possibilities, after that being a vassal offered a different progression then RtR came to play. The game was basic, but it had engaging sandbox goals that player could create with the help of the game. Bannerlord from a gameplay design pov is all over the place, the gameplay loop is basically custom battle, campaign map is just for you to click on.
 
Kingdom elimination problem. Even when the opponent is beaten, he still wants tribute...... And it takes a really long time for the opposite to happen. I think there should be some random events (crusaders kings have so much of it). Troops regenerate too quickly. Peacetime should be expected after battles. A ravaged kingdom should appreciate peace and recovery because the longer it lasts, the stronger the kingdom and the troops. I think random events, religious options like choosing god and faith would be interesting. Then a detachment of religious followers/mercenaries would join. Who would have to be controlled so that they don't turn into radicals and the church doesn't have too much power in the country. The option of good relations with the family so that they does not want to take over the crown in the kingdom. how many betrayals there were in the Middle Ages because monarchs rather did not instill positive values and then brother dethroned brother.




Edit:I am for the creation of my own kingdom in the form of building villages, castles or cities from scratch in a limited amount. I wrote about the topic that you arrive by ship or caravan to calradia. Maybe not like in mediavel dynasty, but the option to put sketches where what would be created would be an interesting solution. Let's assume we get a certain amount of points to distribute and for them we can choose the type of units and their armament. Somewhat related to the faction with which we decided to establish a settlement.
 
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I don't think endgame is the problem, I think endgame being too long is the problem.

There just needs to be a way to reduce the annoyance of Kingdoms without a Fief. Fortunately I had an idea:

 
There's already an anti snowballing mechanic to make late game interesting in reality. It's diplomacy and economy, something that probably isn't going to ever exist in this game, and without those the lategame will always be silly and feel extremely artificial.
 
Why not have them in the game from the start then? Why contrive a reason to keep playing after the game has gotten stale by spawning them at the 30 years mark or whatever?
A fair counter-point.

I'd say the point would be to allow for more generational centered gameplay?

As in, the first character would deal with the current factions, but say 3rd generation characters could deal with new factions moving in too. Granted that would probably need some basic diplomatic options to be truly interesting, idk, I'm just rambling here. It's probably more interesting as thought than it would be if implemented...

Just wish there were more factions, more troops... that are different.. look different, play different...
 
A fair counter-point.

I'd say the point would be to allow for more generational centered gameplay?

As in, the first character would deal with the current factions, but say 3rd generation characters could deal with new factions moving in too. Granted that would probably need some basic diplomatic options to be truly interesting, idk, I'm just rambling here. It's probably more interesting as thought than it would be if implemented...

Just wish there were more factions, more troops... that are different.. look different, play different...
Subtraction would work better than addition for the purposes of greater distinction. Just subtract half the classes of all the troop trees and they'll resemble Warband's level of difference; outright remove cavalry from Sturgia and buff the infantry; remove cavalry from Battania and they're basically Rhodoks but more offense and less defense; remove archers and mounted bows from the Empire and they're Swadia; remove the cavalry and buff the crossbows and Vlandia is straight-up Rhodoks; remove anything without a horse among the Khuzaits and they're Kherjits; and the Aserai already fill the jack-of-all-trades role the Sarranids did, but with jareed-tossing horsemen instead of blunt-versions of Swadian Knights.

I don't think the factions have an issue with troops and variety, but more stuff actually diminishes the level of distinction between factions so less is actually more if you'd rather them be more different. I prefer as it is though since the little differences mean more to me in playing with them and experimentation than having a clear best of each troop type for every faction and little else within that faction's troop trees. Every playthrough of Warband inevitably resulted in some combination of Swadian Knights, Rhodok Infantry/Crossbows, Nord infantry, Vaegir bows and/or horsemen, Sarranid bows and/or horsemen, and Kherjit horsemen and/or bow cavalry. Anything else was either a self-imposed challenge or a desire for a shake-up, but otherwise options were limited and there was a clear best for most roles whereas in Bannerlord there's numerous different versions of the same things and some contests for the best of given fields (except archers and horse archers, since Fians and Khan's Guards clearly dominate those fields, but second best archers is contested at least).

The game is already generational unless you're very good and know how to effectively unite Calradia as soon as possible. I'm still a newb so my first playthrough lasting almost 50 years may be the longest barring some misfortunes or other unforeseen setbacks in later playthroughs, but it's long enough to call generational when 3-4 generations of character entered the game as the elders departed and kids were growing up into adulthood.
 

I agree with you but only because we just have 6 factions... not gonna lie when Bannerlord was announced and the dev blogs were rolling I kind of expected more small factions with interesting troops that offer different gameplay...

As for generational gameplay, I don't remember what my longest campaign, can't haven been that long since I got bored long before playing as any offspring :razz:
 
I agree with you but only because we just have 6 factions... not gonna lie when Bannerlord was announced and the dev blogs were rolling I kind of expected more small factions with interesting troops that offer different gameplay...

As for generational gameplay, I don't remember what my longest campaign, can't haven been that long since I got bored long before playing as any offspring :razz:
Welp, how would you know if there's generational gameplay or not if you haven't tried it? :razz:

I do remember reading the blogs way back when before not-following until I learned it was coming out to consoles last year. I remember reading about camelry last time and wondered what role they'd play (like, anti-cavalry cavalry?) but, well... they're not that important. I kinda wish we could recruit these specialized units, but maybe not since they've got a low ceiling in promotions so it'd be pointless to hire them and raise them if they can't match the Tier 5's and 6's. :???:
 
Welp, how would you know if there's generational gameplay or not if you haven't tried it? :razz:

I do remember reading the blogs way back when before not-following until I learned it was coming out to consoles last year. I remember reading about camelry last time and wondered what role they'd play (like, anti-cavalry cavalry?) but, well... they're not that important. I kinda wish we could recruit these specialized units, but maybe not since they've got a low ceiling in promotions so it'd be pointless to hire them and raise them if they can't match the Tier 5's and 6's. :???:
I mean, it's in the game, it's just not something I have tested myself is all.

That's the thing though, there aren't really any units that feel interesting appart from noble troops trees... which is a total bore! Bedouin-like Camel riders would make for a fantastic minor/bandit faction... but nope. I'm just hoping the Bannerlord Immersion Project is still kicking since their post 2 months ago.
 
I mean, it's in the game, it's just not something I have tested myself is all.

That's the thing though, there aren't really any units that feel interesting appart from noble troops trees... which is a total bore! Bedouin-like Camel riders would make for a fantastic minor/bandit faction... but nope. I'm just hoping the Bannerlord Immersion Project is still kicking since their post 2 months ago.
Sure, it's not your fault you don't like the game after all. Still, doesn't mean I can't use a tongue-sticking emoji in response to you judging something you haven't tested for yourself... :razz:

I hope that makes it better for you since I know what it's like to be part of an old guard in a fanbase only to see it go in a direction... less than what I'd like it to be, and I'm lucky to be able to say I'm actually "down with it" for once since I actually find Bannerlord euphoric and addictive. Too many game series I'm into that I'm basically the 20-something year old grandpa/"boomer" who thinks it peaked 10-20+ years ago and went downhill since lol. :dead:
 
Sure, it's not your fault you don't like the game after all. Still, doesn't mean I can't use a tongue-sticking emoji in response to you judging something you haven't tested for yourself... :razz:

I hope that makes it better for you since I know what it's like to be part of an old guard in a fanbase only to see it go in a direction... less than what I'd like it to be, and I'm lucky to be able to say I'm actually "down with it" for once since I actually find Bannerlord euphoric and addictive. Too many game series I'm into that I'm basically the 20-something year old grandpa/"boomer" who thinks it peaked 10-20+ years ago and went downhill since lol. :dead:
You do you :party:

Enjoy your stay then! Don't let forumites' pessimistic view of the game (mine included) ruin it for you, Reddit is probably more relevant when it comes to actually enjoying Bannerlord :neutral:

Well, now I'm in that boat I can't say it's something I was looking forward to, oh well!
 
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