Economy...

[Skyrage]

I am wondering whether it would be a viable idea to revamp prices, wages etc etc into something more fitting...and also how much money you earn...

My thought was making gold WAY harder to come by, and also drastically reducing prices of everything making it so that 1,000 denars would be a very high sum to have instead of the current situation where 10k denars is a rather high amount. Minituarizing everything basically, cause high sums of currency in any game always gives me the same impression: that money is worthless, yet in the same games, money rewards are usually dead poor...

Also, it wouldn't feel like I would be paying a king's fortune for a mere sword, even if it happened to be of a good quality...imagine throwing a huge sack full of denars when paying for one item...

Lastly, the way things are currently, it's way too easy to earn money by selling items and getting tons for them (main source of income), while the wages you get from nobles is pitiful, and the wages you pay for your troops is also rather pitiful...

Minituarizing prices a lot and leaving wages the way they are or slightly increase them would denars look much more valuable and appealing to have, and on top of it, it would be somewhat challenging to maintain large amount of troops, cause frankly, they are fighting for you in return for peanuts...if denars were much more valuable then this would be a different story...basically, what I'm trying to say: it's way too easy to earn money and money feels worthless after a very early point and also unrealistic...

 

[ironpants]

I agree, inflation seems to have gotten way out of control for such a medievalesque setting. Tone down the item values!!

 

[Destichado]

The problem with that is that starting out would become murderously difficult.
...Unless you leave salt merchanting avalable for the plebean neophites.

By level 25 or so, we've become what would have been caled the Captains of "Free Companies". We're Condotierri, in other words. These Captains could amass *so* much wealth, that some of them took over the countryside by simply buying up everything worth having!
I don't think it's unrealistic to make fortunes at trade and battle -it was very profitable if you survived; that's why men did it back then- I think the unrealistic part is not having anything to *do* with your money after you have an entire army of knights and suits of the best armor in the game.

What to *do* when you've become richer than the Kings; that's the question!

 

[Skyrage]

Why would starting out be hard? If nothing else, it'd be easier, as suddenly those 100-200 dinars you can get at start can buy you much more?

 

[[IT]Zoltan]

merchants could buy only the better things, because they know they can re-sell them, and they could refuse to buy scrap (like clubs or rags).


Let's talk about transport. carrying a large shield is already an hard task, carrying two-three shields with just an horse is impossible! i'd suggest to reduce the carrying capacity due to the item's dimensions.

i read somewhere that viking ringmails weighted 40 kg each, and two men used to insert a staff trought the sleeves and carry it on the shoulders, even to avoid the entanglement.

charts for sale. doesn't sound so weird now eh?

 

[JohnathanStrange]

I agree that after a fairly short period, acquiring money is not a problem. It makes economic concerns like buying weapons, paying troops, staying in taverns with large parties, or trading largely irrelevant.

When I first started, I would trade, bring salt to Zendar, tools to Tulga, that sort of thing, but that was a relatively short amount of the game. Soon I could sell weapons and gear for thousands of denars and it was all profit - except for my occasional casualty.

The focus of the game is rightfully on combat and that's how it should be. However, it's good to have other stuff to do: meaningful stuff. So, while I would not want to worry too much on if I have enough denars, not having to think about it at all - I have 700,000 denars now - is not as fun as I would've thought.

 

[Laurence of Arabia]

i havent got quite as much money as you, but i know what you mean (i have 150000+ now) and i dont bother selling slaves or anything anymore. Not worth the bother as i dont need the money.

 

[Chalo]

Utterly agreed. I rather like the idea that i pay 500 denaars for normal sword, the money that should be hard to come by at start, not 4000-7000denaars which it is now (approx). Small is beautiful or so they say

And no, i dont think the start would come much more difficult than it is now. Altough, tuning the prices lower definetly forces them to tune down everything else too, trade prices income, soldier hire prices etc etc.
You still could buy those needed 3-5peasants at the start for your army, provided they fix (hey..its not broken..i say "fix" just because its nifty) starting money for each class to set amount.

 

[wastelander]

The focus of the game is rightfully on combat and that's how it should be.

No offense, but I totally disagree with that! What I value very much about Mount&Blade is its potential of becoming a top-notch genre hybrid! I think this is also what armagan planned to make out of Mount&Blade or else there wouldn't even be an overworld map. He could have just modelled a big city and put most of the current features into it.

Personally, I think that making money more valuable in general would make the game much more enjoyable. I also think that the prices for equipment should be lowered only slightly while decreasing trade profits drastically. Come to think of it, an average chainmail did cost a little fortune in medieval times, especially in early to high middle age which the setting of Mount&Blade more or less refers to. I would like to thoroughly work out some suggestions, but unfortunately I have to learn for class tests and do a large homework about the crusades atm, so I really don't have much time, since I'm also working 6 days a week...

All my regards
~Wasty

 

[Chalo]

I think that making money more valuable in general would make the game much more enjoyable. I also think that the prices for equipment should be lowered only slightly while decreasing trade profits drastically.

Agreed for truth. How come i didnt think of that is beyond me.
IMHO you simply corrected problem with minor change...and yes the chainmail armor indeed did cost more than one could usually afford just like that at middle ages. Im not an expert but now that you said it it makes sense.

-Make the money harder to come by than it is now, not lowering the item prices = general idea in this thread or is it just me?

 

[Wanderer]

-Make the money harder to come by than it is now, not lowering the item prices = general idea in this thread or is it just me?

I'd have to say it's both. However, I have some issues with 'drastically' reducing trade. Let's take a look at each issue.

1) Cut prices overall to more realistic levels.

- A butcher's hatchet should cost about 5 danars. A sword was an investment, and should be appropriately priced... according to the world economy. In this case, what could the average person expect to make in say, a year? 100 danars? Okay, so a low end sword is 100 danars. How often would a blacksmith actually MAKE a suit of platemail, black or otherwise? They were rare, and put on display in castles for reasons. They were time consuming to make, as well. Usually, only armorers for nobles made these. Nearly impossible to find on the open market, they were built and fitted to a specific person. Picture the price of a tailored suit (plate mail) vs. the price of your average dress shirt and slacks (chain mail). I'd say this should be on the order of 5k-8k, and chainmail an equivalent reduction to that, say 500-1k.

These prices would make sense to me. If you wanted a fully tailored suit of plate, it'd cost you a crapload of gold to carry.

2) Drastic reduction of trade benefits, and why I disagree with the idea, while valid

- 2 skills become drastically lowered in value, Trade and Inventory Management. I will always disagree that the *entire* game is combat based. There are other aspects to it that shouldn't be erased. In my opinion, they should be expanded.

- Alternative startup methods are reduced. The entire Merchant starter class would become nearly pointless. It would be extremely difficult to get your feet under you again in the early game if you lost nearly everything, which usually occurs at least once.

- Trade *was* profitable in the middle ages, and moreso for caravans willing to brave longer distances. I agree, a war captain could make a fortune after a long campaign with salvaged goods... but those salvaged goods were more often then not *trade* goods, such as rugs, spices, prisoners, and horses, instead of how much chain mail did we rip off the dead people? I'm not saying that armor didn't carry value, but your average soldier (knights were rare, and your average fighter wore leather and chain) didn't carry armor of enough value to be worth carting it home by the cartload when that village over there had pottery! If anything, it was typically salvaged, as we do here in M&B, to the soldiers to replace destroyed goods, broken links, lost swords, cracked axes, and the like.

The other aspect of that was the war captain needed someone to kill. Your band of merry forest bandits didn't reappear in stronger numbers after you decimated them... tomorrow. There was a limit to the number of people you could kill without becoming an enemy of the people.

Trade should, in the end, be more profitable then war. That was the point of trade in the first place, profit. If you reduce trade profitability, you might as well remove trade goods alltogether, as it would become relegated to a nuance, a completely atmospheric effect, and most people would become annoyed at even ending up with any trade goods in their loot.

Besides that, why the heck would you bother creating a caravan in this world if there was so little to be made, except to become a worm on a hook?

 

[Skyrage]

-Make the money harder to come by than it is now, not lowering the item prices = general idea in this thread or is it just me?

Idea is making money more valuable so that 1k denars would be a fortune to have...for that, prices would have to be altered and the money you earn etc...

Yes, basic dead common things would like cost 5-6 denars, while higher quality stuff would go for 100+

As for trade, I would hope that it could be encouraged instead of discouraged...the problem is of course, after each battle, you WILL get valuable stuff which in the end will shun trade no matter what...