[Economy] Wealth Management

Ackdam

Regular
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Issue:
Currently, the player runs everywhere happily carrying around all of the denar they have managed to hoard at any given time. After a certain point, one begins to wonder how they are still able to move at all?

Suggestions:
A long list with a number of ideas that I attempted to present in an organized fashion. My aims were to give the player more options with how to use the money they acquire or get forced to use should they be a bit unlucky. I tried to make this a cost/benefit relation where the more money spent the more the player would get out of the action taken.

  • Penalties and Pitfalls - Reasons to not carry all of one's wealth with them.
    • Speed Reduction - All of that coin must weigh a ton.
      • Going by the weight of a medieval pfennig (The pfennig being one of the more common coins in the medieval era. An Anglo-Saxon pound was about 1.5 grams in comparison) at 1.7 grams, it would mean that one million coins weighed roughly 1.87 tons. If the weight of one denar = one pfennig then every one million denar would be the same. In other words: Large amounts of coin were very, very heavy. The more coin you have, the more animals you need to transport it and the slower you are likely to travel.
    • A Tempting Target - There are an awful lot of bandits out there. What do you want to carry all that gold around for?
      • The longer a player carries around vast amounts of gold, the higher the risk of bands of bandits joining together to attack you in an attempt to take it, or smaller bands attempting to sneak into your camps to spirit a bag or ten away.
    • A Tempting Target - Noble Edition - You brought this upon yourself.
      • If at war and the player is carrying a large amount of gold, the enemy may build up parties or armies for the specific purpose of attacking you for your wealth.
    • Lost Cargo - Whether by storm, fog, bog, river, or simply falling too far behind and raided, many things could go wrong when a supply train was involved.
      • The more weight a play has to travel with, including the weight of their wealth, the more likely it is that something will go wrong that could result in the loss of a pack animal or wagon which could, in turn, result in the loss of some of that wealth.
    • Petty Theft - You may not even be safe from your own subjects. If a soldier steals a coin or ten, who's going to count the lot to prove it?
      • Chances of monetary loss while traveling go up with increased amounts of coin on hand. There is a chance to catch, engage, and punish them.
    • Trust No One - A plot is afoot and you are the victim.
      • A small group of your troops may desert with a larger amount of gold with the possibility of it being led by one of your companions. There is a chance to catch, engage, and punish them.
    • We Don't nee a Lord Anyway - You're only one person after all.
      • When the player is carrying around the net worth of an entire kingdom, there is a chance that your entire party deserts and absconds with all of the gold you are carrying. There is a chance to catch, engage, and punish them... Assuming you are confident you can beat such odds.
    • Beggers- Why are you here?
      • Beggers are already in the game. They are named as such, give them a unique purpose already! A noble with a bulging coin purse should get accosted at least once when walking too close to a begger.
    • That's Not A Begger- There are, of course, the seedier areas...
      • When walking near gang members with a lot of coin jingling around, there should be a more threatening interaction, especially if you are not in a friendly town and on unfriendly terms with their leader.

  • Treasuries - A treasury would work much like a stash in that you could store your coin there. They would mainly exist in your towns and castles with the possibility of a hideout for the early game.
    • Benefits:
      • Safe storage so that you can run around the world without so much concern over what might happen to your fortune should you be captured in battle.
      • If implemented with the NPC nobles, a capture of a fief may provide a generous stash of their own.
      • The more fiefs you own, the more places you have to split your wealth so that it can't all be lost in one siege.
    • Risks:
      • There is always a risk of theft, no matter how small. The chances of theft would be greater in a town or hideout.
      • The loss of the fief containing the stash would, unfortunately, be the loss of that stash as well.
      • Fiefs become more valuable and greedy nobles will be more enticed to incite war in order to besiege them.

  • Investing - Investment is already part of the game with workshops, but why not allow investment into more than just those.
    • Horse traders: Investing would bring in higher tier horses, possibly importing from other regions of the world.
    • Smiths: Investing would make higher tier items more likely to appear
    • Food and trade goods: Higher amounts of goods that aren't local to the fief.
    • Caravans: Not running your own, but allowing those in the town to run more caravans at once.
    • Land: Investing in land around your outlying villages give them more room to grow and increase the quantity of goods they produce or even add a second product.
    • Other Nobles: Investing in your fellow nobles in order to assist them in paying their men and improving their own fiefs would be a way to increase relations and strengthen your allies.

  • Fief Upgrades - They already exist in the game, but they are not implemented as they should be. Upgrades should still cost productivity, but there should also be an associated cost for what is required to make the upgrade:
    • General Labor- Things didn't build themselves, human involvement was a necessity. Laborers could be pulled from anyone who needed something to do, from a child to run messages to the less educated who could haul materials.
      • The base cost would be general labor pulled from the populace that could make it from point a to point b at least once a day.
      • he reserve boost would be for picking out the more able of those available, ensuring faster movement of materials for swifter construction.
    • Construction Labor- The laborers who knew how to actually put it all together at the direction of those instructing them.
      • The base cost would go to hiring those who know which end of a hammer to hold. The direction it should be facing may cause some issues though.
      • The reserve boost would be looking for those who knew how to measure once and cut once.
    • Specialists- Engineers, craftsmen, masons, smiths. Trained craftsmen were a valuable asset, good ones even more so.
      • The base cost would factor in the cost of low-skill craftsmen who generally know what they are doing... usually.
      • The reserve boost would be allocating money to pay skilled craftsmen who could draw plans for a siege tower blindfolded.
    • Foremen- Those who oversee the construction.
      • The base cost would see that there was someone in place who could yell out orders to anyone who will listen.
      • The reserve boost would find someone who could make the construction zone work like a well-trained garrison.
    • Materials- How are you going to build anything without them?
      • The base cost starts purchasing the materials from the regular caravan shipments as they arrive.
      • The reserve boost allows for special orders to be made for specific materials for the expressed purpose of the project.
    • Delays- Things happen. Be it a general laborer or your specialized mason who can carve an entire wall from one boulder, people have their own issues that may cause setbacks. Here are some possible quests requiring player involvement to resolve situational issues that could have a chance to pop up.
      • Death- People die and projects get a little delayed depending on what their involvement was. A laborer will hardly be noticed, but a highly-skilled craftsman could set the job back quite a bit. Delays dependant upon the deceased's position stay in play no matter which choice is taken.
        • Choice A) Replace them and move on - Work continues immediately but at a slower pace. The workers may also be disgruntled by the lack of concern from their Lord. This may cause unrest in the workforce which increases the chances of other issues later.
        • Choice B) Pay for a small memorial service and give the workers a day off. - Production stops for a day, but the workers continue the next day with no ill will toward their Lord. Delays dependant upon the deceased's position stay in play.
      • Capture- Perhaps an enemy lord, bandits, or a gang took exception in your desire to improve your holdings. The capture of an important worker could certainly set your plans awry. Delays dependant upon the abductee's position stay in play no matter which choice is taken.
        • Choice A) Replace them and move on - Work continues immediately but at a slower pace. The workers may also be disgruntled by the lack of concern from their Lord. This may cause unrest in the workforce which increases the chances of other issues later.
        • Choice B) Pay a ransom to get the worker back. Work continues immediately, though slower for a short time while the badly treated abductee recovers.
        • Choice C) Send a small force to rescue the abductee. Sends one of your companions and x troops to attempt a rescue.
          • Success - Work continues immediately, though slower for a short time while the badly treated abductee recovers.
          • Failure: Prior options return.
        • Choice D) Attempt to rescue the abductee yourself. Spawns a hideout on the world map that the player can attack.
          • Success - Work continues immediately, though slower for a short time while the badly treated abductee recovers.
          • Failure: Prior options return.
      • Dissatisfaction- Everyone loves the jingle of coins in their pockets, your workers just appear to like it a bit more than what their wages provide.
        • Choice A) Tell them to get back to work or you'll halve their pay - Work continues immediately but at a slower pace. The workers may also be disgruntled by the lack of concern from their Lord. This may cause unrest in the workforce which increases the chances of other issues later.
        • Choice B) Pay a bit extra - Costs some coin, but gets everyone back to work with no penalties.
      • Disaster- It was all for nothing. An oversight, bad weather, subpar materials, or an act of god had the entire construct come crashing down upon the heads of those working on it. A good quarter of the men lay dead under the rubble as the others desperately try to dig them out with little hope. Even if they manage to pull themselves together though, the project will need to start over from the beginning.
        • Choice A) Scrap it and start over - Starts the project fresh with possible damage to prior improvements. New workers, new materials, more money. Prosperity hit.
        • Choice B) Salvage what you can of the materials and men - A delayed start, but less cost for materials and slightly faster progress due to the workers' familiarity with the project. Less chance of a repeat disaster.
      • Materials Shortage- Try as they might, your craftsmen cannot get the materials they need and the caravans refuse to put themselves at risk but carrying more goods than they can protect.
        • Choice A) Offer the caravaners more money so that they can hire the guards they need to feel safe.
        • Choice B) Get the materials yourself.

  • Keep Upgrades - Who wants to live in an empty castle? What are the chances that you're going to like the decor of another culture? Perhaps you only like specific things from multiple other cultures. This would have options to select different furniture and decor from around the world, and possibly some things specially made for the player.
    • Yes, you too can have a lovely, solid-gold, fountain right behind your throne! Why would you want one? So the other nobles will be green with envy at the opulent display of wealth! (Warning, may cause bladder control issues found to be related to the sounds of running water)
    • Not good enough you say? How about this genuine desert diamond which is lovingly displayed upon a cushion of the richest silk and held at the perfect height to catch the eye of anyone you are trying to impress thanks to this perfectly cut and engraved marble column. (Be Aware: Gem should be guarded at all times due to possible security measures being deemed as detracting from the splendor of the display and discarded)
    • Jewels not of interest? Perhaps you live for the exotic? Well, we have a lovely assortment of exotic animals from around Calradia and beyond. (Caution: Some animals in stock would rather maul a man's throat out than take an offering of meat)

  • Village Upgrades - I believe this has been covered elsewhere, and I will likely look for such a thread in the future to possibly add some ideas as there are far too many possibilities to keep this list as it currently stands to a reasonable length. I would note that, should village upgrade options become a possibility, my Ideas from above would likely work for those as well.

Okay, ending this now. I need to get some sleep so I can function for work (from home) tomorrow. This is just a 'quickly' pieced together list of possibilities that poured out of my head in the past few of hours. I welcome anyone to add to, and criticize, this as I am certain to do so myself as more ideas wiggle to the surface of my over-crowded grey matter.

 
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Diavolo

Knight
M&BWB
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About the sillyness of the "money has weight" argument that people keep bringing up in games where money is in coins:

Coins usually were made in different values, so that one would not be too encumbered. The price of a wheat in bannerlord implies that the denar shown is the lowest value of coin. (Like copper) so there would be also a silver coin (100 x copper) and a gold (100 x silver). So 1 million denars = 100 gold coins which if we assume a weight of 10 grams per gold coin (heavier than copper) would weigh one kilo. So negligible weight even for the player alone to carry. The reason why there are just denars and not copper, silver, and gold denars is because that is more practical since the game is digital.
 

Ackdam

Regular
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About the sillyness of the "money has weight" argument that people keep bringing up in games where money is in coins:

Coins usually were made in different values,...The reason why there are just denars and not copper, silver, and gold denars is because that is more practical since the game is digital.
I understand what you are trying to say, but your argument of practicality is invalid. There are many games where the currency is split into separate coin types. Just off the top of my head, I can name a few that do just that:

Some multiple denomination currency examples:
  • EverQuest (1&2): 1 platinum > 100 gold > 10,000 silver > 1,000,000 copper
  • World of Warcraft: : 1 gold > 100 silver > 10,000 copper
  • Terraria: 1 platinum > 100 gold > 10,000 silver > 1,000,000 copper
  • Tibia (weight 0.1): 1 crystal > 100 platinum > 10,000 gold
  • Dragon Age Origins: 1 gold > 100 silver > 10,000 copper

Since it could be a base 100 system, that makes calculation simple and it would be relatively simple to automatically change 100 copper to 1 silver instantly (or as instantly as the check would run whenever you gain or payout coin). I would consider myself a beginner programmer and even I could make such a system in a dozen or so minutes. I can already think of multiple ways to do so. It would be a few simple calculations that output to variables for each coin. Tack on a few GUI changes and you've solved a lot of the coin-weight argument. Since they have not implemented such a system though, I will make suggestions based upon the game as it, currently, visually stands.

There are many more that follow this example some of which also use multiple currencies types, currency with weight, alternative currency, tokens, tickets, etc. As far as my opinion goes, I don't understand why more games don't use multiple value currency systems. Adding weight is barely more effort. It would simply be assigning it to a variable and adding the total of that variable to the weight of the character. If they really wanted to press about the weight, they could force the player to have it exchanged rather than doing the exchange automatically as you earn money. Thus, the player could end up with something like 165 gold, 234 silver, and 54326 copper after slaughtering all of the bandits in the area which they would then need to lug to a town (or many if each town is limited in coin availability) to get everything exchanged over.

Here is some very simplified (as in: hopefully easy to follow) C# code on how the denominations could be totaled and weight applied. This exports the totals to the console and keeps the console open for reading, which wouldn't be there in a game. I kind of psudo-taught myself C# for this, so don't butcher me for syntax errors too harshly please (written and tested in the C# editor at: ,NET Fiddle):

C#:
public static void Main()
    {
        /*Using the random number 5734576235 as the player's current total coin defined as total_coin:
        In-game this would be a variable which would update based upon the palyer's current savings*/
        long total_coin = 5734576235;
       
        /*Calculating the total number of each coin with maximum conversion:
        This could be a completely seperate function*/
        long coin_gold = total_coin / 10000;
        long coin_silver = (total_coin % 10000) / 100;
        long coin_copper = (total_coin % 10000) % 100;
       
        //Calculating the total number of coins
        long coin_count = coin_gold + coin_silver + coin_copper;
       
        /*Calculating the weight based upon the number of each coin
        Weights based upon a google search of "what did a medieval <metal> coin weigh"
        Where <metal> was replaced with one of the three metal types concerned
        This could be a completely seperate function:*/
        double weight_gold = coin_gold * 4.5;
        double weight_silver = coin_silver * 1.7;
        double weight_copper = coin_copper * 1.2;
       
        /*Calculating the total weight of all of the coins:
        This variable could be added to the total weight of the party's inventory as a line item of Coinage*/
        double currency_weight = weight_gold + weight_silver + weight_copper;
       
        /*Displaying the results of the calculations, in this case to the console
        The game would pull these values directly to display them in their proper locations in the UI):*/
        Console.WriteLine("Coin Count: Gold - {0} | Silver - {1} | Copper - {2} | Total Coins - {3}", coin_gold, coin_silver, coin_copper, coin_count);
        Console.WriteLine("Coin Weight: Gold - {0} | Silver - {1} | Copper - {2} | Total Weight - {3}", weight_gold, weight_silver, weight_copper, currency_weight);
       
        //Keeps the console open for reading
        Console.Read();
    }
 
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GG Cannon

Sergeant
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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+1 definitely.
I've been feeling for a while that carrying around over 10M of gold and having nothing to do with it, specially when peace with a kingdom can be bought for 50 or so thousand, is ridiculous.

Also, on the topic about Management, I'd love to hear your thoughts on a recent post of mine if possible @Ackdam as I know you always provide insightful and well thought feedback on other's suggestions.
 

Marinxar

Regular
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+1 For ideas, and included a nice detailed financial overview of all resources and money changes.