Skirmish Echerion

Users who are viewing this thread

Alyss

Grandmaster Knight
C stairs are overpowered, and cavs have way too much space on a supposed close map
Also, team 2 can spawn kill s1 so easily and there is no escape
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
I really like this map. I think with some changes to C it will be the best skirmish map. Like Alyss said, the balcony overlooking both C and t2 spawn is overpowered. C flag overall is just very easy to hold compared to the other flags, but it just doesnt seem out of the way enough to justify that, especially for team 2.

Like alyss said, Team one can be spawnkilled. Unless it has been fixed, its actually possible for someone to jump up into the team 1 s1 spawn, even though it appears that its meant to be inaccessible.

I disagree about cav being overly good on this map. Cav have less space and there are more chokepoints for spears to hold and act as area denial than Trading Post and Town Outskirts. Its comparable to Xauna without suffering from the incredibly small map size.

Overall great looking and fun map.
 

Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
My favourite map instantly cause of the nooks and crannies to hide and ambush, you've got A and B together with C being completely away from everything else but easier to defend.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
My favourite map instantly cause of the nooks and crannies to hide and ambush, you've got A and B together with C being completely away from everything else but easier to defend.
Agreed its become my favorite map aswell. Looks nice and plays well, not crazy about the top of C but for some reason people dont force it C flag anyway.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
Agreed its become my favorite map aswell. Looks nice and plays well, not crazy about the top of C but for some reason people dont force it C flag anyway.
Im nervous that people taking winning seriously in tournament environments will be going there much more often. This map is going to see a lot of play because its a lot of fun.
 

Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Im nervous that people taking winning seriously in tournament environments will be going there much more often. This map is going to see a lot of play because its a lot of fun.

I mean, it shouldn't work. If enemy team takes C and your team ignores and takes A and B which are right next to each other then they have to come to you or they will lose the morale game.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
I mean, it shouldn't work. If enemy team takes C and your team ignores and takes A and B which are right next to each other then they have to come to you or they will lose the morale game.
You can initially push B while both teams ignore C at the start. If you hold B you can just send one guy to start capping C with 5 seconds left on timer to force a C flag. Send that same guy up to the stairs while the rest of your team moves into C and bingo. This is a situation where being able to force certain flag spawns actually hurts the gamemode. Both teams should not be having a mexican standoff intentionally avoiding taking uncontested flags just to not have to push a flag they dont want.

Overall its a complicated problem that does not need to be complicated at all with some very minor changes to C
 
You can initially push B while both teams ignore C at the start. If you hold B you can just send one guy to start capping C with 5 seconds left on timer to force a C flag. Send that same guy up to the stairs while the rest of your team moves into C and bingo. This is a situation where being able to force certain flag spawns actually hurts the gamemode. Both teams should not be having a mexican standoff intentionally avoiding taking uncontested flags just to not have to push a flag they dont want.

Overall its a complicated problem that does not need to be complicated at all with some very minor changes to C
If both teams are aware of this it results into very interesting mind game strategys. You could fight 6v5 if you know they are sending 1 guy to C for example.
I like that flag management has a bigger impact on this map.
 

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
With the beta patch going out soon, I thought its a good time to share the changes coming to this map. It will only be small adjustments, since overall people seemed to be quite fine with it.

Gameplay wise I mainly looked at the C flag. making the gallery of the building a bit less annoying and strong, but still somehow keeping it. I chose to block off the top of the stairs, so you can still get some elevation from them, but not access the whole gallery anymore.
WjDc9dJ.jpg
I also added some railing to the stairs, to indicate where you can jump off from them.
CVDlWlQ.jpg

So yeah, this will go live once the beta patch is applied. Hope you'll like it!
 

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
Hey just sharing some work in progress!

I worked a lot on Echerion and Xauna to add more details, touch on areas that were a bit neglected and loads of physics improvements.

D4jh6.jpg

Properly defined the “offroad” parts of the scene with some terrain and flora changes

In Echerion on top of many visual improvements there is gonna be a slight gameplay change at A flag, where I added some columns, making the back area a bit more interesting and giving infantry some more opportunities to decide their fights there, without blocking cavalry routes too much.

ADkbs.jpg

New pillars at A and more details

Also I made the corridors for archers, shooting at B flag more obvious.
j2SN3.png

House ruin from C

YDvZl.png

Window to A

The changes are at least one beta version away, so keep that in mind. I wanted to thank you for all your community contributions that lead to nearly a hundred small and big physics improvements on this map and Xauna.
 
Last edited:

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
Hello!
I took a bit of time going over Echerion again. The map seems to overall be performing fine, so this will maybe be the last time the gameplay will change on there for the foreseeable future (if nothing comes up).

I got a lot of ideas from feedback from players (public and tournaments), but also by playing the map myself and statistics provided by BEAST. I noticed that even though overall the games seemed to go quite balanced, if you look in the actual games the sea side team has a big advantage over B-flag (especially with their respawns), while the city side team has a harder approach to it. So even though the actual walk distance for the city-side team isn't longer to the actual B-flag position. The sea-side team can get engaged in the fight earlier and make a difference, by the nature of their approach.

This is why I went over 3 of the 4 respawns positions for the teams. It's gonna be hard to guess from the pictures maybe but their position has ever so slightly changed by a few meters. As I said I don't think the map needed huge changes, but these slight adjustments may have a proper impact on timings, especially for the B flag.
DWCIk.jpg

Red lines indicate how the whole spawn area (walls, buildings and such) have moved. Orange arrows indicate how the actual spawn positions have changed. Note that the positions of the spawns (s1, s2 et.c) on this minimap were not completely accurate.


7USsQ.png

s1 (orange/city side) moved more towards the center B-flag, but kept its distance to A-Flag. I'll see if I need to adjust the timings towards A-flag.

4AUsE.png

s2 (orange/city side) moved a little bit closed to C and to the direction of B-flag.


adZNl.png

s1 (blue/sea side) moved quite a bit further back, way to B-flag is a lot longer now. Backway to A should be around the same.

Also while doing all that I had to adjust the lighting(gi) in those areas, since I moved quite a bit of objects, so I took the opportunity and went over the whole map again and disabled a lot of unused probes and made some small light fixes in other places.
Furthermore with optimization I deleted a lot of flora that wasn't really visible or just on top of each other.

I got some reports regarding horses getting stuck on ramps and other parts of the map. I went over those spots with some players from DR (Deutschritter) that pointed out spots just like others. Please everyone feel free to reach out to me if you ever get stuck in a particular spot and post the location (preferably with some video or description) here!

Outside of all this I did another small detail pass, trying to add more assets, without impacting performance and keeping them off the ground so the gameplay area doesn't get smaller / more cluttered. And of course as every update to this map I made the window overlooking B a bit more open and obvious.

KaE-j.png

New interior of s1 (blue/sea side) spawn.

oO9rB.png

Details at A flag. That corner was always so empty. Now its a bit greener without obstructing the gameplay.

8wczv.png

B Flag with some more details and opened up window to A

Edit: These changes will come into the game with the next few updates. (So they are still some time away)
 

Errayn

Sergeant Knight
while you make changes to the maps, could you to make a small mistake if possible, make the time of the day night so we can feel what its like to play night battles in multiplayer it is just one click you guys could change that later by any hotfix thanks for the work.
 

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
while you make changes to the maps, could you to make a small mistake if possible, make the time of the day night so we can feel what its like to play night battles in multiplayer it is just one click you guys could change that later by any hotfix thanks for the work.
Haha we tried it back in beta and people didnt like it. It would actually require some more work of placing lights and such. Also the night atmosphere are still WIP.
But I guess in the future we can certainly try it again.
 

Errayn

Sergeant Knight
Haha we tried it back in beta and people didnt like it. It would actually require some more work of placing lights and such. Also the night atmosphere are still WIP.
But I guess in the future we can certainly try it again.
Yeah probably, duel maps night version was having some fps problems when we were looking. But as a clan in discord we tryed to open some maps in night and the wip maps. The atmosphere was so beatiful. I dont know if there is a difference between sp and mp but some of the maps works perfectly at night and maybe (if allowed) you guys could put it to clan matches only so it will not interrupt public play. Like you guys could just pick random map and make a second version of it and put _night in the end after 1 week or next hotfix you guys could delete it.
 
Top Bottom