Economy HotIfx did the opposite

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Flesson19

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I posted this is 1.4.3 also since it was a hotfix issue but wanted to get maximum exposure since it is a huge issue for trading, caravans and workshops.

Item prices differentiate more among settlements so merchant players & caravans can make better profits.

That is the beta hotfix from 07/30 when it fact it did the exact opposite. Prices are now closer together so there is less profit margin for anyone. If a solution can't be found soon they should atleast remove the hotifx for now. While this is good for people who but food for armies it is a disaster for any trader build and caravans and workshops. Please check into this ASAP, it is a huge issue that needs to be resolved as trader are virtually worthless now.

Current beta brach 1.4.3
 
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Flesson19

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Since no reply so far here is proof of a problem with prices being so close not making profit.
I have an army of 400 wages, I have workshops making 200 a day, and I have 6, yes caravans and my profit per day ranges from 900-1500 a day, very rarely do I get the 1600-2100 a day. 800 from workshops minus my wages of 400 is 400. so 400 from my 900-1500 a day means my 6 caravans are making 300-1100 a day. That is 50-183 per caravan.
Plain and simple is that intended or not. I discussed widening prices in 1.4.2 because of low caravan profits and then in 1.4.3 hotfix they said they did that however if you load up a game from 1.4.2 and then 1.4.3 you will so how prices are closer together now now further apart. That is why caravans and workshops aren't making much. The Hotfix needs to be removed and a correct hotfix to widen prices needs to be implemented please.
Id need be I will provide screen shots and do the work for you. Just let me know that you have notified the team so this can get corrected please.
@mexxico please help, hopefully shouting your name helps
Thank you
 

stevehoos

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TW needs to revert back to the 1.4.2 economy settings before they did the code refactor. Oh well, maybe they will see this.
 

mexxico

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I read several times but I really do not understand completely. Did you say your caravans do not make enough?

Lots of players approved their caravans are making profit & merchant players make better profits while trading after hotfix. I also tested one caravan for 3 years and see that caravan is making 250 daily in average (60K in 3 years). Every game is different. There can be lots of reasons if your caravans cannot make enough profit. Do not form more than one caravan in same town (or close towns) for example. This reduces your profit from caravans or if caravan’s faction is war with lots of factions it cannot make profit because it cannot enter towns.

If you upload your save game I can examine later. But prices differentiate now. It was broken before hotfix.
 
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Dabos37

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Hey Mexxico, here you can check a save game where my caravan is making 0 money or less than 100. Sometimes I have been able to get decent money from caravans but most of the time I am getting 0 or less than 100.


Later in this campaign, I got a second caravan but It was defeated in less than a year. So, I am not getting much from caravans in my current campaign and I am losing money with them.
 

Flesson19

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I read several times but I really do not understand completely. Did you say your caravans do not make enough?

Lots of players approved their caravans are making profit & merchant players make better profits while trading after hotfix. I also tested one caravan for 3 years and see that caravan is making 250 daily in average (60K in 3 years). Every game is different. There can be lots of reasons if your caravans cannot make enough profit. Do not form more than one caravan in same town (or close towns) for example. This reduces your profit from caravans or if caravan’s faction is war with lots of factions it cannot make profit because it cannot enter towns.

If you upload your save game I can examine later. But prices differentiate now. It was broken before hotfix.
OK, questions, does the trade skill that increases with caravans running for your companions, do that barter penalty reduction actually work?
I have not tested in 1.4.3, however in 1.4.2 the difference with a companion trade skill of 150 didn't make that much more than one with 20 skill, I have suggested that as an easy fix, you need to invest points into trade for companions to get more profit as the cost of them losing the focus points for battle skills.

However, I see your post about forming close together, that is a possibility to some of my reduction in profit and will re test it now and leave you feedback, but can you suggest to the team that the trade skill which reduces barter penalty actually work good as it will help traders more if you want to invest into it,
Thank you @mexxico , I really appreciate the time. Happy holidays
 

Flesson19

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I am currently running a test using multiple different settings to see and show what settings are best to use. I hope to have it posted on Youtube tonight, tomorrow at the latest and will leave link here for people to see and maybe a Dev to see exactly what the results show. I am taking into account, starting location, normal or upgraded caravan, and high companion trade skill. I am 8 hours into the work and figure it will take another 4-6 hours to get done, edited and posted so hopefully this will help people know the best setting and maybe TW to see what are potential problems or fixes, I know the economy of each game will vary and RNG play a role but I think it will be a a good baseline to get an idea of what it going on.
Will post soon
 
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Flesson19

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@mexxico OK my test is done, I want to thank you for the advice of spreading out caravans, proved very helpful and I can officially say caravans are good for income as they are, however I do have 1 MAJOR issue, as the game progresses the looter and bandit groups increase very high so getting 40-70 in groups making it almost impossible to keep caravans running even with upgraded troops. I have a suggestion to fix it.
**Like your party increases with you clan tier, have caravans increase per clan tier as well, lets say 5 per clan tier, so at clan tier 4 a caravan will have 50 troops, that will help fight off late game parties that are too hard.***

If you want to see the data I obtained, I put a video on Youtube to show it, and hot to maximize profits but I think for the devs it is not really needed as the only issue right now is caravan party size in later games. But for players I think this Information is very valuable.

Caravan video:

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As for the Original post, I still feel 100% that the hotfix dd the exact opposite, to prove it, load up a 1.4.2 game and check prices of a few towns, then load up 1.4.3 and check those same towns from day 1 you will see that the prices are closer together and not further apart as hotfix stated.
 

Pi Dan

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Hey @mexxico , I’ m a game anchor who has played the Bannerlord for over 600 hours. And during my live show on 31th July, I tried to trade on my own to make profits instead of using caravans. And we found something interesting. Well, the products in its source area did have a lower price, however, at the same time ,I could hardly find a settlement to sell them at a sizable price, either, making it much more slow than I expected to earn money.I ‘m also an old player of the Warband and have discussed a lot with my audience about the main problems in every version of the Bannerlord. And in my opinion , I think many things are oversupplied in current version, just make an example, all the villages can produce 20000 units of fish a year ,but the people of the whole Calradia can only consume 5000 units. And we all know what will happen next, a deflation. So is any other products. By the way, when the caravans bought these oversupplied products and sell them to other settlements, the situation just become worse and worse which I mean there is no longer demand for anything in any town, killing the possibility for palyers to get a quite good profits through a dangerous business.I remembered that in the earlier versions in April, there were huge consumptions in many towns and even though they’ve got a lot , they still need more. So when players did business on their own, they could make a lot of money. But in recent versions, especially in Beta 1.4.3, the towns suddenly have no demands, which is weird. So would there be a bug in the speed of consumptions?
 

mexxico

Developer
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Thanks for all feedbacks. Currently I am trying to balance notable powers. After this I will check consumptions and item prices again.
 
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Trading, huh? If you're looking for easy wages - You can break the game (and at the same time negate any sense of achievement) by crafting 100k javelins/2h swords in 10 minutes after starting a new campaign.
 

Flesson19

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Thanks for all feedbacks. Currently I am trying to balance notable powers. After this I will check consumptions and item prices again.
Thank you much, can you please consider or bring to everyones attention about caravan size and increasing per clan tier to help late game huge size looter and bandit parties that are so big
 

mexxico

Developer
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all the villages can produce 20000 units of fish a year ,but the people of the whole Calradia can only consume 5000 units. And we all know what will happen next, a deflation.
How did you calculated these 2 numbers? 5000 - 20000. I am asking because I do not see hundreds of fish in town inventories. Numbers are normal but prices are around 12-25 generally. Yes differentiaton is low but this can be special for fish example. Fish is produced in all Calradia homogenously. Its hard to find a town to sell fish from 30. Because all has at least 10-20 fish.

I think one reason of caravans & trading player cannot make enough profit is high default trade penalty (10%), I will reduce it to 8%.
 
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Phactos

Sergeant
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I'm not sure if this is related to the trade penalty but what really bother me is how fast the price drop. If I'm not mistaken I just need to sell 6 clay to make the price drop 30 to 25. On 1.4.1 (or 2) I think i could sell at least 50 clays to have the same price drop of 30 to 25. I just made a test with salt, the city had a selling price of 54 for salt and have a stock of 8, after selling 8 units the price is already at 48. The adjustment of price should take way more units to stabilize. In this patch I can't make more than 2k profit per city.
 

Flesson19

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How did you calculated these 2 numbers? 5000 - 20000. I am asking because I do not see hundreds of fish in town inventories. Numbers are normal but prices are around 12-25 generally. Yes differentiaton is low but this can be special for fish example. Fish is produced in all Calradia homogenously. Its hard to find a town to sell fish from 30. Because all has at least 10-20 fish.

I think one reason of caravans & trading player cannot make enough profit is high default trade penalty (10%), I will reduce it to 8%.
Does that drop from 10% to 8% also effect companion run caravans?
Also did you see my message on caravans late game constantly getting captured because looters and bandit groups get so big, Do you think my idea of increasing caravan size by 5 for each clan tier is ok ? I think that is reasonable as bandit groups get bigger you get a small bonus to caravan size to compensate. If you need an easier explaination please ask. My test I did further up posted to youtube around day 1000, in 8 50 day tests only twice did all 7 caravans of mine survive. That is a huge capture rate.
As I keep saying, we appreciate all you guys do, I know it's not easy and we get very *****y at times but when you guys deliver this much personal time to us it makes it all worth, please thank the team for me for fixing all my trade issues, I really really love being a trader and I would say atleast 600 of my 1,100 hours play are a trader. But again please consider increasing caravan size with clan tier to help late game
Thank you to the TW Team
 

mexxico

Developer
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I'm not sure if this is related to the trade penalty but what really bother me is how fast the price drop. If I'm not mistaken I just need to sell 6 clay to make the price drop 30 to 25. On 1.4.1 (or 2) I think i could sell at least 50 clays to have the same price drop of 30 to 25. I just made a test with salt, the city had a selling price of 54 for salt and have a stock of 8, after selling 8 units the price is already at 48. The adjustment of price should take way more units to stabilize. In this patch I can't make more than 2k profit per city.
Interesting info. I will check this.
 

Flesson19

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Yes. If trade penalty default drops to 8% from 10% also all caravan profits will be effected a bit positively.
Thank you,
Also what do you think of my idea to raise caravan size by 5 per clan tier level to balance the huge looter and bandit parties that happen late game
 

mexxico

Developer
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Thank you,
Also what do you think of my idea to raise caravan size by 5 per clan tier level to balance the huge looter and bandit parties that happen late game
can you upload a savegame which your caravans are destroyed quickly (less than a year average)