easy mode should also...

Users who are viewing this thread

Dionaea

Veteran
... make us have succes in conversations, you know all of us playing on easy are still savescummning a lot (seriously 50% of the time playing is waiting for a reload of a battle or conversation to load), and the options that give succes constantly change on reloads. I'm trying to get Svana to marry me, and I've savescummed that conversation about 7 times now can we get an option where these are always a succes? Or at least not change on reload.

There's a reason why we choose to play on easy
 

paladinx333

Sergeant at Arms
I think the success percentages expressed in dialog choices are simply BS. I have been avoiding any conversation checks as I always seem to fail regardless of how high my chance of success supposedly is.
 

Bramborough

Veteran
Marriage is the one and only game event that I plan in advance to save-scum. Even if the displayed success chances are accurate (a highly dubious assumption in itself), the cumulative probability of passing six persuasion checks in a row is far less than 10%...for a one-shot-or-you're-done attempt.

Any game mechanic or event which so heavily incentivizes players to save-scum their way past it (including those who rarely or never save-scum otherwise) is one which needs some close review and revision by the devs at some point.

My hope is that this is another EA placeholder stopgap, and they've already got something much better planned before or at full release.
 

Badcritter

Squire
Any game mechanic or event which so heavily incentivizes players to save-scum their way past it (including those who rarely or never save-scum otherwise) is one which needs some close review and revision by the devs at some point.
Amen to that.

Persuasion needs a complete re-think. Hopefully its current implementation is just placeholder.
 

MightyMidgit

Sergeant
I am fine with persuasion being a 1-time only chance for some things, like quests or trying to get out of being mauled by a larger army, but others it's not so good. Take marriage for instance. You fail a single check and you are FOREVER barred from ever attempting to marry that person ever again. No 2nd chances. No matter how much better or fitting of a person you are, no matter how much of the world you rule, just because you failed to convince a lady once that you would reward those who have helped you reach where you are way back when you were a nobody, she will not even look your way again. THAT incentivizes save-scumming.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
... make us have succes in conversations, you know all of us playing on easy are still savescummning a lot (seriously 50% of the time playing is waiting for a reload of a battle or conversation to load), and the options that give succes constantly change on reloads. I'm trying to get Svana to marry me, and I've savescummed that conversation about 7 times now can we get an option where these are always a succes? Or at least not change on reload.

There's a reason why we choose to play on easy
Easy mode can get deleted. Easy modes make for cop-outs of balancing and refining gameplay. Death to easy modes!
Did you look at her page and see what traits she has? I find I get better results if I choose option that match their traits, but I still have to save scum sometimes.
I'm sure the whole system is not working as it's shown and need lots of work though.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
No 2nd chances. No matter how much better or fitting of a person you are, no matter how much of the world you rule, just because you failed to convince a lady once
Well there you go, there's that hardcore realism everyone wanted for the combat and the economy, cept for womans instead!
They could take it a step further and have you get more chances with much much easier checks if she gets to be over 35 and is unmarried.
 

quietresolve

Regular
Marriage is the one and only game event that I plan in advance to save-scum. Even if the displayed success chances are accurate (a highly dubious assumption in itself), the cumulative probability of passing six persuasion checks in a row is far less than 10%...for a one-shot-or-you're-done attempt.

Any game mechanic or event which so heavily incentivizes players to save-scum their way past it (including those who rarely or never save-scum otherwise) is one which needs some close review and revision by the devs at some point.

My hope is that this is another EA placeholder stopgap, and they've already got something much better planned before or at full release.

the short answer is... That the marriage system is far from completed. They never put any thoughts in it; it's a solid downgrade from warband, and there's not even a wedding ceremony!
 

Яowan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBNW
Easy mode can get deleted. Easy modes make for cop-outs of balancing and refining gameplay. Death to easy modes!
-snip-

Then harder difficulties should clearly be removed for much the same reason?

I personally whack everything up to the hardest, but that is purely because I want my experience to be as rough as possible when playing Mount and Blade games - at the same time, easy difficult is great when you're testing out mods and want to quickly get out of the early game. Or perhaps if you've got limited time to play, so don't want the frustration of having your progress halted due to minor mistakes (or want greater tolerance before those mistakes impact your gameplay). C'mon dude.

It'd be great if, as a vanilla feature, the game had greater difficulty customisation. That way you can tailor it to your own tastes, and maybe make certain aspects harder but if you feel x feature is a time waster and detriment to your enjoyment, nerf it to oblivion.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
Then harder difficulties should clearly be removed for much the same reason?
What harder difficulties? M&B has normal, easy and even easier.
I actually like M&B options set though and am fine with those setting choices but in many other games I don't like difficulty options.
Fair and balanced games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne have just 1 mode, game is sculpted to perfection to be played within a certain threshhole of what the player can do.
Personally I feel when games have easy normal hard superhard ect ....... there's never a good balance, it's always too easy or blatantly unfair and un-fun.
The Hard mode almost always breaks certain mechanics and renders some play styles or major parts of them game useless.
 

Badcritter

Squire
What harder difficulties? M&B has normal, easy and even easier.
Those are labels, and what they really mean is subjective. It's like how the smallest value meal you can buy is called "medium", or how the standard size pizza is called "large".

Regardless I think I understand what you mean in principle. eg. games like Dark Souls which have a reputation for being hard or brutal, are in fact designed with the fail state internalised to gameplay. You are expected to die, there are consequences for it and the give and take of death and recovery is part of the gameplay loop. You never have to reload a save game (in most such games it isn't even possible to do so) because the gameplay takes care of allowing you to continue to play and progress in spite of the setback. MMO's also have to work that way, since you can't reload from a save. I am a big fan of that paradigm, and I lose a measure of respect for games which feel like they flow better when you rely on restoring save games after failure events.

Warband sat on the edge of this for me, where I would mostly discipline myself not to reload after failures, but some areas I would say "nope, this is stupid, I'm going to reload and try that again." Bannerlord, being in a beta state, I reload much more liberally since I'm playing more to test than for an immersed progression experience... as well as the fact that it currently contains more scenarios where the fail event consequences feel stupid.

Interestingly when it comes to persuasion Warband's system was less transparant, and to the extent we could tell what was going on it wasn't particularly compelling either. It used seeded values for the random component so you couldn't save scum anyway. There is merit in that, but it remains the case that it is not satisfying to feel like critical success points of the game come down to a dice roll.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
Those are labels, and what they really mean is subjective
Not for the main damage options in M&B, on normal damage you're taking the same damage calculations as other lords and units. If you set it lower you're giving yourself or your units a blatant advantage. In warband lowering the damage and having good armor make you and high tier troops almost invulnerable as you will get hit for 0 damage. Whether you want to be treated the same as the AI in combat is an important choice. The other options are more subjective though as they give all AI certain benefits.

As far as reloading, I think you can learn so much more about how to play from taking chances and trying again then from being hyper conservative.
 

Badcritter

Squire
Not for the main damage options in M&B, on normal damage you're taking the same damage calculations as other lords and units.
I get what you're saying. My point regarding the subjectivity even for those aspects which are anchored to an identifiably level playing field was that the overall experience of difficulty is also dependent on how effective the AI's combat skills are, relative to the average player (or the average starting player).

If the AI's combat capability is godlike, "normal" (combat damage is consistent for player and AI) would more accurately be labelled "hard" if it is describing combat difficulty.
 

Maximum997

Squire
Fair and balanced games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne have just 1 mode, game is sculpted to perfection to be played within a certain threshhole of what the player can do.
Literaly everyone can complete DS or BB. I realy wanted hard difficulty for DS, becouse i dont like to run naked to make a challenge.
And Sekiro was just boring. Nothing to do with no exploring and no RPG elements.
 

Dionaea

Veteran
Not for the main damage options in M&B, on normal damage you're taking the same damage calculations as other lords and units. If you set it lower you're giving yourself or your units a blatant advantage. In warband lowering the damage and having good armor make you and high tier troops almost invulnerable as you will get hit for 0 damage. Whether you want to be treated the same as the AI in combat is an important choice. The other options are more subjective though as they give all AI certain benefits.

As far as reloading, I think you can learn so much more about how to play from taking chances and trying again then from being hyper conservative.

Some people are roleplaying a certain Hollywoodian or adventure novel playstyle where the hero always beats the impossible odds, always gets the girl he wants defeats 1000 enemies with an army of 50 without losing a single man thanks to "brilliant tactics and plucky attitude"

for those of us who do that there is easy mode. I'm married and have a kid and all social events are canceled and the football competition is canceled so there's no going to the stadium to shout all of life's frustrations away, don't give me extra frustration in my escapism.

I don't want to be challenged in my escapism I want to escape reality and be entertained for a bunch of hours in between household tasks and cooking whilst my wife watches her soap opera's in between her household chores and my daughter plays her minecraft and roblox after she finishes the homework the teacher mails us, the guitar teacher mails us, the solmization teacher mails us and the visual arts teacher sends us every week. We also regularly have to help the daughter, which isn't a problem but is time consuming and tedious when she has days of being unmotivated and her "I don't understand" is born from not even wanting to try.

In between all that I would like to play my fantasy character Sigurd Braidhair, that can bash heads in, is an inspiring leader and a great raider and tactician preventing the Sturgians from being overrun by everyone and marries Svana, leaves the Sturgians and conquers Ustokol castle to form the kingdom of: haven't decided on a name yet, and don't have to. I'm starting a new campaign and a new roleplay now that this one is ruined I'm going to be a Vlandian/Norman adventurer with an army of bandits (highwaymen, forrest bandits and sea raiders, the desert and steppe bandits are a bit too squischy in my experience) and conquer Ustokol and bring my Normans back to their viking roots and marry Liena. Not sure yet to call my character Robbert, Tancred or Bohemund and use Guiscard as a last name
 
Top Bottom