Economy HotIfx did the opposite

[Schlarkenstein]

Thanks. A save game helps much.

Ironically, the game crashed as I attempted to make a new save game for you. (Unrelated to this issue)

You will receive the crash dump shortly. Here is the identifier:

I just re-created the crash again:

Steps:

1. Go to menu > Save game as > Create new save game

2. Name the game something like: "This is a test to see if the game crashes again"

3. Select the text by clicking and dragging the mouse sideways << This should crash the game.

 

[Flesson19]

Thanks. A save game helps much.

Simply put, Armies or even regular lords are taking way more food than before from towns leaving them with hardly anything or taking it all, then starving soon after leaving town.
It seems they are consuming more food than normal so they need to buy more from towns and that means they start starving really fast and losing troops. But I will record the problem and get a post for you.
I know they can take a lot of food, but hardly ever did they take everything from a town before.
Ill go record it now and edit it so it shows exactly what I am talking about

Getting uploaded now will be any minute

 

[Flesson19]

I cannot understand problem you mentioned. Ai armies can buy hundreds of food. This is not problem and nothing changed there in latest patches. If you make a video explaining what is broken by showing problems maybe it helps. This way I cannot understand what is problem.

It appears they are eating food to fast and starving quick, then taking food constantly from towns leaving little or no supply. Let me know if you want save game file I didn't keep your email address, was hoping this could get fixed before the weekend, because both of my Youtube play throughs are not playable because of this

 

[Phactos]

It was my statement that mexxico didn't understand? Let me use an example, if I assemble an army with parties more than 2 days or more from me, they will change to the follow state and will follow me until they get to the destination. The problem is, this parties may not have enough food to get to my army, there should be an exception in the code were the army will buy food in a nearby city/village while they are inside the follow state, the way it is now most of them are going to be wiped before getting to my army anyway thanks to starvation. I hope it got clear now, I'm not a native english speaker so sometimes my explanation may seem a bit confusing.

 

[Flesson19]

It was my statement that mexxico didn't understand? Let me use an example, if I assemble an army with parties more than 2 days or more from me, they will change to the follow state and will follow me until they get to the destination. The problem is, this parties may not have enough food to get to my army, there should be an exception in the code were the army will buy food in a nearby city/village while they are inside the follow state, the way it is now most of them are going to be wiped before getting to my army anyway thanks to starvation. I hope it got clear now, I'm not a native english speaker so sometimes my explanation may seem a bit confusing.

Yes they are starving because they are eating food faster and since they are buying more food than normal then towns are real low on food, our 2 situations are related, but my video shows what is happening, I found one quick and they starve, buy food and starve again. When you call for vasslas to join you they can starve themselves out before they get to you, I have seen one of my companions I called to me who was 2 days away and when he got to me it said he had 0 troops even though it shows in clan party screen he had 154, this is just one example of what is going on, I could sit here all day and record this happening multiple times and edit it and give you a collection of 20-30 times you see this.

 

[Phactos]

Yes they are starving because they are eating food faster and since they are buying more food than normal then towns are real low on food, our 2 situations are related, but my video shows what is happening, I found one quick and they starve, buy food and starve again. When you call for vasslas to join you they can starve themselves out before they get to you, I have seen one of my companions I called to me who was 2 days away and when he got to me it said he had 0 troops even though it shows in clan party screen he had 154, this is just one example of what is going on, I could sit here all day and record this happening multiple times and edit it and give you a collection of 20-30 times you see this.

I'm not sure if they are eating more food, but it clear that there isn’t enough supply.

 

[Flesson19]

How to win Bannelord, my group of 188 troops finds an army, wait a day or 2 for them to starve, then when they under 200 attack and take 7 or 8 Lord prisoners, after battle choose which of the 800 prisoners that are there, then look for next army and keep doing it.

 

[Flesson19]

@mexxico You get that?

 

[mexxico]

It appears they are eating food to fast and starving quick, then taking food constantly from towns leaving little or no supply. Let me know if you want save game file I didn't keep your email address, was hoping this could get fixed before the weekend, because both of my Youtube play throughs are not playable because of this

Thanks. I watched. Can you send save game of times you recorded. I will visit all towns and check food amounts.

 

[Flesson19]

Thanks. I watched. Can you send save game of times you recorded. I will visit all towns and check food amounts.

Ok sent to your email, but towns aren't the problem you can see lords are starving fast even after visiting towns, it's like the are using food way too fast, unless it's just towns aren't producing enough so there isn't enough to buy. I don't know illl let you handle it just was praying it would get done before the weekend.. Something is wrong, I know it 100% just not exactly what it is, but as you can see from video, that is happening all over. Good luck please find the problem, I have faith in you!!!!!!!!!

 

[mexxico]

@Schlarkenstein I examined your save file. Your case was according to you :

I am sending through two save game files: I am following an army as it eventually starves and then disbands.

1. Before Starving - You will see the army that I will follow. It seems to have enough food and eventually decides to head towards epicrotea. (I also saw it stop at one neutral village, though I couldn't tell if it bought food or not)

2. Started Starving - This is where the army begins to starve. The army was in the middle of building siege weapons in order to attack epicrotea but stopped and began to run away. (I also noticed that before sieging epicrotea, the army attempted to siege 2-3 other castles first and kept changing its mind before eventually deciding to attack epicrotea. - This indecision may also be leading to using more food quicker). - If you follow behind the army in this save you will see it starve and eventually disband

Ultimately, this army doesn't achieve much and just leaves a lot of weakened warbands on the map.

Yes the army you follow have 5-6 days of food at start of save file. Problem is they are about 800 people and when they go near Epicrotea they are not so powerfull aganist defenders in castle (because there are about 200 people and Epicrotea wall level is highest) so they cannot start assault. They continue making siege new equipments for days to lower settlement advantage at autocalculation and after some point they have no food and start starving and give up siege. This is not very weird case. It can happen in game time to time. I cannot guarentee this will not happen anytime.

To make this happen rarer, I changed some codes so if besiegers are close to finish all their foods they are now more eager to start assault. So even odds are not so good even its not guarenteed they will win siege fight they start assault now. It can be also good for gameplay because all sieges should not end with success. Some should end with defender victory even there is no outside defenders reach fortification. This should be rare of course. Also one another problem causes this army to finish all their food is when they start besieging there are nearby defender parties with small sizes. Defenders started to gather. These parties are also in calculation. Means their existance reduces score of besieging Epicratea. And after 3th or 4th or 5th party come closer they were changing mind and they are targeting another fortification which is safer. This was causing giving up sieges too much and changing too much target. During travel one fortification to another they were finishing their food. I changed a code to reduce this to happen also. If total strength of around parties are lower than 1/3 of our strength now their effect will be 0. After this effect will start to reduce score of continue siege. For example if their power is 2/3 of our strength then only 1/3 will be effected previously this effect was proportional (1/3x = 1/3 effect, 2/3x = 2/3x effect, now 1/3x = 0 effect, 2/3x = 1/3x effect). Also I changed one more part. Now food amount is more important in determining making hostile action or not so if food is risky they tend to make other non-hostile actions more.

All these changes will be effected in next hotfix. Things will be a bit better. This is why I want your save games in weird situations. It is so easy when you have save files of weird / undesired cases.

Now I started examining @Flesson19's save file.

 

[Oakenlix]

Thanks Mexxico, appreciate your approach to such stuff.

 

[Flesson19]

Thank you sir, much much appreciate, i can start my play throughs again when it hits, you are da man
muchas gracias y te agradecemos
But I'm sure it's just a nickname, maybe German, mein Freund

 

[cyberonn]

Now food amount is more important in determining making hostile action or not so if food is risky they tend to make other non-hostile actions more.

How about armies plan their actions and buy enough food for that plan before attacking? Do they actually do food planning or will they do in the future? It would be ideal if they considered the distance between where they are and where they want to attack, how much it would take to capture the town/castle, how much time is needed to go back, some additional food for safety factor, maybe more food if the plan is to attack multiple cities etc.

 

[mexxico]

Thank you sir, much much appreciate, i can start my play throughs again when it hits, you are da man
muchas gracias y te agradecemos
But I'm sure it's just a nickname, maybe German, mein Freund

Its just a nickname I am Turkish too as 80-90% of company.

By the way thanks for very clear explanation of problem in your video. Yes I accept it is a problem and will try to fix it. Problem here is not lords taking too much food but total food in world is less than it should be at late game.

I will check if it is regional or general world situation first and will look if it is passive thing or will continue years.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

@Schlarkenstein I examined your save file. Your case was according to you :




Yes the army you follow have 5-6 days of food at start of save file. Problem is they are about 800 people and when they go near Epicrotea they are not so powerfull aganist defenders in castle (because there are about 200 people and Epicrotea wall level is highest) so they cannot start assault. They continue making siege new equipments for days to lower settlement advantage at autocalculation and after some point they have no food and start starving and give up siege. This is not very weird case. It can happen in game time to time. I cannot guarentee this will not happen anytime.

To make this happen rarer, I changed some codes so if besiegers are close to finish all their foods they are now more eager to start assault. So even odds are not so good even its not guarenteed they will win siege fight they start assault now. It can be also good for gameplay because all sieges should not end with success. Some should end with defender victory even there is no outside defenders reach fortification. This should be rare of course. Also one another problem causes this army to finish all their food is when they start besieging there are nearby defender parties with small sizes. Defenders started to gather. These parties are also in calculation. Means their existance reduces score of besieging Epicratea. And after 3th or 4th or 5th party come closer they were changing mind and they are targeting another fortification which is safer. This was causing giving up sieges too much and changing too much target. During travel one fortification to another they were finishing their food. I changed a code to reduce this to happen also. If total strength of around parties are lower than 1/3 of our strength now their effect will be 0. After this effect will start to reduce score of continue siege. For example if their power is 2/3 of our strength then only 1/3 will be effected previously this effect was proportional (1/3x = 1/3 effect, 2/3x = 2/3x effect, now 1/3x = 0 effect, 2/3x = 1/3x effect). Also I changed one more part. Now food amount is more important in determining making hostile action or not so if food is risky they tend to make other non-hostile actions more.

All these changes will be effected in next hotfix. Things will be a bit better. This is why I want your save games in weird situations. It is so easy when you have save files of weird / undesired cases.

Now I started examining @Flesson19's save file.

Thank you, I think this is a very important point! Part of the problem with gameplay was never getting to defend a siege because the enemy AI army was too smart and always knew when was the perfect moment to stop attacking. So often a player would show up to try and defend but the AI would give up and run away. Any way to increase the opportunities for the player to be involved in a defense that is winnable, is a good thing.

Another note I think the difference in defenders bonus in auto calc vs how hard it is to actually defend in scene is making gameplay feel worse. An example: An enemy of 600 men is sieging a castle of 150 men and I show up and enter the castle with 100 men (losing ~30 to entering, 70 get in). Now that the forces are 600 vs 220 the attackers break off and leave because they would lose the auto calc battle, but if that fight was to go into scene, there is a good chance the attackers would actually win and it would be an epic defense to stop them. Instead they leave immediately and you had to sacrifice men to not even defend the siege, which is frustrating. The only way I've gotten to defend sieges that were winnable as defenders is when the battle had already started and the AI had no choice to leave.

I think your solution to make them a little dumber and willing to make mistakes is a great first step to letting the player actually get to defend winnable fights. But I think the real solution comes from fixing the siege scenes to give the defenders a bigger advantage (not your area of course). Worst case if that isn't going to happen/possible you may need to start rethinking garrison size/defenders auto-calc bonus. I think players want more experiences like this

 

[mexxico]

I first started examining your save's game from Aseria towns and their food amounts do not seem that low. Ok. it can be better but not so bad. I continue examining.

 

[mexxico]

Another note I think the difference in defenders bonus in auto calc vs how hard it is to actually defend in scene is making gameplay feel worse. An example: An enemy of 600 men is sieging a castle of 150 men and I show up and enter the castle with 100 men (losing ~30 to entering, 70 get in). Now that the forces are 600 vs 220 the attackers break off and leave because they would lose the auto calc battle, but if that fight was to go into scene, there is a good chance the attackers would actually win and it would be an epic defense to stop them. Instead they leave immediately and you had to sacrifice men to not even defend the siege, which is frustrating. The only way I've gotten to defend sieges that were winnable as defenders is when the battle had already started and the AI had no choice to leave.

Yes you are right. AI should not be that logical. This can damage gameplay. They should start assault even they will lose in autocalc (especially if player is at defender side). I will continue examining this. Because it is important.

 

[Flesson19]

I first started examining from Aseria towns and their food amounts do not seem that low. Ok. it can be better but not so bad.

Now if a few lords or an army comes in they clear it out and they seem to run out of food very quick, it's like the are consuming too fast, i watched an army that was starving clear out a town and 2 days later they were starving again. Just a guess but can you check the code to see if maybe consumption in armies or lord groups is off.
And it seem that the town that was cleared out doesn't have a chance to fill much food before another party or army clears them out again, it's like food consumption is higher than food produced overall in the world. and I 100% agree in my new play though it felt mostly ok at the start, so I am feeling it is a late game issue as the game progresses.

 

[cyberonn]

I think your solution to make them a little dumber and willing to make mistakes is a great first step to letting the player actually get to defend winnable fights. But I think the real solution comes from fixing the siege scenes to give the defenders a bigger advantage (not your area of course). Worst case if that isn't going to happen/possible you may need to start rethinking garrison size/defenders auto-calc bonus. I think players want more experiences like this

Yes AI is too smart when it is about calculating the outcome of a siege. They should be way dumber because in my 178 hours of playtime I have never been in a siege defence that I won. AI is only attacking if it is a guaranteed win which never lets us to defend a castle. I think the attacker shouldn't know about the types of troops in a castle and exact numbers of troops in it as they cannot see inside of a castle. And this can create the mistake part of a siege attempt. And attacker parties should be more honorable like "Either I take this castle of it takes me." and shouldn't give up the siege so easily.