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ECONOMY, PRODUCTION, SOCIAL STABILITY, ARMIES MAINTENANCE and EQUIPMENT MAINTENANCE

I believe that this economic system:

  • should be considered together with the other two threads

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • considered in its own right it would be fine.

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • Mostly okay (argue in comments section)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't think it's suitable and I will discuss this in the comments section.

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Users who are viewing this thread

INTRODUCTION:
Economics is a delicate, very delicate issue and we often tend to work on it with a mathematical approach linked to the economic world, but which often forgets a fundamental aspect: It is physics that governs the universe.
Conservation principals should always be kept in mind.
I'm not saying that in a game they should be applied literally, but at least have them as guidelines.
Specifically, here I propose an economic system that takes into account needs and production potential.
Established these two at the lowest levels, everything else is a consequence of these.
The levers to act on the system would not depend on arbitrary parameters set at random, but on the possible introduction of coherent mechanics that modify the economic structure based on the result that we propose to have.
This thread is closely linked to two other threads I propose: one deals with the deterioration of equipment and the other with logistics and supply lines, and I use the mechanics inherent in these threads to amortize 4 effects:
- the effect of snowballing through the need to "create and maintain the army", which implies a slowdown for the AI compared to the plans and thanks to the support lines I make it possible that an army from one part of the world cannot avoid planning logistics to attack a city on the other side of the world.
system that gives weak factions a chance to repel the invader.
- the ridiculously high price, spreading this cost over time in terms of maintenance.
- that of the uselessness of the low tier armor (which instead would buy some utility)
-the skill smithing, which acquires a value that is not indifferent to the other skills. it remains very useful for those who have it, but not indispensable for those who do not have it.
I'll leave you the links for the other 2 threads, so you'll get a clear idea of the whole system.

Now let's avoid going around the matter again and talk about the economic system.

ECONOMIC SYSTEM:

We assume that people need to buy goods because old ones are consumed, that they need to buy food because what they consume goes into used energy, and that to buy it they must have money, which they get from the sale of their production, production which requires energy and goods to be carried forward (tools, supplies, etc.).
The cycle is quite clear.
People live in cities, villages and castles and these have infrastructures suitable for all the needs that these people have.
So these people live with NEEDS to be satisfied through the fruits of PRODUCTION and to satisfy them they need GOODS, FOOD, INFRASTRUCTURES and they set OBJECTIVES in order to satisfy those needs.
These objectives must be achieved through the application of METHODS and finally outlining the DAILY FORECASTS and SEASONAL FORECASTS.
All this taking into account DEMOGRAPHY and SECURITY (or insecurity for accuracy), important factors that together with FOOD STABILITY and ECONOMIC STABILITY, contain the essence of SOCIAL STABILITY.

VILLAGES, CITIES AND CASTLES
INFRASTRUCTURE:
They must have some warehouses in which to put the food, consumer goods (supplies, pots, tools, clothes) they need and one in which to put the fruits of production.
therefore the warehouses are THREE:
FOOD WAREHOUSE
GOODS WAREHOUSE
PRODUCTION WAREHOUSE

USEFUL PARAMETERS OF THE PLACE
(village, castle, city):
- DAILY FOOD NEED according to the number of inhabitants and, if present, according to the type of production (the jobs are not all tiring in the same way).
- DAILY FOOD BALANCE = (PURCHASED FOOD - CONSUMED FOOD) in one day. The result will be added to the FOOD WAREHOUSE.
- SEASONAL FOOD BALANCE = sum of daily food budgets for all days of the season = (food bought - food consumed) in a season
- DAILY REQUIREMENT OF GOODS according to the population and type of production.
- DAILY BALANCE OF GOODS = (GOODS PURCHASED - GOODS CONSUMED) in one day. The result will be added to the GOODS WAREHOUSE.
- SEASONAL BALANCE OF GOODS = sum of the daily balance of goods for all the days of the season = (goods purchased - goods consumed) in a season
- PRODUCTION must depend on the number of inhabitants, on the RAW MATERIAL AVAILABLE (resource to be extracted for the villages) and therefore also on the SEASONS (for example agricultural production), FOOD STABILITY, ECONOMIC STABILITY and A PARTICULARLY GOOD the type of production (the pickaxe for the miners, the hoe for the growers, the hay for breeders and so on).
(of food and economic stability we will talk below in the "social stability" section)
- production prediction (daily and seasonal)
- also from the INFRASTRUCTURE section we obtain the following data: CURRENT FOOD from the FOOD WAREHOUSE, CURRENT GOODS from the GOODS WAREHOUSE and CURRENT PRODUCTION from the PRODUCTION WAREHOUSE.
- SOCIAL STABILITY, INSECURITY and stability prediction (we will talk more about it below)
- DEMOGRAPHY, demographic prediction
These parameters, or some of them, could be made to appear in the UI of the campaign map by using the alt key after passing the mouse over a village, city or castle or in the information screen of the place (the encyclopedia).
Clearly this information that must be acquired if these places are not owned by us and you need the appropriate skill to do it ... maybe a mix of trade, steward, engineering and roguery.
So what we do not actually know, does not appear on the screen, nor in the encyclopedia.
At most, the latest information about that place appears.

OBJECTIVE:
the village / city / castle has two types of objectives: SHORT-TERM (daily) and LONG-TERM (seasonal).

SHORT TERM (daily):
- reach the goal of having food under the teeth by the end of the day, therefore the daily requirement given by the individual requirement for the number of individuals must be met.
- have tax money at the end of the day (if the taxes are daily).

LONG TERM (seasonal):
- fill up the food warehouse for the season in which they have greater difficulty and when their production drops significantly.
- Have FOOD STABILITY in balance, ECONOMIC STABILITY in balance, zeroed INSECURITY.
- have the money to replenish supplies, tools and clothes for the most difficult season.
Seasonal forecasts are used to fill the warehouse with the aim of keeping safe from the point of view of food requirements and to pay taxes in difficult seasons.
- have a certain net profit (a multiple of the daily tax) to cope with emergencies.


METHOD:
- he method, linked to the objective, should be to produce at the lowest cost, sell with the lowest transport costs (wagons or other methods), fill the warehouse with food for the season in which you have the greatest difficulties, have goods of consumption in the warehouse (production tools, supplies, various pots and more for comfort, etc.), paying taxes, having stability (social and economic) and zeroed insecurity.
NOTE: This logic also applies to iron production -> smithing.
In this way, prices adjust themselves according to needs.


SOCIAL STABILITY:
Social stability is nothing but the happiness of the population and this can be understood as the tolerance threshold within which the population can endure a given situation: food shortages, shortages of goods, shortages of security.
So the variables to be introduced should be:
- SOCIAL TOLERANCE: a numerical bar that symbolizes the tolerance of the village with respect to its own conditions, RATES FROM -100 TO +100 (or in any case from -X to + X).
- FOOD STABILITY: [(k * FOOD) - DAILY FOOD NEED] / (population) per day
- ECONOMIC STABILITY: [(H * GOODS) - DAILY NEED GOODS] / (population) per day
- INSECURITY = W * (number of villagers attacked or killed or robbed) per season
The value relating to insecurity decreases over time.
A few perks in stewards, charms or anything else could speed up this reduction of insecurity or perhaps reduce its size while maintaining the times.

from which:

SOCIAL TOLERANCE (prevision) = SOCIAL TOLERANCE (current) + FOOD STABILITY + ECONOMIC STABILITY - INSECURITY + EXTERNAL FACTOR

the constants K, H and W are multipliers that can be linked to the perks related to governability.
K and H should normally start from 1 and if perk are taken for food and economic stability then K> 1 and H> 1.
I would also suggest linking K and H also to the VARIETY of food and goods.
In the case of W we start from a certain positive value and greater than or equal to 1 (it depends on how the developers decide) and with the right perks we decrease W.
The EXTERNAL FACTOR is nothing but any other factor that has nothing to do with the previous ones. It can assume positive or negative values.
When the tolerance is calculated at the end of the day (SOCIAL TOLERANCE prevision) these effects will occur:

If the TOLERANCE is 0, there are no advantages or disadvantages.
If the TOLERANCE is> 0 then influence is gained.
If the TOLERANCE is <0 then influence is lost.
If the TOLERANCE REACHES -100 A REVOLUTION EXPLOSES in the village / city / castle concerned and an intolerance penalty is added to the neighboring villages whose owner is the same or linked to the place where the revolt breaks out.
The values that are gained or lost will have to be established through the balance tests.

The inhabitants in revolt form an army of bandits who gather in one place (in case other villages also rebelled) and their goal is to conquer the territory to create a "fairer kingdom" or other motivations and dynamics of your choice.
The types of revolt I leave to decide who talks about it (therefore I suppose old clans or factions, new factions and c ... can be reborn)
Revolts can also occur for other reasons that I leave to your imagination and those who deal with revolt.

DEMOGRAPHY:
The population growth of the villages / castles / cities must depend on the well-being of the village (food, goods, security and money), therefore the population increases if it is doing well and is doing well if it lives peacefully thanks to the goods they can buy.

-If the SEASONAL FOOD BUDGET is negative (more consumption than earnings), the population will begin to leave adapting its number to the available food resources, so that the SEASONAL FOOD BUDGET PREVISION GOES IN BUDGET BALANCE (for the following season then).
-If the SEASONAL FOOD BUDGET is positive, then new people will be born until the SEASONAL FOOD BUDGET PREVISION GOES IN BUDGET BALANCE.
-can be recruited all those subjects who, if removed from the workforce, do not carry the previsions with a negative daily or seasonal balance.
-Recluting them forcibly clearly will lead to this negative balance and the consequences are obvious.
-If the population is zero, this will be generated in the following season with a number such that the next forecast is with a balanced budget.

BEFORE CONTINUING IT SHOULD BE INFORMED ABOUT THIS OTHER THREAD REGARDING THE MECHANICS OF DETERIORATION AND RESTORATION OF THE EQUIPMENT.

LINK THREAD ON DURABILITY
-->DURABILITY, DEGRADATION AND MAINTENACE SYSTEM,SMITHING SKILL AND PRICE BALANCE


PRICES OF: FOOD, GOODS AND EQUIPMENT (soldiers and armies).

The price of the equipment can be the market price.
PRICE = (COST OF RAW MATERIALS + LABOR COST) * P * R * S
where is it:
P> 1 is a constant linked to the gain that the merchant wants to have on the sold object and is linked to supply and demand.
R is a function related to the relationship between the merchant and the buying character.
S is a function related to skills and related perks.

I believe that the items that the army must buy must be reconsidered, such as arrows, darts, etc.
The price should therefore not be that of the game that exists now, but a real production cost, as described above.
This is because in this way this aspect would be found in the management of logistics and supply lines, of which I wrote a thread that I will report to you.

COST OF A SOLDIER:
The cost of a soldier is given by:
- purchase cost (a small sum of a few dozen coins)
- cost of equipment (depends on quality)
COST OF AN ARMY = sum of the cost of individual soldiers.

MAINTENANCE OF A SOLDIER AND AN ARMY:
the maintenance cost of a single soldier is given by:
- WAGES FOR WORKFORCE.
- WAGES FOR EQUIPMENT MAINTENANCE
.
the MAINTENANCE EQUIPMENT WAGES of an army is given by the sum of the maintenance of the single units.

This part is taken from the thread on durability and reported here:
<<<<

In order to support itself, the army needs not only food and rest, but also to maintain equipment.
The maintenance of the equipment depends on how good you are at saving, but with efficient use, the materials needed to do the maintenance of the equipment.
If the SMITHING skill allows us to save on the maintenance of OUR equipment through a more careful use of materials, then to save the army material you need a skill that allows the party blacksmiths to help the whole party manage maintenance .
So the STEWARD skill of our character and our quartermaster can manage the percentage with which the sum of the values of the SMITHING skill of each character of our party can be applied to the party itself in terms of saving resources for maintenance.
I chose the sum of the skill smithing values of all members of the party just to not "waste" any characters who had this ability.
At most you could insert a clause like: only the sum of the skill smithing of characters who have it over the value 50.
Or just the sum of the values of your character and the quartermaster.
Or maybe if you have another formula, offer it.
Once this formula is fixed, I present you the archetypes of the skills.

CHANGES TO SKILLS:

STEWARD
:
- (clan / faction leader and quartermaster): increase garrison size by X for lv
- (party leader and quartermaster): a Y percentage of the sum of the blacksmith skills of the party members is applied as a "smithing party skill", allowing to reduce the use of "H per lv" retention material

LEADERSHIP:
- (personal and quartermaster): increase party size by Z for lv
- (personal): moral party increase by K for lv
- (party leader): reduction of "WAGES FOR WORKFORCE"

The material savings bonuses apply only to the party, as I want to point out that we are the ones who have to keep it personally or have an external locksmith or a party member do this job.
(personal and quartermaster) or (clan / factio / party leader and quartermaster) means that the bonuses accumulate between these two characters (always it is not the same character to occupy the role of quartermaster, in this case nothing accumulates).

Then:
steward + smithing -> WAGES REDUCTION FOR EQUIPMENT MAINTENANCE for the army.
leadership -> REDUCTION WAGES FOR WORKFORCE for the army.
>>>>


SINGLE UNIT UPGRADE COST = NEW EQUIPMENT COST
(100% condition)
- THE OLD EQUIPMENT, WITH THE CONDITION IN WHICH IT IS FOUND, IS INSERTED IN THE INVENTORY.
(so you can sell it to regain or merge it and then sell the materials)
ARMY UPGRADE COST = SUM OF COST OF INDIVIDUAL UNITS

It is clear that the maintenance and the cost of the single unit is no longer fixed, but varies according to the price of its equipment and according to market laws (it will certainly fluctuate around certain values in a given geographic area if the economy turns out enough stable in that region).
So a good dealer will be able to save a lot on costs by going to buy new equipment where it costs little and selling old equipment where they pay more.

USEFUL CONSIDERATIONS:
-The caravan system can help with this by allowing you to automate these buying and selling processes.
- a system of roads, such that the speed in these turns out to be slightly higher than that on the bare terrain, would allow to "delineate" certain preferential routes, which can however be ignored (which the AI should also do to prove itself "intelligent")
- horses must consume food.

CONCLUSION:
The system I have described goes hand in hand with that on equipment deterioration and restoration.
The system based on logistics and the support line can also support this.
I enter a survey to get feedback on the appreciation or otherwise of this content.
Here I report the links to the two threads I told you about:
DURABILITY, DEGRADATION AND MAINTENACE SYSTEM,SMITHING SKILL AND PRICE BALANCE THREAD <--LINK
LOGISTICS AND SUPPLY LINES THREAD <---LINK

here is the megathread:ECONOMIC and LOGISTICS megathrad with poll link
 
Last edited:

heu3becteh

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Conservation principals should always be kept in mind.
Yes, I think that would improve the economy in game, making it considerably more interesting.
Even if tings will sometimes seem a little broken (and they should not be), it would be more interesting than seeing things spawn out of nowhere to make things seem "normal".

ECONOMIC SYSTEM
I feel that described system is interesting, but too complicated and requires a lot of new things being implemented, which seems unlikely while developers are trying to balance/tune things as they are now.

SOCIAL STABILITY
That is something that should be considered, I guess. Now the stability is lacking, and I can guess developers may plan to expand on it.

PRICES OF: FOOD, GOODS AND EQUIPMENT (soldiers and armies).

The price of the equipment can be the market price.
PRICE = (COST OF RAW MATERIALS + LABOR COST) * P * R * S
where is it:
P> 1 is a constant linked to the gain that the merchant wants to have on the sold object and is linked to supply and demand.
R is a function related to the relationship between the merchant and the buying character.
S is a function related to skills and related perks.
I think the prices do work fine now, except for demand not being defined (replaced by prosperity), while I think it should be.
Prices of ammunition for army and things like that could be the next step, but many players may be unpleased by things being too complicated. And it could require some micromanagement where there should not be, if implemented the bad way.

Generally this thread has some common points with that one (about economy).
 
I feel that described system is interesting, but too complicated and requires a lot of new things being implemented,
The system only changes some calculation formulas and uses simple formulas.
Some of the parameters expressed above are simple balance sheets that must be satisfied.
Perhaps the least simple part is the forecast, but for those it could be used an approximation through the use of the derivative with respect to time of the parameters relating to the purchase and consumption of food and goods.
(nothing complicated, the developers I suppose know how to do all this)
The work is more of programming (and therefore takes time).

but as you say:
which seems unlikely while developers are trying to balance/tune things as they are now.
I believe that in some cases, when a system is not strictly tied to physical and therefore budgetary laws, it is difficult to balance it precisely because the levers on which to act to do it are "unnatural", difficult to use or "with side effects" at each minimal change.
For this reason I suggested a system that was more "known" and therefore easier to study by means of mathematical analysis or economic studies.

That is something that should be considered, I guess. Now the stability is lacking, and I can guess developers may plan to expand on it.
As you can see, I tied social stability to economic stability as well as security, so I used the previously defined parameters, parameters not arbitrarily set, but whose performance depends on how the world evolves towards the search for such stability.
I think the prices do work fine now, except for demand not being defined (replaced by prosperity), while I think it should be.
I think so too, in fact above you can see that the demand coincides with (or may be a function of) daily and seasonal needs for food and goods.
what I wanted was to give the "physical" part of the economy a less arbitrary and abstract and more "material" structure.
After that, pricing formulas could be discussed, but at least there was a basis to work on.

Prices of ammunition for army and things like that could be the next step, but many players may be unpleased by things being too complicated. And it could require some micromanagement where there should not be, if implemented the bad way.
It is true, I cannot deny that too much micromanagement can be annoying, but as you say, it depends on whether this administrative part is well introduced or not.
In fact, the risk that we run for now with food is that this is only a "time interval" in which we must do what we intend to do before stocks are completely exhausted.
So you fill up your food inventory, go siege and since the player tends to do better than AI, he will fill up with food until the siege is over.
In short, food is likely to be quite "passive" in a war.
And we didn't take into account ammunition, which is not considered.

This thread deals with conomia and production, but you can see two other links in which we talk about logistics and support lines in one and maintenance of equipment and smithing skills in the other.
All three threads are tied.

Returning to food (as a main example, but the speech also applies to ammunition and everything that can come to your mind), through the logistics tread I tend to balance the ability to transport resources personally with your party by building support lines ( using wagons and camps) who take on that task instead.
So the personal transport capacity is reduced, as the cost would be to have a reduced speed and the need to keep the livestock for transport and this task is spread on these support lines (consisting of means, so they are not abstract)

And those lines must be defended, otherwise you risk running out of resources during an invasion.
In short, I make resources an ACTIVE element in a war.

In this sense, this micromanagment becomes less boring, given that it is quite important in order to plan an invasion or to defend against an army that is 4 times yours and you don't know how to deal with it (so cut the support lines and then hold on, until their scarce resources force them to give up)

Generally this thread has some common points with that one (about economy).
I agree.
Many elements are similar in both threads but clearly have different names while performing the same function (the granary is my food warehouse for you).
I noticed the analysis of prices and the fact that, as you reiterated here too, demand should be taken into consideration.
In your thread you consider it equal to prosperity, but I would tend to separate them.
In fact, the demand for different products is not linked to prosperity in the same way.
For example, if a country is economically wealthy and prosperity is high, there will be a tendency to have a higher demand for goods that are not of primary necessity and with regard to food, demand will tend to move towards more valuable foods.
But in a country in poverty, where prosperity is low, the demand for food will still be high (clearly shifted towards less valuable foods).

I have not written it explicitly in my system, but in the case of different factions that have different cultural approaches, there may also be a diversity of product needs.

For example:
Battanians say they are more likely to buy bread and weapons than silk.
Having a less rigid climate than sturgia, they will prefer cotton to wool and silk will not care much for them.
The empire seems instead more inclined to buy everything and above all to show off high quality goods (if we think of the senators)
The aserai could be more similar to the empire and perhaps interested in having products made in the north
The sturgia in part more similar to the battanians, that is, less frills and more useful things like weapons and iron, but with a tendency to buy more wool and cotton if their production of these two is not adequate for the needs.
Furthermore, their climate does not allow them to grow easily, therefore they will tend to have a fairly substantial demand for food from agriculture.
These are just examples, maybe something about some culture I did wrong, in case forgive me :smile:

About the prices I would have to add something that is often forgotten .. and I have not written it explicitly, so I should remedy it.
Energy.
Everything is done with energy and to have energy.
The farmer cultivates the land by spending energy and in order not to starve and not always eat the same stuff he sells his products and with the money he buys the food he needs to replenish that energy.
In a sense, the need for food is linked to the need to replenish the energy consumed.
Of course, it's not just about energy, it's about vitamins, proteins etc.
But let's synthesize everything with energy, since to do this stuff you always need energy.
So more than our character, citizens should have a sort of coffin of energy that is consumed based on the type of production (those who work with iron tend to spend more energy than those who produce beer).
From this energy consumption per unit of product produced, we deduce how much food must be consumed to replenish it.
Through the same calculation in relation to food production, the price of such food can be estimated.
On the basis of the quantity of energy replenished by a certain food with respect to another, different costs can be established (for the same quantity) from which, through economic laws linked to demand and supply, the prices of these foods are deduced.
The prices of everything else should be placed in relation to the prices of primary goods.

I apologize if the response has been long, but I wanted to provide a constructive argument that can be useful for your thread.
 

heu3becteh

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Couldn't energy be hidden inside of increased value/cost of goods after production compared to the cost of raw material used?
I think that simplification like that is convenient. Maybe you did mean something ike that..
I do not think that blacksmith should eat much more than other citizen, if you mean that?

Demand depending on the culture is something interesting too.
Demand as a thing (not sinonimous to prosperity) should be introduced first though.
In your thread you consider it equal to prosperity, but I would tend to separate them.
That is how it does work now. And I think the economy will gain much from proper demand.
That and conservation principles, together with larger stock amounts, should make economy much more interesting.
Geographycal differences will occur naturally then and will become much more stable, distinct.
 

kyrian35

Regular
J'aimerais que TW ajoute ceci à bannerlord.
Vos idées sont très bonnes et ajoutent de la complexité, ce qui est très bien, mais TW avait abandonné beaucoup d'idées sur la gestion (royaume, villes, château, villages) car elles pensaient que cela gênerait les joueurs (je pense plus aux nouveaux joueurs)
 

johnny keitz

Recruit
INTRODUCTION:
Economics is a delicate, very delicate issue and we often tend to work on it with a mathematical approach linked to the economic world, but which often forgets a fundamental aspect: It is physics that governs the universe.
Conservation principals should always be kept in mind.
I'm not saying that in a game they should be applied literally, but at least have them as guidelines.
Specifically, here I propose an economic system that takes into account needs and production potential.
Established these two at the lowest levels, everything else is a consequence of these.
The levers to act on the system would not depend on arbitrary parameters set at random, but on the possible introduction of coherent mechanics that modify the economic structure based on the result that we propose to have.
This thread is closely linked to two other threads I propose: one deals with the deterioration of equipment and the other with logistics and supply lines, and I use the mechanics inherent in these threads to amortize 4 effects:
- the effect of snowballing through the need to "create and maintain the army", which implies a slowdown for the AI compared to the plans and thanks to the support lines I make it possible that an army from one part of the world cannot avoid planning logistics to attack a city on the other side of the world.
system that gives weak factions a chance to repel the invader.
- the ridiculously high price, spreading this cost over time in terms of maintenance.
- that of the uselessness of the low tier armor (which instead would buy some utility)
-the skill smithing, which acquires a value that is not indifferent to the other skills. it remains very useful for those who have it, but not indispensable for those who do not have it.
I'll leave you the links for the other 2 threads, so you'll get a clear idea of the whole system.

Now let's avoid going around the matter again and talk about the economic system.

ECONOMIC SYSTEM:

We assume that people need to buy goods because old ones are consumed, that they need to buy food because what they consume goes into used energy, and that to buy it they must have money, which they get from the sale of their production, production which requires energy and goods to be carried forward (tools, supplies, etc.).
The cycle is quite clear.
People live in cities, villages and castles and these have infrastructures suitable for all the needs that these people have.
So these people live with NEEDS to be satisfied through the fruits of PRODUCTION and to satisfy them they need GOODS, FOOD, INFRASTRUCTURES and they set OBJECTIVES in order to satisfy those needs.
These objectives must be achieved through the application of METHODS and finally outlining the DAILY FORECASTS and SEASONAL FORECASTS.
All this taking into account DEMOGRAPHY and SECURITY (or insecurity for accuracy), important factors that together with FOOD STABILITY and ECONOMIC STABILITY, contain the essence of SOCIAL STABILITY.

VILLAGES, CITIES AND CASTLES
INFRASTRUCTURE:
They must have some warehouses in which to put the food, consumer goods (supplies, pots, tools, clothes) they need and one in which to put the fruits of production.
therefore the warehouses are THREE:
FOOD WAREHOUSE
GOODS WAREHOUSE
PRODUCTION WAREHOUSE

USEFUL PARAMETERS OF THE PLACE
(village, castle, city):
- DAILY FOOD NEED according to the number of inhabitants and, if present, according to the type of production (the jobs are not all tiring in the same way).
- DAILY FOOD BALANCE = (PURCHASED FOOD - CONSUMED FOOD) in one day. The result will be added to the FOOD WAREHOUSE.
- SEASONAL FOOD BALANCE = sum of daily food budgets for all days of the season = (food bought - food consumed) in a season
- DAILY REQUIREMENT OF GOODS according to the population and type of production.
- DAILY BALANCE OF GOODS = (GOODS PURCHASED - GOODS CONSUMED) in one day. The result will be added to the GOODS WAREHOUSE.
- SEASONAL BALANCE OF GOODS = sum of the daily balance of goods for all the days of the season = (goods purchased - goods consumed) in a season
- PRODUCTION must depend on the number of inhabitants, on the RAW MATERIAL AVAILABLE (resource to be extracted for the villages) and therefore also on the SEASONS (for example agricultural production), FOOD STABILITY, ECONOMIC STABILITY and A PARTICULARLY GOOD the type of production (the pickaxe for the miners, the hoe for the growers, the hay for breeders and so on).
(of food and economic stability we will talk below in the "social stability" section)
- production prediction (daily and seasonal)
- also from the INFRASTRUCTURE section we obtain the following data: CURRENT FOOD from the FOOD WAREHOUSE, CURRENT GOODS from the GOODS WAREHOUSE and CURRENT PRODUCTION from the PRODUCTION WAREHOUSE.
- SOCIAL STABILITY, INSECURITY and stability prediction (we will talk more about it below)
- DEMOGRAPHY, demographic prediction
These parameters, or some of them, could be made to appear in the UI of the campaign map by using the alt key after passing the mouse over a village, city or castle or in the information screen of the place (the encyclopedia).
Clearly this information that must be acquired if these places are not owned by us and you need the appropriate skill to do it ... maybe a mix of trade, steward, engineering and roguery.
So what we do not actually know, does not appear on the screen, nor in the encyclopedia.
At most, the latest information about that place appears.

OBJECTIVE:
the village / city / castle has two types of objectives: SHORT-TERM (daily) and LONG-TERM (seasonal).

SHORT TERM (daily):
- reach the goal of having food under the teeth by the end of the day, therefore the daily requirement given by the individual requirement for the number of individuals must be met.
- have tax money at the end of the day (if the taxes are daily).

LONG TERM (seasonal):
- fill up the food warehouse for the season in which they have greater difficulty and when their production drops significantly.
- Have FOOD STABILITY in balance, ECONOMIC STABILITY in balance, zeroed INSECURITY.
- have the money to replenish supplies, tools and clothes for the most difficult season.
Seasonal forecasts are used to fill the warehouse with the aim of keeping safe from the point of view of food requirements and to pay taxes in difficult seasons.
- have a certain net profit (a multiple of the daily tax) to cope with emergencies.


METHOD:
- he method, linked to the objective, should be to produce at the lowest cost, sell with the lowest transport costs (wagons or other methods), fill the warehouse with food for the season in which you have the greatest difficulties, have goods of consumption in the warehouse (production tools, supplies, various pots and more for comfort, etc.), paying taxes, having stability (social and economic) and zeroed insecurity.
NOTE: This logic also applies to iron production -> smithing.
In this way, prices adjust themselves according to needs.


SOCIAL STABILITY:
Social stability is nothing but the happiness of the population and this can be understood as the tolerance threshold within which the population can endure a given situation: food shortages, shortages of goods, shortages of security.
So the variables to be introduced should be:
- SOCIAL TOLERANCE: a numerical bar that symbolizes the tolerance of the village with respect to its own conditions, RATES FROM -100 TO +100 (or in any case from -X to + X).
- FOOD STABILITY: [(k * FOOD) - DAILY FOOD NEED] / (population) per day
- ECONOMIC STABILITY: [(H * GOODS) - DAILY NEED GOODS] / (population) per day
- INSECURITY = W * (number of villagers attacked or killed or robbed) per season
The value relating to insecurity decreases over time.
A few perks in stewards, charms or anything else could speed up this reduction of insecurity or perhaps reduce its size while maintaining the times.

from which:

SOCIAL TOLERANCE (prevision) = SOCIAL TOLERANCE (current) + FOOD STABILITY + ECONOMIC STABILITY - INSECURITY + EXTERNAL FACTOR

the constants K, H and W are multipliers that can be linked to the perks related to governability.
K and H should normally start from 1 and if perk are taken for food and economic stability then K> 1 and H> 1.
I would also suggest linking K and H also to the VARIETY of food and goods.
In the case of W we start from a certain positive value and greater than or equal to 1 (it depends on how the developers decide) and with the right perks we decrease W.
The EXTERNAL FACTOR is nothing but any other factor that has nothing to do with the previous ones. It can assume positive or negative values.
When the tolerance is calculated at the end of the day (SOCIAL TOLERANCE prevision) these effects will occur:

If the TOLERANCE is 0, there are no advantages or disadvantages.
If the TOLERANCE is> 0 then influence is gained.
If the TOLERANCE is <0 then influence is lost.
If the TOLERANCE REACHES -100 A REVOLUTION EXPLOSES in the village / city / castle concerned and an intolerance penalty is added to the neighboring villages whose owner is the same or linked to the place where the revolt breaks out.
The values that are gained or lost will have to be established through the balance tests.

The inhabitants in revolt form an army of bandits who gather in one place (in case other villages also rebelled) and their goal is to conquer the territory to create a "fairer kingdom" or other motivations and dynamics of your choice.
The types of revolt I leave to decide who talks about it (therefore I suppose old clans or factions, new factions and c ... can be reborn)
Revolts can also occur for other reasons that I leave to your imagination and those who deal with revolt.

DEMOGRAPHY:
The population growth of the villages / castles / cities must depend on the well-being of the village (food, goods, security and money), therefore the population increases if it is doing well and is doing well if it lives peacefully thanks to the goods they can buy.

-If the SEASONAL FOOD BUDGET is negative (more consumption than earnings), the population will begin to leave adapting its number to the available food resources, so that the SEASONAL FOOD BUDGET PREVISION GOES IN BUDGET BALANCE (for the following season then).
-If the SEASONAL FOOD BUDGET is positive, then new people will be born until the SEASONAL FOOD BUDGET PREVISION GOES IN BUDGET BALANCE.
-can be recruited all those subjects who, if removed from the workforce, do not carry the previsions with a negative daily or seasonal balance.
-Recluting them forcibly clearly will lead to this negative balance and the consequences are obvious.
-If the population is zero, this will be generated in the following season with a number such that the next forecast is with a balanced budget.

BEFORE CONTINUING IT SHOULD BE INFORMED ABOUT THIS OTHER THREAD REGARDING THE MECHANICS OF DETERIORATION AND RESTORATION OF THE EQUIPMENT.

LINK THREAD ON DURABILITY
-->DURABILITY, DEGRADATION AND MAINTENACE SYSTEM,SMITHING SKILL AND PRICE BALANCE


PRICES OF: FOOD, GOODS AND EQUIPMENT (soldiers and armies).

The price of the equipment can be the market price.
PRICE = (COST OF RAW MATERIALS + LABOR COST) * P * R * S
where is it:
P> 1 is a constant linked to the gain that the merchant wants to have on the sold object and is linked to supply and demand.
R is a function related to the relationship between the merchant and the buying character.
S is a function related to skills and related perks.

I believe that the items that the army must buy must be reconsidered, such as arrows, darts, etc.
The price should therefore not be that of the game that exists now, but a real production cost, as described above.
This is because in this way this aspect would be found in the management of logistics and supply lines, of which I wrote a thread that I will report to you.

COST OF A SOLDIER:
The cost of a soldier is given by:
- purchase cost (a small sum of a few dozen coins)
- cost of equipment (depends on quality)
COST OF AN ARMY = sum of the cost of individual soldiers.

MAINTENANCE OF A SOLDIER AND AN ARMY:
the maintenance cost of a single soldier is given by:
- WAGES FOR WORKFORCE.
- WAGES FOR EQUIPMENT MAINTENANCE
.
the MAINTENANCE EQUIPMENT WAGES of an army is given by the sum of the maintenance of the single units.

This part is taken from the thread on durability and reported here:
<<<<

In order to support itself, the army needs not only food and rest, but also to maintain equipment.
The maintenance of the equipment depends on how good you are at saving, but with efficient use, the materials needed to do the maintenance of the equipment.
If the SMITHING skill allows us to save on the maintenance of OUR equipment through a more careful use of materials, then to save the army material you need a skill that allows the party blacksmiths to help the whole party manage maintenance .
So the STEWARD skill of our character and our quartermaster can manage the percentage with which the sum of the values of the SMITHING skill of each character of our party can be applied to the party itself in terms of saving resources for maintenance.
I chose the sum of the skill smithing values of all members of the party just to not "waste" any characters who had this ability.
At most you could insert a clause like: only the sum of the skill smithing of characters who have it over the value 50.
Or just the sum of the values of your character and the quartermaster.
Or maybe if you have another formula, offer it.
Once this formula is fixed, I present you the archetypes of the skills.

CHANGES TO SKILLS:

STEWARD
:
- (clan / faction leader and quartermaster): increase garrison size by X for lv
- (party leader and quartermaster): a Y percentage of the sum of the blacksmith skills of the party members is applied as a "smithing party skill", allowing to reduce the use of "H per lv" retention material

LEADERSHIP:
- (personal and quartermaster): increase party size by Z for lv
- (personal): moral party increase by K for lv
- (party leader): reduction of "WAGES FOR WORKFORCE"

The material savings bonuses apply only to the party, as I want to point out that we are the ones who have to keep it personally or have an external locksmith or a party member do this job.
(personal and quartermaster) or (clan / factio / party leader and quartermaster) means that the bonuses accumulate between these two characters (always it is not the same character to occupy the role of quartermaster, in this case nothing accumulates).

Then:
steward + smithing -> WAGES REDUCTION FOR EQUIPMENT MAINTENANCE for the army.
leadership -> REDUCTION WAGES FOR WORKFORCE for the army.
>>>>


SINGLE UNIT UPGRADE COST = NEW EQUIPMENT COST
(100% condition)
- THE OLD EQUIPMENT, WITH THE CONDITION IN WHICH IT IS FOUND, IS INSERTED IN THE INVENTORY.
(so you can sell it to regain or merge it and then sell the materials)
ARMY UPGRADE COST = SUM OF COST OF INDIVIDUAL UNITS

It is clear that the maintenance and the cost of the single unit is no longer fixed, but varies according to the price of its equipment and according to market laws (it will certainly fluctuate around certain values in a given geographic area if the economy turns out enough stable in that region).
So a good dealer will be able to save a lot on costs by going to buy new equipment where it costs little and selling old equipment where they pay more.

USEFUL CONSIDERATIONS:
-The caravan system can help with this by allowing you to automate these buying and selling processes.
- a system of roads, such that the speed in these turns out to be slightly higher than that on the bare terrain, would allow to "delineate" certain preferential routes, which can however be ignored (which the AI should also do to prove itself "intelligent")
- horses must consume food.

CONCLUSION:
The system I have described goes hand in hand with that on equipment deterioration and restoration.
The system based on logistics and the support line can also support this.
I enter a survey to get feedback on the appreciation or otherwise of this content.
Here I report the links to the two threads I told you about:
DURABILITY, DEGRADATION AND MAINTENACE SYSTEM,SMITHING SKILL AND PRICE BALANCE THREAD <--LINK
LOGISTICS AND SUPPLY LINES THREAD <---LINK

here is the megathread:ECONOMIC and LOGISTICS megathrad with poll link
maintaining the gear of all your soldiers seems a bit too complex for the scope of this game though.
 
maintaining the gear of all your soldiers seems a bit too complex for the scope of this game though
I am not saying that the player must do it by maintaining the equipment of the individual soldier, but as a maintenance process that requires less micromanagement.
The party screen should give you information regarding the average equipment condition of group x of soldiers.
Want to know how the infantry are combined?
go to party, click on their group and the information will appear on the right, telling you that the average equipment condition is X.
If X is low, just get the best equipment and give it to the troops (spoils of war for example), or go to the blacksmiths (if you don't already have them) and they'll take care of it (with the related costs).

From the way I have described it to you, doesn't it seem simpler than it appears?
 
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