Economics post 1.141
- 主题发起人 halafradrimx
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Knight
mexxico 说:
Yes that is a good improvement. That will make the Trade skill more important, and a necessity in making money through trading.
Trade skill rightfully should be important, because you don't even need to sacrifice your points on it and can just bring Ingri. It's too easy to have a high Trade skill.
Aeon221
Sergeant at Arms
You guys need some kind of intuitive in game way to tell if a lord is hurting for money other than the size of their army.
In fact, you need to make things a little more transparent all around, information wise. You model a ton of stuff but don't tell the player, so most don't even know what's going on behind the curtain. Maybe add in a screen to centers that lets you see what production facilities they have given sufficient trade skill? Such and such number of acres, so and so many breweries. That kind of info would go a long way toward making people happier.
Also, some kind of way to improve said facilities would be nice. Invest in production chains in a generic way that improves their output and lowers the price. Better return than bank for investment, but with a small chance of losing everything (reduced by trade skill) and a guaranteed loss of everything if center is taken.
Variety of that sort is good so long as there are compelling tradeoffs.
In fact, you need to make things a little more transparent all around, information wise. You model a ton of stuff but don't tell the player, so most don't even know what's going on behind the curtain. Maybe add in a screen to centers that lets you see what production facilities they have given sufficient trade skill? Such and such number of acres, so and so many breweries. That kind of info would go a long way toward making people happier.
Also, some kind of way to improve said facilities would be nice. Invest in production chains in a generic way that improves their output and lowers the price. Better return than bank for investment, but with a small chance of losing everything (reduced by trade skill) and a guaranteed loss of everything if center is taken.
Variety of that sort is good so long as there are compelling tradeoffs.
Aeon221 说:
I know. Transparency is the key to any complex system.
I'm thinking that we'll probably have that be part of the in-game report system and maybe have some amount of what the player knows of a given lord contribute to it. There are a lot of possibilities with that.
That would be a great use for ladies, for sure.
"May I ask you a question?"
"Why yes, you may?"
"What do you know of {s54}?
...
"Oh I hear he's a terribly cruel man, but that he's so rich noone dares complain about it. He's got everyone on a gold leash quite literally."
"Rumor is that he is deeply in debt, but his friends have very deep pockets."
etc.
Then when you look at the lord report, it would summarize that information explicitly.
or something. Don't beat me up if that seems dumb, I am just throwing an idea out.
Mexxico has the economy well in hand, I'm excited to see what he comes up with next. His actual work was better than I had intended to propose so I'm quite happy with that.
I like the idea of investing in industry though. There are a lot of possibilities there - such as creating both demand (for raw mats) and finished goods. Even improving the available armors etc. by upgrading metalworks.
All that said, one of the other things that needs fixing that was also broken in M&B is that the mercenary income doesn't even cover costs. The way I've fixed it in the past is that they will offer you a variable amount of retainer based on the troop strength you bring to negotiate, which should cover your troop costs per week. On top of that you get paid for combat duty (the damage you do to the enemy), lord kidnappings, village razings and town/castle captures.
If you do a lot of damage you get combat pay, as it should be.
For those of you who enjoy that path, this makes it a lucrative way to play the early middle game.
Throw that in with a bunch of fun dialogues to cover various situations (such as a king who doesn't like you hiring you anyways because "I'd rather be holding the snake than having it thrust at me") and adopting the factions and banner of your hiring lord and it's almost a little mini game in itself.
I quite like the new, more intuitive but much harder trading system. But one thing seems rather like a bug: trade patents.
I did my first caravan run from Azaq-Kale to Pskov, and was hit with a 5 % tax and an announcement that I should get a trade patent. OK, I immediately talked with the mayor of Pskov and bought the patent. But it hasn't changed anything: upon caravan arrival I always have to pay either 10% or 5% taxes (and the displayed text on the screen also tells that I should get a patent). Since I've already bought the patent I can't buy it again. There is no info about me having a patent anywhere (in previous versions the patent was displayed on the quests page).
Cheers, L.
I did my first caravan run from Azaq-Kale to Pskov, and was hit with a 5 % tax and an announcement that I should get a trade patent. OK, I immediately talked with the mayor of Pskov and bought the patent. But it hasn't changed anything: upon caravan arrival I always have to pay either 10% or 5% taxes (and the displayed text on the screen also tells that I should get a patent). Since I've already bought the patent I can't buy it again. There is no info about me having a patent anywhere (in previous versions the patent was displayed on the quests page).
Cheers, L.
lotsofpaper
Recruit
Nox, I like everything you just said.
Keep it up!
If you manage to get that snake line into the game... I will make anger lords who are at war JUST to see it.
Keep it up!
If you manage to get that snake line into the game... I will make anger lords who are at war JUST to see it.
Royamarn 说:
Do you continue your old save game after 1.141 patch release? It should be impossible to sell honey 2K in new patch with a totally new game after patch.
Where did you sell that honey with 2K price? You can buy it about 100 thalers in some villages and sell about 300 thalers in some towns/castles. This make sense, but selling it with a price of 2K is not normal.
About patent, you will continue paying taxes until next patch, not big deal only 5%-10% of caravan income will be cut off.
Aeon221
Sergeant at Arms
nox 说:
Should work great. Bland enough to give you details, informative enough to keep you in the loop. Problem with it is you can't really use it on enemy lords, as their ladies will be hidden. Also, are ladies even _in_ WFAS? I thought they were taken out?
Awesome. I'm not sure I like making villages really cheap sale sites -- in WB, as I'm sure you know, they were high priced because villagers were supposed to be selling the cheap stuff to towns. Also, most likely, because the devs wanted you to buy your food at fewer locations and to punish you for your lack of foresight in campaigning.
Causing the player's troops to eat more frequently, or to eat 1:1 instead of 3:1, and then putting high volume food in towns (hard tack etc) with low volume stuff in villages would probably fix the ability to get food too easily on campaigns while still giving players an early option for trade. When I used that setting in WB it made large armies gobble through food (two units per eat period for 100 men).
Good that you're thinking about demand side, big omission on my part and an extremely good idea. Letting the player raise demand in a town would help enormously for developing their own trade network (say, investing in iron production in one town, metalwork in another, caravaning iron to the metal town and selling the tools). If you're going to allow that you might want to find a way to let the player set up looping caravans.
If you're doing this, and I definitely encourage it, you should move the starting point for the quests further back. Lots of players have trouble with stuff like conquering towns, moving the steed or overthrowing Crimea. Waiting til the player has established him or herself as a mercenary and developed their income/level/gear would help enormously with reducing the irritation of quests that are, frankly, beyond the capabilities of the player at their current level. Maybe keep the basic quests in Z village, and then put a generic "you should look into joining a faction and developing your skills quest" onto the player's log. They go out for a while and do stuff, and then Clermont comes and finds them and offers guidance. "Poland suffers this, Cossacks that, and the Great Bear these. Join one and see how deep the rabbit hole goes etc etc". Would also have the neat side effect of preventing questions about whether factions like Sweden or Crimea have story lines (CRIMEA SHOULD HAVE A STORY LINE HINT HINT HINT BECAUSE THEY ARE AWESOME).
Would also be nice if mercenary employment duration was set to one month, with renewal offered at the end. One month is a short period of time, and gives the player a chance to try out a few factions before picking the one they like. There should also probably be a non-storyline method for gaining a crown, but I'm sure you guys are already planning that what with the talk of migrating over warband features.
wannyboy
Sergeant
Aeon221 说:
Lords are still married but they dont have daughters anymore who you can marry
i like cheap selling in villages, since they won't have to go all the way to town to sell their stuff i think its logically they give little discountAeon221 说:
Aeon221 说:
that would be realy awesome, letting your enterprise produce something and as soon as it's ready sending it to a nice place to sell it. (kinda offtopic) But what is best? placing enterprise in city that already produces the stuff or in city that doesn't produce it yet?
first of all, doesn't crimea already have a storyline? Thought sweden was only one without?Aeon221 说:
I realy love the idea increasing merc payment but i think the first point we should be concerned about is making it easier to become merc. I heard tons of people complain about how hard it is and that shouldn't be the fact. I'm getting sick of the fact that have to run past all lords asking if they have quest hoping they will recruit me while none do. You should be able to run up to any lord you see and ask:
"Does you kingdom need any mercenary's?"
"Well sure we do but we don't just recruit anyone who comes asking us."
"Is there a way for me to prove myself?"
"Well, now that you mention it, we need to cut of the supply of the X (random enemy faction). There is a supply caravan running from X to X (city's) and you need to raid it. If you manage, i might reconcider hiring you as a mercenary."
"All right, I'll do that!"
Ok i know the quest is a ripoff from that muscovite supply quest but something like this would be nice since everyone can try it as long as they have a small army. They shouldn't care about relation or renown, as long as you can fight and you prove it to them, they should hire you. Also some more rewarding but hard quests, which can grant you special equipment or maybe even a new companion like when you enter a city (not asking mayor, just entering) a lady comes running at you
"Help me plz lord"
"What happened young lady?
"They caught me while i was sleeping with another man and now my husband has send a band of assassins after me! Plz protect me"
then you have the option to help her or just walk away. If you help her she will become your companion, otherwise she manages to escape and can appear in a tavern where you can hire her however she will cost you quite some money and her skills will be higher if you rescue her because if you don't, she gets hit by an arrow and the wound starts infecting. Due to the sickness she loses some skills (just like you if you tavern battle too often).
Or maybe a quest where an elder asks you to go kill a bandit king who hides somewhere. You then start a small side storyline with quests and such just like the real thing, only less long and at the end you find his hideout. This is just like a bandit hideout in warband but the bandits are stronger and there are more. After you kill the king you can loot his bandit scepter, a very nice blunt weapon, kinda like a weak version of the black mace.
Those kind of RPG like side quests would realy add some dept to the game. I realise that something like this won't come in the next patch since it's quite some work to think of story's and such but once you know the story, i think it's quite easy to add it do the rest. Another nice thing about such quests is that you can add few and steadily increase the amount because they don't belong together...
OK i think i've been talking enough about this, maybe it's better if i open a new topic to place it in... anyways hope you like it
Aeon221
Sergeant at Arms
The villagers already regularly go to town to buy stuff and sell stuff. Cheaper food in villages is probably a good idea for that because it lets them earn a profit in towns so they can buy stuff and increase prosperity.
Enterprise stuff was way more specific than what I was thinking. I was going for something more along the lines of generic investment. You put some money into improving farming, say, and it raises output of specific agri good but your money can disappear if the town gets captured or the economic situation goes south (aka random chance).
Your quest stuff doesn't really fit with an econ thread, but it would be nice to have more generic quests that find you. Like, people visiting your castle and asking you to do stuff. Would be especially nice if some story line quests used a messenger who showed up and waited in your fief. Just adds to the feel that this is a world rather than a game.
Enterprise stuff was way more specific than what I was thinking. I was going for something more along the lines of generic investment. You put some money into improving farming, say, and it raises output of specific agri good but your money can disappear if the town gets captured or the economic situation goes south (aka random chance).
Your quest stuff doesn't really fit with an econ thread, but it would be nice to have more generic quests that find you. Like, people visiting your castle and asking you to do stuff. Would be especially nice if some story line quests used a messenger who showed up and waited in your fief. Just adds to the feel that this is a world rather than a game.
