Eliminate a faction - Forever

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Im on day 1600. I've obliterated the vlandians, leaving them down to 1 clan.
I cant recruit that clan, nor do I want to eliminate everyone (relationship hit).
Yet that clan, without towns or castles, recruits 4/5 mercenary clans and is somehow able to pay them.
I have been pummeling them for years, they're all very poor.

Yet they keep being a thorn in my side, raiding villages, starting wars, forming mercenary armies to take a weak castle.
How do I remove them from the face of the earth without taking huge relationship hits?

I've tried console killing the leader clan, but that also kills off ALL the mercenary clans in the faction once the faction ceases to exist.

Why doesn't the kingdom cease to exist once you've taken over their feifs? What king without kingdom could finance 4/5 mercenary clans?
How are you supposed to win? Take the huge relationship hit? I'm big enough to take on Vlandia, not big enough to take on the world. I need good favor with other lords to recruit them.

Or am I missing something? Please let me know how you all deal with this, because I'm lost.
 

Rush09

Regular
I have the same problem, the Battanians have lost all possessions to the Vladians and have been reduced to 1 clan but they still can hire a buttload of minor factions and be a nuisance. They sometimes convince rebel clans in Battania to join them when rebellions happen, gaining a town but they don't have the manpower to hold that town for long and go back to being a nuisance.

Just an idea but maybe a cool way to deal with these dying clans is, once they lose all fiefs and stand alone, they should "disappear" for some time, appearing randomly in foreign courts and after sometime either A) spawn a army (of all family members of clan) with a good amount of soldiers and heavy purse and assault a weak town somewhere on the map, if they succeed, they relaunch their faction. If they fail, they are wiped from the game. or B) they slowly disappear from the game until the faction is no more, young members join other clans, old members appear in foreign courts talking about "how great their faction used to be".

Give them a shot to be someone again or eliminate them all together. I think the reason they don't die altogether is that before we would lose the few family members we had in the campaign but with the rebellion system implemented we have a lot of new clans appearing in any given campaign so if one clan goes away, it won't be an issue anymore.

As it stands, they are just annoying.
 
Im on day 1600. I've obliterated the vlandians, leaving them down to 1 clan.
I cant recruit that clan, nor do I want to eliminate everyone (relationship hit).
Yet that clan, without towns or castles, recruits 4/5 mercenary clans and is somehow able to pay them.
I have been pummeling them for years, they're all very poor.

Yet they keep being a thorn in my side, raiding villages, starting wars, forming mercenary armies to take a weak castle.
How do I remove them from the face of the earth without taking huge relationship hits?

I've tried console killing the leader clan, but that also kills off ALL the mercenary clans in the faction once the faction ceases to exist.

Why doesn't the kingdom cease to exist once you've taken over their feifs? What king without kingdom could finance 4/5 mercenary clans?
How are you supposed to win? Take the huge relationship hit? I'm big enough to take on Vlandia, not big enough to take on the world. I need good favor with other lords to recruit them.

Or am I missing something? Please let me know how you all deal with this, because I'm lost.
Kill them in battle.
Everytime you have a battle with them save the game, start the battle and hope somebody died and if not reload the game.
Only way to remove a kingdom from the game.
 
You have to kill them in battle, someone else mentioned it, but you'll likely need to save cheese battles. I try to take small ones and rundown the enemy lord with a couched lance. I think it's a flat % and not influenced by damage, but anecdotally, when I do get good kills on Lords I've always gotten a kill when I one shot them (couched lance, jav to the face, two-hander from horseback).

Now that Minor Factions reconstitute rather quickly in 1.6.2, usually will execute the Mercenaries, depending on who they are.
 

dannazgu

Sergeant at Arms
I saw in some post here, someone said that eventually the king would dissolve their own kingdoms after a time without lands and money
 
In warband they had some time after losing all the fiefs, and if they didn't take any fief, the faction would be eliminated. Or it was Diplomacy mod? Can't remember for sure...
But I don't mind if they made the same here.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
In warband they had some time after losing all the fiefs, and if they didn't take any fief, the faction would be eliminated. Or it was Diplomacy mod? Can't remember for sure...
But I don't mind if they made the same here.
Iirc once a kingdom lost their last town/castle they were no longer a kingdom but former nobles could join other factions.
 
Last time this came up I got scolded for saying the AI cheats, so I'll try to describe it more delicately. 1st there is a problem with the fail states of both factions and rulers, it's unclear if this is just more oversights and tinkering accidents or if it's a intended change. Last I heard, the Ruler should be able to run out of money and clans in a ruined faction should start to leave once the ruler cannot give the poor clans extra money (which is a mechanic) however I don't know how this is effected by other changes to how AI use thier relation with rulers. Now for the ruler themselves I have read (but not seen myself) that a ruler will eventually give up and join another faction as a vassal or even be recruited by the player. All of this was described by Dev to probably take 2 years of the ruler being fiefless and making no progress to run out of money and lose vassals. Now, all I've ever seen feifless AI do is just raids forever and ever and eventually try to take a fief. Some clans may change factions but I have never seen a faction go away myself (unless I killed them all). And yeah, ruined faction gobble up all the mercs, they are not limited to 3 like the player and it's very dubious how they can afford them. I'd guess the explanation is they are hired to be paid via their influence but if no money is there to pay them at the daily tick.... NOTHING HAPPENS or at least nothing happened until they calculate whether to change faction...which is who knows how often. Or perhaps if they can't be paid they get "magic money" and so they're always happy anyways, I don't know. I think they get money for nothing when not hired by a faction just so they don't dry up and die, but It wouldn't surprise me if woopsie poopsi they get it when hired too. IMO if they miss a payment the Merc should turn red and start raiding/hunting them!

"Snowballing" gets used as the srcapegoat for tunz of these problems. I feel like TW needs to acknowledge the difference between what the AI does to each other on it's own and what happens via the players support and actions. Unless TW adds literally a 100 new features to the game there's no reason to want it to go on forever and over and ever! No reason at all for the player to want to defeat the same parties and factions over and over in endless loops! We need real, effective fail states for the AI factions, meaning they GO AWAY, MAP GETS PAINTED, YOU WIN THE GAME, do you want to keep playing (add a respawn new factions option?) or do you want to play a new game?

Also, how about game options: "slowpoke sell mules for 10 years smithing baby mode(what we have)" and "Brutal I wan't to kick butt and take land and have every fight dramatically effect the world and the AI to pay for every single things and suffer for not doing so!" Mode.

Although I was slightly annoyed by having to always deal with Khuzaits asap I was never really bothered by the "snowballing" in general because I AM EVEN FASTER THEN THE AI! Also, even now I deal with Khuzait first as they're still the most dangerous faction (for me in live battle) if let them build up, so anti-snowballing is just annoying and barely changed much for me personally.
 

Poddicus

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
b3Rspi5.png
 
Last time this came up I got scolded for saying the AI cheats, so I'll try to describe it more delicately. 1st there is a problem with the fail states of both factions and rulers, it's unclear if this is just more oversights and tinkering accidents or if it's a intended change. Last I heard, the Ruler should be able to run out of money and clans in a ruined faction should start to leave once the ruler cannot give the poor clans extra money (which is a mechanic) however I don't know how this is effected by other changes to how AI use thier relation with rulers. Now for the ruler themselves I have read (but not seen myself) that a ruler will eventually give up and join another faction as a vassal or even be recruited by the player. All of this was described by Dev to probably take 2 years of the ruler being fiefless and making no progress to run out of money and lose vassals. Now, all I've ever seen feifless AI do is just raids forever and ever and eventually try to take a fief. Some clans may change factions but I have never seen a faction go away myself (unless I killed them all). And yeah, ruined faction gobble up all the mercs, they are not limited to 3 like the player and it's very dubious how they can afford them. I'd guess the explanation is they are hired to be paid via their influence but if no money is there to pay them at the daily tick.... NOTHING HAPPENS or at least nothing happened until they calculate whether to change faction...which is who knows how often. Or perhaps if they can't be paid they get "magic money" and so they're always happy anyways, I don't know. I think they get money for nothing when not hired by a faction just so they don't dry up and die, but It wouldn't surprise me if woopsie poopsi they get it when hired too. IMO if they miss a payment the Merc should turn red and start raiding/hunting them!

"Snowballing" gets used as the srcapegoat for tunz of these problems. I feel like TW needs to acknowledge the difference between what the AI does to each other on it's own and what happens via the players support and actions. Unless TW adds literally a 100 new features to the game there's no reason to want it to go on forever and over and ever! No reason at all for the player to want to defeat the same parties and factions over and over in endless loops! We need real, effective fail states for the AI factions, meaning they GO AWAY, MAP GETS PAINTED, YOU WIN THE GAME, do you want to keep playing (add a respawn new factions option?) or do you want to play a new game?

Also, how about game options: "slowpoke sell mules for 10 years smithing baby mode(what we have)" and "Brutal I wan't to kick butt and take land and have every fight dramatically effect the world and the AI to pay for every single things and suffer for not doing so!" Mode.

Although I was slightly annoyed by having to always deal with Khuzaits asap I was never really bothered by the "snowballing" in general because I AM EVEN FASTER THEN THE AI! Also, even now I deal with Khuzait first as they're still the most dangerous faction (for me in live battle) if let them build up, so anti-snowballing is just annoying and barely changed much for me personally.

Yeah.. I am now entering end game, having almost conquered half of the map. I’ve stated in a different thread (the one about snowballing) that even while absent my faction which by far outshines any other, stays remarkably static. It does not snowball, which is odd, because it is no longer a snowball, its an avalanche, and Vlandia (1 party with 1 member) wages war against me and hires 4-5 merc clans to pester me.
I like that early game is incredible balanced, but to avoid the endless loop I think a little late game snowballing might be allowed where lords of factions you are beating into the ground defect to you. It would avoid the endless loop (mostly) and solve the clan cheating problem.
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
No reason at all for the player to want to defeat the same parties and factions over and over in endless loops!
This also describes the state of bandits in the game, especially if they haven't patched out the fact that they scale with player level.

Or, practically, every single game mechanic in BL is a pointless grinding chore stacked on other pointless grinding chores. There's no soul or uniqueness or excitement to any given play-through.

It's kinda why I stopped playing it. And I don't anticipate picking it up again anytime soon... or really anytime. Man, that's a sad thought.
 
This also describes the state of bandits in the game, especially if they haven't patched out the fact that they scale with player level.

Or, practically, every single game mechanic in BL is a pointless grinding chore stacked on other pointless grinding chores. There's no soul or uniqueness or excitement to any given play-through.

It's kinda why I stopped playing it. And I don't anticipate picking it up again anytime soon... or really anytime. Man, that's a sad thought.
Interesting take. For the very opposite reason, I jumped ship on No Man’s Sky. There is grind, but eventually you become so wealthy there is no grind or meaningful purpose. Hello Games keep adding more shallow shiny objects, but it’s like adding a new magnet to your fridge. It’s still just a fridge.
Personally, I think TW is trying to make BL substantially better, while Hello is just trying to make NMS more pretty. So I keep playing the updated betas. For now. My patience is wearing thin on the whole one step forward- two steps back that occurs with each push.
 

LDominating

Recruit
It would be nice for faction leaders to disband their kingdoms or abdicate or to let themselves join another faction.

I'd also love Bandit Heroes,RNG NPCs with clans,that will be met during hideouts battle,provided their party is there.
These clans will have the bigger bandit parties that we see late games,otherwise bandit groups will be 10 to 30 and looters 5-15.
Easier to balance and more immersive,I'd say.

I have also been thinking about the Calradic Empire,and how it should have more mechanics.
For example if there's revolts and in future rebellions done by clans,they automatically join another Empire faction if they don't have low relations with the nobles of that faction.
 
Did anyone in this thread ever get the Kingdom fully eliminated?

I'm currently struggling with a nuisance Kingdom with a huge ruling clan and one faction. I'm wondering if they'll ever go away.
 

Blood Gryphon

Master Knight
WBVC
@SadShogun what are your guys thoughts on when a faction should be considered eliminated?

Right now the only way is to kill them, but I think there should be a less drastic solution. Something like a period of time and a threshhold of wealth. So if a faction gets down to just the leading clan and they havent had a fief for a year and they are poor/very poor then have them disband the kingdom. They could then be a normal clan unaffiliated and be available to recruit or have them be exiled and take them out of the game.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant
Damn.

I imagine this was the discussion regarding the Taliban in the White House command room...

"The Taliban are down to their last family, why wont they just go away... "

Any faction that still exists on the map has the potential to hire mercenaries and take back castles. If there is a rebellion in a city, I imagine they can even have that rebel city join them (if this doesn't work, it should). While there are options on the map, they should be allowed to remain in the game. I don't really care if their presence annoys some players.

And the only legitimate way to remove them should be the only way you'd legitimately remove an insurgent group who's land you've taken and for whom there is no diplomatic solution available... Just make it quick and painless. Relations can always be bought back via the donate influence panel...
 
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