Economy Changes with 1.8 and onwards

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cuce

cuce
Developer
Salutations merchants of Calradia


We have been working on some changes regarding the economy of Calradia for some time. With the new patch we can finally share those changes with you.

So we wanted to take this opportunity to share the changes as well as the reasons, rationale and limitations behind them.


To properly explain where the changes came from we need to start with the existing problems.

First of all `economy` in this sense is about trade goods, caravans and workshops so mostly trade. Equipment wages and loot values are a separate topic. Surely it is still related but they are sequestered enough to be handled separately to a decent degree.

So what are the primary issues we thought we should prioritize?

  • Over stocking of trade goods in towns. This is the mother of all problems. Its causes are many but its effects are more.
    • With abundance of trade goods in town markets, price index drops to very low.
    • Its not only about a single trade good being in stock in huge quantities, but also every trade good being available in pretty much every town in about 5 years.
  • Low profit margins. Low price index means profit margins are low as well.
  • Caravans and workshops have limited potential profits.
  • Workshop variety has limited effect.
  • Variety between town markets is not high, making the game world less interesting.
  • Market homogeneity limiting trade opportunities, limiting how much profit player can make as the games goes on.
  • With limited profits Trade skill xp gain is also curbed severely, making it harder than intended to increase trade skill.
  • Trade gameplay in general is less rewarding even for making money compared to more mainstream methods.



So what are the changes?
In summary:

  • Demand for trade goods increased…
    • Simply put, demand is based on the prosperity of the town multiplied by demand value for a certain good.
    • In some cases they are up 3-4 times more, so towns simply consume more trade goods.
  • Luxury demands are reintroduced
    • We have a luxury demand system in the game, but values were adjusted through the early access to make it moot. We brought the values back.
    • Difference with luxury and base demand values is, luxury demand only kicks in after town reaches a certain prosperity value.
  • Production of villages are adjusted
  • Workshop production volume and efficiency are adjusted
  • Value for various trade goods are adjusted
  • Expenses for workshop are drastically increased
  • Some trade goods are not produced by artisans anymore and will only be produced in their respective workshops.
  • The amount of production simulated at the game start is reduced to 5 days from 20
  • Workshop production only cycles in case of possible profit instead of always.



So what these changes mean when they are all put together?


  • With supply and demand more in line with each other, over stocking in markets is much more rare.
  • This means the price indices are as low as possible 5 years into the game.
    • This is the primary change and we built the rest of the changes on top of this.
    • With traveling around the world, buying and selling is still viable even into very late game. Trader gameplay is more viable.
    • Trade skill exp is gained from making profits from trading. So you will be able to gain trade skill even later into the game.
    • When traveling around the map and visiting towns, you will now see different markets with different inventories and prices, actually making it more fun to trade.
    • With the amount of trade goods in the market being much more limited, we also made it so that various events like raids and sieges have a much bigger impact on the prices and availability in a market.
      • You can visit a town right after a long siege and see it in want of anything you might provide.
      • Or raiding all the villages of same produce you can affect the prices to a much more recognizable degree
    • This change also emphasizes the trading style of traveling the land visiting many towns on the way and making various trades along the way and trying to recognize and catch opportunities, instead of doing big trade runs from 1 destination to another.
  • Luxury demands
    • With the reintroduction of luxury demands you can also rely on your knowledge of the prosperity of towns to figure out where you should sell those goods.
      • You can sell grain or hardwood pretty much anywhere, but if you landed some cheap jewelry or silk you should go to a big and rich town to find some market for it.
    • Another advantage is, overall prosperity values increase in the game as time passes. So certain trade goods and workshops that have limited trade and profit potential can start to be more valuable later into the game.
  • Caravans and Workshops
    • Caravans
      • We made some changes to caravan trade behavior. Caravans were in general acting too safe when deciding on what to buy. With price indexes more varied instead of rock bottom, we had the chance to get them to take more risk.
      • Caravans now make better use of animals of burden, increasing their carry capacity thus their profits
      • Lastly, simply trading being more profitable means caravans are more profitable.
    • Workshops
      • Again, more profits mean making more money for workshops.
      • With heterogeneity of trade goods, it is more important to make correct decisions on where and what kind of workshop to buy.
      • With trade goods being abundant, the amount of raw materials consumed by workshops were not making a dent in the supply and did not affect the prices. Now even if we didn't increase their consumption, a town with a smithy will have higher prices for iron ore.
      • Workshops have always had daily expenses, and we were relying on this expense mechanic for AI controlled workshops to go out of business, and opening different kinds of workshops in their stead. Both balancing out the economy and also making it more lively.
        • With their profit being limited, the expenses were lowered quite a bit as well. Which meant that it would take a workshop to not make a single denar of profit for around 14 years straight to go out of business.
        • Now that workshops have much better profits, meaning we have more room to bite into and increase the daily expenses.
        • This allowed us to get AI controlled workshops to cycle as we intended.
      • This will also make players have to think a bit more, since workshops can actually run a deficit now.
        • Pretty sure you will figure out the ideal workshop in no time, but still it's an improvement.
      • With demand increasing, and since it ‘s multiplied with prosperity, we thought it would be better to increase the price of workshops according to town prosperity even more. In fact it is the bigger part of the price now, and it pays off.
      • Another advantage is that some workshops, specifically ones producing luxury goods are much more profitable at late game.



What we want to do next?

Well of course we are going to tweak pretty much everything through your feedback. Beyond that there are still some points we want to adress. One of them is supply and demand is not increasing in comparable degree as time passes in the game. Village productions increase to a degree according to their hearth value but with workshop productions being static it is manufactured goods are shooting up in prices. We had previous plans with workshops, and in time we are looking for ways to improve overall experience and give players some degree of managing them.
Another point that we still want to handle is dynamism. Both from month to month in a single game and between new game starts. There have been improvements in both with these changes but we want to push it further.


Both me and other developers in the team will be in the thread for any questions or suggestions and feedback in general. I hope you enjoy the changes.

Have fun.



Detailed change log is below


Demand Value Changes (base demand,luxury demand)

Grain 100,0 -> 140,0

Fish 32,0 -> 15,15

Meat 36,12 -> 19,50

Cheese 21,7->10,20

Butter 12,4 -> 10,25

Grape 9,3 -> 5,20

Olives 12,4 -> 5,20

DateFruit 12,4 -> 7,32

Oil 15,5 -> 17,30

Flax 10,0 -> 10,20

Linen 30,10 -> 20,25

Wool 12,0 -> 12,0

Cloth 12,6 -> 12,6

Cotton 8,2 -> 10,3

Velvet 14,7 -> 15,32

Wood 4,0 -> 10,10

Iron 3,0 -> 10,20

Salt 15,5 -> 25,25

Silver 8,4 ->10,20

Hides 33,11 -> 30,15

Clay 16,0 ->8,5

Beer 39, 13 -> 23,20

Wine 9,3 -> 15,30

Tools 30,10 -> 30,30

Pottery 15,5 -> 22,20

Leather 20,10->25,10

Fur 20,10 -> 10,38

Jewelry 24,12 -> 15,32



Base Value Changes

Jewelry 300 ->600

Cotton 70 ->80

Clay 20 ->18

Pottery 100 ->200

Linen 90 ->200

Leather 200 ->250

Velvet 250 ->500

Beer 50 ->100

Wine 100 ->75

Oil 120 ->210

Fur 120 ->400 (fur weight 15 ->10)

Tools 100 -> 200

Hides 60 ->50


Workshop Expenses

-The daily expense value should be the same for the player and AI.

-Workshop daily expense have been increased from 20 to 100 denars.

Workshop Conversion Speed And Output Values (conversion speed is how many production runs a workshop makes in a day, output count is the amount of good a workshop produces in a production run)

-Brewery
Conversion speed 8->3.5
Output count 1->2

-Velvet weavery
Conversion speed 2->0.75
Output count 1->2

-Linen weavery
Conversion speed 4->2
Output count 1->2

-Wine press
Conversion speed 5->2.5
Output count 1->2

-Pottery shop
Conversion speed 4->2
Output count 1->2

-Olive press
Conversion speed 5->2.5
Output count 1->2

-Wool weavery
Conversion speed 2->1
Output count 1->2

-Tannery
Conversion speed 2->1
Output count 1->2

-Wood Workshop
Conversion speed 5->2.5
Output count 1->2

-Smithy
Conversion speed 3->1.5
Output count 2->4

-Silversmith
Conversion speed 1->0.75
Output count 2->2


Overall workshop produce roughly the same amount of goods but consume less raw materials.


Frequency Changes:


-Tannery and brewery frequencies =1

-Increased other workshop frequencies to 2

-Frequency affects the workshop types chosen at the start of the game, this is a simple balancing change.


Artisan Production

Artisans won't produce the trade goods below

-Linen
-Beer
-Leather
-Jewelry

Before game start production


-Number of village production cycles before game start was decreased from 20 to 5

-Number of workshop production cycles before game start was decreased from 20 to 5


Village Daily Production Changes

Grain 45 -> 50

Lumberjack 20 -> 18

Claymine 20 -> 10

Saltmine 12 -> 15

Ironmine 12 -> 10

Fisherman 32 -> 28

Vineyard 20 -> 11

Flaxplant 24 ->18

DateFarm 10 -> 8

OliveTrees 16 -> 12

SilkPlant 6 -> 8

SilverMine 4 -> 3

Trapper 5 -> 1.4


Price Control Changes: We added price control to workshop behavior. With this change, a workshop will not make a production run if it's not going to be profitable or break even with local market prices.

These changes won't be applied to the artisans or equipment production of workshops and they will continue their productions regardless or profits.
 

Reiksmarshal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Great stuff!

That said I have been hooked to trading since Warband, one of the main things I see missing is more pronounce regional trade goods. For example Furs/leather from the north, spices from the south, silks from the east, and oil from the imperial lands. This created viable trade routes and I feel like this has never made its way into Bannerlord properly. I should be able to buy spices (we need this trade good) in the south or silks in the east and be able to get sick profits in the north or west (Vlandian lands).

Caravans - Having caravans should also provide passive trade experience, it was in the description they did this plus it would be worth the risk.

Guilds - Maybe down the road there can be trade guilds and trade guild membership. Maybe this could be a requirement to start a caravan or to own a workshop. It is too easy to start up an enterprise/trading company. Maybe a minimum trade level and fee is required to join the guild before the player can buy a workshop or start a caravan.

Anyways those are my thoughts and keep up the great work!
 
Last edited:

e222143

Squire
Thank you for all your hardwork.
Guilds - Maybe down the road there can be trade guilds and trade guild membership. Maybe this could be a requirement to start a caravan or to own a workshop. It is too easy to get the start up a enterprise/trading company. @Reiksmarshal
I liked your idea.
 

Reiksmarshal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
I like trading horses, but Aserai lands needs some unique trade goods like spices, ivory, gems/jewels, camels, and gold. The lands of the south should be a traders paradise with grand bazaars with how important trade is to the culture. The resources of the area needs a serious overhaul and are pretty under whelming.

Camels - Also can we get these back, they should be the best pack animals in the game and available to buy. Running an Aserai caravan character with mules is not as immersive as having pack camels.
 

PAnZuRiEL

Recruit
Caravans - Having caravans should also provide passive trade experience, it was in the description they did this plus it would be worth the risk.
Caravans do this already -- they give XP to the companion running the caravan, not to the player who owns the caravan. Pretty sure this is working as intended.
 

nereid

Sergeant
I like trading horses, but Aserai lands needs some unique trade goods like spices, ivory, gems/jewels, camels, and gold. The lands of the south should be a traders paradise with grand bazaars with how important trade is to the culture. The resources of the area needs a serious overhaul and are pretty under whelming.

Camels - Also can we get these back, they should be the best pack animals in the game and available to buy. Running an Aserai caravan character with mules is not as immersive as having pack camels.
You've got dates and mainly beer in the desert :xf-wink: and you can now buy camels in the south.
 

Userre

Recruit
Seems huge, the later it got in the game on previous patches, I'd just buy hundreds of even thousands of mules and sumpter horses, bearing the full speed penalty and hitting all the towns in a big loop because it was the fastest way to earn exp. Hopefully now it'll be a bit more pleasant reaching Spring of Gold :smile: One comment I'd like to add is that it might be helpful to diversify food sources. Currently there are no spice producing villages (is this handled by artisans or something?), and there are only a handful of basic food sources. For example you could include rice in the east and potatoes in the west (yes it's from South America which isn't fully in line with a classical/medieval asthetic but it would still track). Milk from cows might incentivize keeping them in your party, and different meats in general might make sense. And uhh, need I say butter ought to be the most delectable of vlandian ingredients?
 

Reiksmarshal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
You've got dates and mainly beer in the desert :xf-wink: and you can now buy camels in the south.
Dates are cool, but beer is not or should not be unique to Aserai lands. Trade goods in the area need to be spiced up no pun intended :xf-grin:

Trade goods are pretty generic and about the same in every market and it would make it more interesting if there could be more exotic goods available in the south to get that traveling trader experience. It would give the player a reason to go to certain markets.


Caravans do this already -- they give XP to the companion running the caravan, not to the player who owns the caravan. Pretty sure this is working as intended.
Key word is passive, player should get a small passive bonus for owning caravans as that knowledge would be passed on word of month.
 

cuce

cuce
Developer
The fundemental effect of these changes is making trade goods more regional.

Also there are some tweaks that curbs the profitability of mount trading, with this patch as well.
 

MaestroG4

Recruit
WBNWVC
Salutations merchants of Calradia


We have been working on some changes regarding the economy of Calradia for some time. With the new patch we can finally share those changes with you.

So we wanted to take this opportunity to share the changes as well as the reasons, rationale and limitations behind them.


To properly explain where the changes came from we need to start with the existing problems.

First of all `economy` in this sense is about trade goods, caravans and workshops so mostly trade. Equipment wages and loot values are a separate topic. Surely it is still related but they are sequestered enough to be handled separately to a decent degree.

So what are the primary issues we thought we should prioritize?

  • Over stocking of trade goods in towns. This is the mother of all problems. Its causes are many but its effects are more.
    • With abundance of trade goods in town markets, price index drops to very low.
    • Its not only about a single trade good being in stock in huge quantities, but also every trade good being available in pretty much every town in about 5 years.
  • Low profit margins. Low price index means profit margins are low as well.
  • Caravans and workshops have limited potential profits.
  • Workshop variety has limited effect.
  • Variety between town markets is not high, making the game world less interesting.
  • Market homogeneity limiting trade opportunities, limiting how much profit player can make as the games goes on.
  • With limited profits Trade skill xp gain is also curbed severely, making it harder than intended to increase trade skill.
  • Trade gameplay in general is less rewarding even for making money compared to more mainstream methods.



So what are the changes?
In summary:

  • Demand for trade goods increased…
    • Simply put, demand is based on the prosperity of the town multiplied by demand value for a certain good.
    • In some cases they are up 3-4 times more, so towns simply consume more trade goods.
  • Luxury demands are reintroduced
    • We have a luxury demand system in the game, but values were adjusted through the early access to make it moot. We brought the values back.
    • Difference with luxury and base demand values is, luxury demand only kicks in after town reaches a certain prosperity value.
  • Production of villages are adjusted
  • Workshop production volume and efficiency are adjusted
  • Value for various trade goods are adjusted
  • Expenses for workshop are drastically increased
  • Some trade goods are not produced by artisans anymore and will only be produced in their respective workshops.
  • The amount of production simulated at the game start is reduced to 5 days from 20
  • Workshop production only cycles in case of possible profit instead of always.



So what these changes mean when they are all put together?

  • With supply and demand more in line with each other, over stocking in markets is much more rare.
  • This means the price indices are as low as possible 5 years into the game.
    • This is the primary change and we built the rest of the changes on top of this.
    • With traveling around the world, buying and selling is still viable even into very late game. Trader gameplay is more viable.
    • Trade skill exp is gained from making profits from trading. So you will be able to gain trade skill even later into the game.
    • When traveling around the map and visiting towns, you will now see different markets with different inventories and prices, actually making it more fun to trade.
    • With the amount of trade goods in the market being much more limited, we also made it so that various events like raids and sieges have a much bigger impact on the prices and availability in a market.
      • You can visit a town right after a long siege and see it in want of anything you might provide.
      • Or raiding all the villages of same produce you can affect the prices to a much more recognizable degree
    • This change also emphasizes the trading style of traveling the land visiting many towns on the way and making various trades along the way and trying to recognize and catch opportunities, instead of doing big trade runs from 1 destination to another.
  • Luxury demands
    • With the reintroduction of luxury demands you can also rely on your knowledge of the prosperity of towns to figure out where you should sell those goods.
      • You can sell grain or hardwood pretty much anywhere, but if you landed some cheap jewelry or silk you should go to a big and rich town to find some market for it.
    • Another advantage is, overall prosperity values increase in the game as time passes. So certain trade goods and workshops that have limited trade and profit potential can start to be more valuable later into the game.
  • Caravans and Workshops
    • Caravans
      • We made some changes to caravan trade behavior. Caravans were in general acting too safe when deciding on what to buy. With price indexes more varied instead of rock bottom, we had the chance to get them to take more risk.
      • Caravans now make better use of animals of burden, increasing their carry capacity thus their profits
      • Lastly, simply trading being more profitable means caravans are more profitable.
    • Workshops
      • Again, more profits mean making more money for workshops.
      • With heterogeneity of trade goods, it is more important to make correct decisions on where and what kind of workshop to buy.
      • With trade goods being abundant, the amount of raw materials consumed by workshops were not making a dent in the supply and did not affect the prices. Now even if we didn't increase their consumption, a town with a smithy will have higher prices for iron ore.
      • Workshops have always had daily expenses, and we were relying on this expense mechanic for AI controlled workshops to go out of business, and opening different kinds of workshops in their stead. Both balancing out the economy and also making it more lively.
        • With their profit being limited, the expenses were lowered quite a bit as well. Which meant that it would take a workshop to not make a single denar of profit for around 14 years straight to go out of business.
        • Now that workshops have much better profits, meaning we have more room to bite into and increase the daily expenses.
        • This allowed us to get AI controlled workshops to cycle as we intended.
      • This will also make players have to think a bit more, since workshops can actually run a deficit now.
        • Pretty sure you will figure out the ideal workshop in no time, but still it's an improvement.
      • With demand increasing, and since it ‘s multiplied with prosperity, we thought it would be better to increase the price of workshops according to town prosperity even more. In fact it is the bigger part of the price now, and it pays off.
      • Another advantage is that some workshops, specifically ones producing luxury goods are much more profitable at late game.



What we want to do next?

Well of course we are going to tweak pretty much everything through your feedback. Beyond that there are still some points we want to adress. One of them is supply and demand is not increasing in comparable degree as time passes in the game. Village productions increase to a degree according to their hearth value but with workshop productions being static it is manufactured goods are shooting up in prices. We had previous plans with workshops, and in time we are looking for ways to improve overall experience and give players some degree of managing them.
Another point that we still want to handle is dynamism. Both from month to month in a single game and between new game starts. There have been improvements in both with these changes but we want to push it further.


Both me and other developers in the team will be in the thread for any questions or suggestions and feedback in general. I hope you enjoy the changes.

Have fun.



Detailed change log is below


Demand Value Changes (base demand,luxury demand)

Grain 100,0 -> 140,0

Fish 32,0 -> 15,15

Meat 36,12 -> 19,50

Cheese 21,7->10,20

Butter 12,4 -> 10,25

Grape 9,3 -> 5,20

Olives 12,4 -> 5,20

DateFruit 12,4 -> 7,32

Oil 15,5 -> 17,30

Flax 10,0 -> 10,20

Linen 30,10 -> 20,25

Wool 12,0 -> 12,0

Cloth 12,6 -> 12,6

Cotton 8,2 -> 10,3

Velvet 14,7 -> 15,32

Wood 4,0 -> 10,10

Iron 3,0 -> 10,20

Salt 15,5 -> 25,25

Silver 8,4 ->10,20

Hides 33,11 -> 30,15

Clay 16,0 ->8,5

Beer 39, 13 -> 23,20

Wine 9,3 -> 15,30

Tools 30,10 -> 30,30

Pottery 15,5 -> 22,20

Leather 20,10->25,10

Fur 20,10 -> 10,38

Jewelry 24,12 -> 15,32



Base Value Changes

Jewelry 300 ->600

Cotton 70 ->80

Clay 20 ->18

Pottery 100 ->200

Linen 90 ->200

Leather 200 ->250

Velvet 250 ->500

Beer 50 ->100

Wine 100 ->75

Oil 120 ->210

Fur 120 ->400 (fur weight 15 ->10)

Tools 100 -> 200

Hides 60 ->50


Workshop Expenses

-The daily expense value should be the same for the player and AI.

-Workshop daily expense have been increased from 20 to 100 denars.

Workshop Conversion Speed And Output Values (conversion speed is how many production runs a workshop makes in a day, output count is the amount of good a workshop produces in a production run)

-Brewery
Conversion speed 8->3.5
Output count 1->2

-Velvet weavery
Conversion speed 2->0.75
Output count 1->2

-Linen weavery
Conversion speed 4->2
Output count 1->2

-Wine press
Conversion speed 5->2.5
Output count 1->2

-Pottery shop
Conversion speed 4->2
Output count 1->2

-Olive press
Conversion speed 5->2.5
Output count 1->2

-Wool weavery
Conversion speed 2->1
Output count 1->2

-Tannery
Conversion speed 2->1
Output count 1->2

-Wood Workshop
Conversion speed 5->2.5
Output count 1->2

-Smithy
Conversion speed 3->1.5
Output count 2->4

-Silversmith
Conversion speed 1->0.75
Output count 2->2


Overall workshop produce roughly the same amount of goods but consume less raw materials.


Frequency Changes:

-Tannery and brewery frequencies =1

-Increased other workshop frequencies to 2

-Frequency affects the workshop types chosen at the start of the game, this is a simple balancing change.


Artisan Production

Artisans won't produce the trade goods below

-Linen
-Beer
-Leather
-Jewelry

Before game start production

-Number of village production cycles before game start was decreased from 20 to 5

-Number of workshop production cycles before game start was decreased from 20 to 5


Village Daily Production Changes

Grain 45 -> 50

Lumberjack 20 -> 18

Claymine 20 -> 10

Saltmine 12 -> 15

Ironmine 12 -> 10

Fisherman 32 -> 28

Vineyard 20 -> 11

Flaxplant 24 ->18

DateFarm 10 -> 8

OliveTrees 16 -> 12

SilkPlant 6 -> 8

SilverMine 4 -> 3

Trapper 5 -> 1.4


Price Control Changes: We added price control to workshop behavior. With this change, a workshop will not make a production run if it's not going to be profitable or break even with local market prices.

These changes won't be applied to the artisans or equipment production of workshops and they will continue their productions regardless or profits.
ok so i opened the game played for a bit, update is great however my workshops literally make 0 money, they say "last run 15 days ago" and i am not making any money. whats up with that?
 

GeneralMike

Recruit
Something I've noticed when it comes to trade skill leveling - It seems the buy price is not being set when you acquire items into your inventory in certain ways. From what I've noticed, rewards for a quest, from smelting/refining, from looting enemies, or from buying goods from villagers while they are taking goods to their bound town (via the "I'm heading to the market too. What goods do you have." dialog) don't get registered. Items obtained in these ways won't show in green or red on the trade screen in a town to indicate you are making a profit/loss, even after the perk has been unlocked, and from what I can tell it doesn't seem like the player is earning trade XP from profits on those items. Since those can be some of the ways to get the best profit margins, it could be causing players to miss out on a lot of XP from certain playstyles.
 

madnessario

Knight
I think this is by design and I prefer it. There are many things that can go wrong with the other methods, e.g., you can craft (overpriced) spears and sell them.
 

LavaLampMaster

Knight at Arms
WB
I like trading horses, but Aserai lands needs some unique trade goods like spices, ivory, gems/jewels, camels, and gold. The lands of the south should be a traders paradise with grand bazaars with how important trade is to the culture. The resources of the area needs a serious overhaul and are pretty under whelming.

Camels - Also can we get these back, they should be the best pack animals in the game and available to buy. Running an Aserai caravan character with mules is not as immersive as having pack camels.


I think that you've touched on a key factor in Early Medieval trade that is missing from bannerlord: the Silk Road! The Arabs/Aserai and Mongols/Khuzaits didn't produce silk, spice, or porcelain themselves, but imported it from China. At the time Europe/Calradia had no direct contact with the East.

Bazaars could be a 4th type of permanent settlement or a new kind of temporary settlement (acts like a friendly hideout?) that "produce" spices, silk, paper, porcelain, and whatnot. They could even have their own types of Notables!

In short, a Silk Road mechanic could be very fun.
 

Spinozart1

Knight
Camels - Also can we get these back, they should be the best pack animals in the game and available to buy. Running an Aserai caravan character with mules is not as immersive as having pack camels.
Am I reading the following wrong or can we now buy camels?
Economy and Trade
  • Adjusted the supply and demand of various trade goods. Improved the viability and longevity of trade gameplay. Made caravans and workshops more profitable as well as more risky investments.
  • [Read more about the extensive economy and trade changes here]
  • Added the Camel Ranch village type.
  • Improved the target settlement selection algorithm of caravan parties.
  • Fixed a bug that prevented caravans from differentiating between items with different modifiers.
  • Fixed a bug that caused caravan parties to join sieges.
 

nereid

Sergeant
Am I reading the following wrong or can we now buy camels?
Yes, you can buy camels now. Pack Camels, Camels, and War Camels. Although I still do not know that the difference between Sumpter Horses, Mules, and Pack Camels is, besides the price. Would be cool if they would offer different inventory weight or camels would negate the desert movement penalty (but would in turn get and additional penalty in snow).
 

TheShermanator

Sergeant
@cuce Thanks! Exciting to see how lower supply (and higher demand) will make player efforts to move goods across Calradia more interesting.

One concern: What about the potential for more frequent city starvation? If, generally, demand (i.e. city consumption rate) is up and supply is lower, isn't there a risk of constant city shrinkage from starvation, garrison deterioration from lack of food, etc. in so far as that lower-supply-higher-demand dynamic affects food goods? I'm sure you've considered this - just curious as to your approach.
 

Reiksmarshal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Am I reading the following wrong or can we now buy camels?
Wow looks like it is back and that will be a nice addition to the Aserai lands.

Spices - Spices was one of the main staple trade goods in Warband and in Bannerlord your have a wanderer called the "Spicevendor". Their back story is about buying a warehouse of pepper and losing it to a fire. With spices being part of game lore can we get a spice resource for Aserai lands?
 

GeneralMike

Recruit
I think this is by design and I prefer it. There are many things that can go wrong with the other methods, e.g., you can craft (overpriced) spears and sell them.
Was this in reply to what I wrote? If it is, I don't really understand what you are saying. Selling crafted items is already part of the game, and yes I agree the prices on certain items need to be balanced better. I think some of the crafting changes in this patch are supposed to work on that. That wasn't really what I was talking about here though.

What I was referring to is if you smelt down a pitchfork into 3 hardwood, for example, you don't get any trade skill xp from selling that hardwood, which is actually worth more coins as 3 hardwood than as a crude pitchfork if you can find a town that has a shortage of wood. The player has to spend crafting stamina to smelt it down and then find the right town to sell the hardwood in, which is why they should be rewarded with trading skill.

I think how much the original cost for these items should be can be open to debate. The easiest one is buying things from villager parties - they tell you right in the dialog what they are charging for each item, it should be fairly simple to just track that as their 'cost' when calculating trade profits whenever the player goes to sell them later the same way the game currently tracks how much you buy an item for through a trade screen. But for things like grain, horses, or other goods looted from bandit or AI lord parties, or smelting, or quest rewards, setting the purchase price to 0 would result in huge trade profit calculations, and might not be the right balance. Maybe the current average price of the good at the time it goes into the players inventory would be better. Maybe something in between. An argument could be made either way. I just think it should at least count for something.
 

zenDzee

Veteran
Lastly, simply trading being more profitable means caravans are more profitable.
Nice!
I have a suggestion regarding caravans, please make a change to allow noble clans to create caravans if they are poor or don't have fiefs. This change will give some money to small and weak kingdoms in the late game, making them harder to conquer.
 
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