Either I'm starting to suck at M&B, or...

[Big J Money]

In the last several versions, I've skipped the training area, feeling I didn't need it, since I went through it with v.6x (or something around theres). Recently I paid a little visit to the guys there, and....damn! Those guys are tough as nails.

Here is my question: have they gotten tougher, or do I suck more? The regular fighters are owning me. They do all kinds of nice moves like feints, etc. This seems odd, because they are only level 2 out of 4 levels of fighters. It seems to me that feinting shouldn't occur until veteran. Also, their attack speed is pretty scary. Anyway, I have the AI set to "good". Could maybe this also be part of the cause? If anyone knows about this for sure, it would be nice if theywould divulge their experiences. As much as it saddens me, I might be moving the AI down a step...!

=$= Big J Money =$=

 

[Laurence of Arabia]

I'm pretty sure that they got a lot better. Of course, having the AI on good will contribute to this.

 

[Deus Ex]

In the last several versions, I've skipped the training area, feeling I didn't need it, since I went through it with v.6x (or something around theres). Recently I paid a little visit to the guys there, and....damn! Those guys are tough as nails.

Here is my question: have they gotten tougher, or do I suck more? The regular fighters are owning me. They do all kinds of nice moves like feints, etc. This seems odd, because they are only level 2 out of 4 levels of fighters. It seems to me that feinting shouldn't occur until veteran. Also, their attack speed is pretty scary. Anyway, I have the AI set to "good". Could maybe this also be part of the cause? If anyone knows about this for sure, it would be nice if theywould divulge their experiences. As much as it saddens me, I might be moving the AI down a step...!

=$= Big J Money =$=

I had the same problem with my .730 character - kept getting my butt kicked - finally gave up and went hunting river pirates. Not sure if it is the AI or the increase in speeds - but MAN those training fights seem MUCH tougher...

Didn't have this problem in .711

DE

 

[General_Specific]

I rule them! No offense, but I kick their butts! Learn to block. Every time he feints, you reset your block (aka, let go of right click and click it again). They are blasted easy!

 

[SPARTACVS]

You all right. The are much "better" (= much faster). Too much IMO.

The trick is to block then hit.

 

[Deus Ex]

I rule them! No offense, but I kick their butts! Learn to block. Every time he feints, you reset your block (aka, let go of right click and click it again). They are blasted easy!

That's another thing that bothers me a bit - it seems that opponents can "feint" - making you attempt to block - but then they don't swing, and change their attack.

Why can't we do the same? (if there is some method we can use to 'feint' - I apologize, I have not seen it mentioned anywhere)

DE

 

[Laconic]

My strategy for one-on-one combat:

I have my block direction set to automatic and my attack direction to mouse inverse.

I always start on the defensive. The computer knows exactly when you get in range of his weapon, so he usually will hit you before you can hit him. If you have a shield, go in blocking. If not, don't. The computer will see which direction you're blocking and attack around it. When you hear the *swish* of his weapon, block. You should automatically block him with whatever weapon you're carrying (shield it doesn't matter, just hold it up and let him hack it). Listen for the sound of his weapon moving. Every time you hear it *swish* without him hitting you, he's changing direction. Hit and hold the block button every time you hear that sound until he actually attacks you..you'll block him.

After you block him, immediately take a swing of your own. It really doesn't matter which direction in a one-on-one battle...it seems that overhead chops do more damage, but in the heat of combat you rarely have time to strategize things like that. If you score a hit on him, swing again immediately. If you DON'T hit him (if he blocks your swing or you miss), I never press the attack...I wait for him and block his attacks. The reason for this is, after he blocks you, the chances of you hitting him before he hits you is rather low. It's possible, but most of the time you'll find yourself taking a hit.

Keep at this until you have him down. Also important is your movement in a fight. I (being a FPS player) instinctively move around when fighting. I move forward when attacking, and backpedal/circle-strafe when defending.

Using this strategy I just completed training with a nun. I put all her attribute points in intelligence and gave her two points in atheletics and one point in power strike, but didn't develop any combat skills past that. I use full player damage and good combat AI. I only lost one of the nine training fights.

Edit: Oops, I mean twelve fights. And I had just one point in athletics for a total level of 2.

 

[Ingolifs]

You can feint by preparing an attack, holding down the attack button, and then tapping the block button quickly while holding down the atack button. Your attack will reset, and most likely change direction.

 

[Deus Ex]

You can feint by preparing an attack, holding down the attack button, and then tapping the block button quickly while holding down the atack button. Your attack will reset, and most likely change direction.

Thanks Ingolifs.

But it sounds kind of tricky to pull off in the heat of combat.

I will have to re-visit the trainer and see if I can get the hang of it

DE

 

[Ingolifs]

Yeah, i find it is something you have to consciously think about. I generally don't do it in live combat, preferring instead to batter them with my sword until they let their guard down. (but that only works if you're fast enough)

 

[DaLagga]

The AI was improved alot in version .700 i think. I noticed they started blocking more, and feinting far too much. But it's really just more of an adjustment, you just have to get used to the difficulty and then you're fine. Practice by backing yourself in to the corner in training, and do nothing but block (if you start with a shield, put it away). Thats what i did when the game got harder, and after 10min or so you improve you skill at blocking 10 fold. Once i was sure i had it down, i did the exact same thing, except i turned my monitor off and blocked using sound alone. After i could handle that for 5min or so without taking a hit i went out and owned. Goodluck!

 

[Big J Money]

Sweet, thanks for all the replies. First thing I did was change the AI to 'average', and noticed an immediate difference. This is the level I will now play on. Am I mistaken, or did there only used to be 2 AI settings, 'poor' and 'good'? I think that's why I'm used to having it on 'good'.

Laconic, thanks for the details. The only thing I don't do very well is circle strafe while on the defense. When I am fighting more than one enemy, it just seems to put me between them. Of course, I am stubborn and refuse to play in 3rd person, which I am sure would help keep me from getting surrounded.

"Once i was sure i had it down, i did the exact same thing, except i turned my monitor off and blocked using sound alone. After i could handle that for 5min or so without taking a hit i went out and owned." Damn good idea DaLagga. In fact, I was thinking of proposing (at a later time) a suggestion that armagan beef up the training some time before release into a full fledged tutorial and training session. One of the things he could add is a 'blind-fighting' training where you fight with a blindfold.

Awesome, I'm glad you can use the block key for feinting now. This is something I was hoping for. You used to have to press the 'switch shield' button, and that was too hard. However, I still think it would be nice if armagan would modify the AI a bit so that on the normal AI settings, novice and regular fighters would get fooled by feints more easily. IE. I wish that they would hold their incorrect block, allowing the feint to work. This would be a nice tactic to give intermediate players an advantage over enemies like forest and mountain bandits. At least, I hope armagan isn't devious enough to give those bandits veteran AI.

One of these days when I submit my AI modifications proposal, I will include this as well.

=$= Big J Money =$=

 

[DaLagga]

When I am fighting more than one enemy, it just seems to put me between them. Of course, I am stubborn and refuse to play in 3rd person, which I am sure would help keep me from getting surrounded.

Ever since .700 the AI tries to surround you. Back in older versions, the entire enemy army would just run toward you in a huge line. Now they move around and flank you, so if you don't pay attention, you'll always find your back to an enemy. 3rd person helps alot obviously, but its not
too in 1st once you get the hang of it.

 

[Merentha]

I actually had a question regarding the mouse-inverse attack system. How does it work? pull the mouse to the left, your character attacks from the right?

<== mouse movement becomes a slash <===? Why do use mouse inverse as opposed to relative positioning?

 

[Jhaerik]

Strangle, was thinking the the trainer combat was actaully made easier with 7.30.

Won all 12 fights on good ai, without even getting hit this time around. Ever other time, I lost at least once.

The whole player movement increase makes it "far" too ez to simply move out of the way, I don't think I actually parried/blocked more than 2-3 attacks.

 

[Deus Ex]

I actually had a question regarding the mouse-inverse attack system. How does it work? pull the mouse to the left, your character attacks from the right?

<== mouse movement becomes a slash <===? Why do use mouse inverse as opposed to relative positioning?

I think it is supposed to represent the 'preparation' for your swing, or wind up. When you are going to swing to the left, you bring your arm to the right in preparation.

This is just my opinion and is probably completely wrong

DE

 

[thesneakster]

To win just rember that: if your attack is blocked your at a disadvantage, so block, and if you block your at an advantage, so attack

 

[CptBarnaclebeard]

The AI has definitely become more dangerous since .700. If feints far more often and tries to surround you, as has been pointed out. I think the scariest yet, has been facing orcs with scimitars in The Last Days mod. The way they swung it from left to right while advancing towards you made them a force to be reckoned with, I still fear them more than any other unit in the mod.

 

[Big J Money]

I actually had a question regarding the mouse-inverse attack system. How does it work? pull the mouse to the left, your character attacks from the right?

<== mouse movement becomes a slash <===? Why do use mouse inverse as opposed to relative positioning?

I think it is supposed to represent the 'preparation' for your swing, or wind up. When you are going to swing to the left, you bring your arm to the right in preparation.

This is just my opinion and is probably completely wrong

DE

@Merentha
I now use inverse mouse because #1. It doesn't rely on me facing a particular enemy, so it can't be screwed up by the movement of said enemy, and #2. It doesn't require me to make extreme mouse movements to get my desired attack off. I can make short, quick mouse movements and keep my view on my opponent.

@Deus
Why would you think you're wrong? I am sure that the point of inverse mouse is to represent the origin of the attack rather than its ending point.

=$=

 

[Cirunz]

Thanks Ingolifs.

But it sounds kind of tricky to pull off in the heat of combat.

I will have to re-visit the trainer and see if I can get the hang of it

DE

Not so much indeed: I do often the some thing with the bow, when I'm aiming to shot and one of my comrads think is a lot of fun to run exactly between me and my target..
Like for the parry, you get habit to that and you will not pay much more attention to it.


IT: the AI is smarter in the 0.700, but even in 0.730 I'm bashing the training partners without too much problems at "good" setting. Other thing is the arena battles: in the 730 I'm sucking a lot in there, especially when I get long sword + shield