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Elder Scrolls 5:Skyrim

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Sir Prince

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The only way paid modding will be viable is if they are guaranteed a steady income while they make the mod, especially for the larger ones. Probably through some sort of system like Patreon and maybe releasing it early for 'backers'. Anyone who quits their job to do full time modding though is probably just going to get royally ****ed over and it won't be a very long term thing due to the lack of highly moddable games and how few people will probably even buy their stuff.

Since they get only 25% of the cut, and only after they have sold $400 of it, and even then it takes over a month (Chesko stated it would take 45 days before he received the money) as well as some other specifics like going directly into a certain bank account (possibly incurring another fee) plus they are going to have to keep track of it all for tax purposes, it really limits the potential for making a living off of it unless you hit upon a really popular idea that someone else isn't just going to make for free.

There are just too many problems that will scare away customers as well due to how likely it is the mod won't work anymore due to the modder losing interest, not making enough money to keep working on it, game updates breaking the mod, mod breaking other mods or vice versa, a WIP mod that is never finished, the price being too damn high compared to what you could spend the same money for on other games or DLC (especially during a sale) or rage quitting as they threw a tantrum over some slight and/or don't know how to ignore idiots on the internet.

The only kind of mod I might consider giving a few bucks to (let's say $5) would be something like Europa Barbarorum. Except the bigger the mod the more people work on them, so they would have to sell even more copies to make it even a nice bit of compensation for their time but still nowhere near livable.

I won't pay $1 for one or even ah alf-dozen weapons if they're DLC as it is, no way would I be buying a single weapon or suite of armour no matter how much effort someone put into it. Especially since the armour and weapon stat values in mods can be all over the place, and it gets messy and confusing when you start using overhaul mods to balance the combat and make it much better (ie less damage spongeyness and more realism).
 
Indie developers aren't guaranteed an income and frequently do get royally screwed when they quit their jobs to develop their game. This has yet to kill or even slow the indie games "scene". Most game developers aren't successful and most modders won't be. I don't think that matters.

This surely isn't the best system (especially with Bethesda taking at least 50%), but I think paid modding is inevitable. If it's not, people with skill just won't do it.
 
Making a livelihood out of modding will be possible for very few people but it doesn't mean it's bad because of that.

Being able to make an extra buck for something that is comparable to a freelance work isn't bad for someone who actually need the money.

I think the problem lies in the developer being rewarded thrice: by selling the game, by having mods adding a lot of value to their game and by actually earning a large cut of whatever mods that decide to be monetized.

And it's ****ty for consumers, I think. If Skyrim didn't have mods I wouldn't have bought it, and sure as hell wouldn't have bought it too if the mods were all paid, as they are the sole reason why that game is playable.
 
Skyrim is a bad game to premier this on, for sure. Paid mods is something better suited for games like Mount&Blade or Total War or Half-Life games were total conversions are basically all their are. I'd absolutely pay $5-10 for some of the better TC mods I've played. I've put way more time into TLD than I have games I've dropped $60 on. I know a guy that put about 2000 hours into Europe 1200. If that's not worth money then nothing is.
 
Pretty much, when you have a mod that actually adds expansion-like values it'd be only fair to pay for it, and with financial backing people will have more motivation to make such ambitious projects.

The issue is that they'll be potentially mixed with bug fixes, single items and all that crap, those which I think are unacceptable to be charged for in a full priced title.
 
SacredStoneHead said:
I think the problem lies in the developer being rewarded thrice: by selling the game, by having mods adding a lot of value to their game and by actually earning a large cut of whatever mods that decide to be monetized.
Exactly. Bethesda is getting enough profit from mods simply due to the fact that they exist and make their games far more attractive than they otherwise would be, IMO. Demanding the lion's share of revenue from mods that they've done absolutely zero to contribute to is just abominable.
 
Apparently if you ask for a refund within 24 hours, you only get Steambux back. So they refund you with currency that you can only spend on them. According to a reddit post, at least.
 

Troll

Duke
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Goddamn, every new thing I hear about this just reminds me again how easily Valve gets away with running such a huge service in such a lazy and anti-consumer fashion. Here's hoping that more people will pay attention to that due to this at least.
 

Sir Prince

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Docm30 said:
Does anyone know if they opened it up so you can charge for Skyrim mods anywhere or does it just apply to the Steam Workshop?
Pretty sure its just the workshop, otherwise they don't get their cut.
 

Vraelomon

Baron
Vraelomon said:
I'd rather just rebuy it, tbh.
Well, that won't be necessary. As it turns out, I've been being stupid this entire time, just like me really. I managed to redownload it on steam, but I've only got one of my former saves. Which is fine, I've got the rest backed up somewhere. But yay me  :party:

Docm30 said:
Keep at it and never admit what you really did.
I didn't pirate it, if that's what you're thinking, you clever nellie you.
I bought them, but then I lost my internet connection, and eventually steam wouldn't let me play offline any more (for some reason).
For mount and blade all I had to do was get a different .exe file so it no longer had to run through steam, I did that myself. I don't know what my brother did with Skyrim, but the point is that I bought them both originally. In fact I've still got the case for warband right in my room  :razz:
 

Scuba Steve

Master Knight
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There's more than a couple of reasons why I can't and won't support paid mods (i.e. those behind a paywall, rather than allowing you to freely donate if you feel it's worth it).

The first one concerns software used to make the mods. A lot of Skyrim mod users specifically state that they use 3dsmax and Photoshop, and chances are they don't have a commercial license for said software. If they don't have commercial licenses, then they can be sued by either of these companies, and Bethesda and Valve have no legal obligation to protect mod authors. Additionally if they acquired these pieces of software through piracy (which many people do), it's going to be absolutely hilarious seeing these modders try and prevent people from pirating their mods. They can use free software like Blender, but if they've already done work with their non-commercially licensed product, they cannot include it in their mod. Are these individuals going to offset the cost of purchasing a commercial license for said software within their own pricing for the mods?

Additionally as most of us know, there's places on the internet where you can get some fairly decent free textures that can be used in non-commercial products. Of course anyone who actually deserves to be paid for doing this sort of thing should be making their textures themselves, but not everyone is willing to do this. Are these modders who are selling their mods going to pay the people who created the textures they used? Is that going to be reflected in the cost of the mod? Are they going to go to the effort of making their own textures? Will the additional work then be reflected in the cost of their mod? Will we then get mods that might be worthwhile to buy (anything smaller than a total conversion I personally feel would not be worthwhile), but might also be triple the price of the game that is required to even play the mod?

The other issue involved is the amount of videos that have been made freely available teaching people how to use the creation kit, and other modding tools. If paid mods start to become a regular thing, these training aides are going to disappear (or at the very least they won't be free anymore), because people don't offer free information that teaches you how to use something, only for you to be able to use what you've learned in order to make money. This means there will likely be fewer new modders coming to the scene, especially modders who have no experience at doing anything. This can be a blessing in the fact that it means there will be less people making scrub-lord mods and selling them, but it also means there will be less people who have the talent and ideas to make good mods as well. If these training tools aren't free, is the cost of training going to be included in the price of the mod?

There then involves the fact that a lot of large scale mods have people who contribute in small portions, and they come and go (this is especially true with Skyrim mods). Because some people disappear from the face of the internet easily and there's no way to get in contact with them, it means there's no way to find and pay them for their contributions. Ultimately means there's less incentive for people to actually help on large scale projects like this. It also means mod teams will frown on expanding their teams (obviously when necessary, even with a completely free mod, it's not worthwhile to accept everyone on your team) because they each get a lower cut. There's also difficulty in determining if someone just joins to do a little bit of work in order to take a slice of the proverbial money pie. So you get people who you can't pay because you can't find them, even if they now "deserve" to be recompensed for their hard work, and you've got people attached to your team who might have not done much work, but they did a little bit, so you have to let them get paid as well. Too many problems here.
 

Temuzu

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ThegnAnsgar said:
If paid mods start to become a regular thing, these training aides are going to disappear (or at the very least they won't be free anymore), because people don't offer free information that teaches you how to use something, only for you to be able to use what you've learned in order to make money.
I dont know man, what are you basing that on? There are plenty of tutorials for things that people use to make money, like video editing programs, or machinery, or whatever.

That's a good point about the software used to make the mods though.
 
Yeah, and good point about the division of profits too. I don't know how anyone can expect a group of internet strangers to reach a mutual agreement about how much money they each get, especially for people with little experience of the value of their specific labour.
 

Scuba Steve

Master Knight
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Comrade Temuzu said:
ThegnAnsgar said:
If paid mods start to become a regular thing, these training aides are going to disappear (or at the very least they won't be free anymore), because people don't offer free information that teaches you how to use something, only for you to be able to use what you've learned in order to make money.
I dont know man, what are you basing that on? There are plenty of tutorials for things that people use to make money, like video editing programs, or machinery, or whatever.

That's a good point about the software used to make the mods though.

Are those tutorials made completely free to use? As in you don't have to pay to use them? I've not come across any decent tutorials that are free that properly teach how to use software that you can use to make money from.

But the point I mean to bring up, is if people are allowed to place their mods behind paywalls, what's stopping the people who teach how to use the Creation Kit for Skyrim behind paywalls once paid modding becomes a normal and expected thing? Or how to use TES5Edit, or how to use NifSkope? I know if I made tutorials for those kinds of things, I'd probably place them behind a paywall if people could make money from using them. Heck, for that matter what's stopping the TES5Edit team or the NifSkope team from placing their tools behind a paywall once it becomes a regular thing?
 
A lot of Dota 2 workshoppers stream their workflow on Twitch and post free tutorials even for stuff like how to make promotional content, and we're talking about a very competitive environment there.

So while of course there are going to be people trying to squeeze money here and there, I think your concerns are overblown.
 

Scuba Steve

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
SacredStoneHead said:
A lot of Dota 2 workshoppers stream their workflow on Twitch and post free tutorials even for stuff like how to make promotional content, and we're talking about a very competitive environment there.

So while of course there are going to be people trying to squeeze money here and there, I think your concerns are overblown.

Perhaps. Only time will tell.
 

Stabbing Hobo

Master Knight
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SootShade said:
Goddamn, every new thing I hear about this just reminds me again how easily Valve gets away with running such a huge service in such a lazy and anti-consumer fashion.
"Cuz valve and steam is so guud and no drm. Valve hasnt dun anything wrong ever. its all best for every1, lets all bash ea and origin"
 
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