Dual wielding, pros and cons why it wasn't used inside a specialized unit.

[Ililsa]

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tfw you're too white to jump 

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

No, it is actually a leading tool with which the person will either retreat from that statement or he/she will ask, in a more specific manner, why the statement is incorrect.

oooooooorrr.... you could simply say straight up why its incorrect. Instead of speaking infuriatingly.

in this particular discussion I do to a degree share your opinion, but christ you're really **** at arguing a point.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I'd never do that stupid 'X' thing. Never, ever, ever, ever. Never. Because you'd still be under their weapon and if your parry fails, is too slow, is too low, and their weapon gets through, you'll be struck, you need to recover your weapons and in that time you're open and defenceless. Rapier treatise intends to place the person's body in a safe position where they cannot be struck, or at the very least it is hard to do so.

I'd suggest watching the whole thing, but at 3:35 is a good part to watch concerning this.

As for the point on a whole, Matt Easton makes some very excellent points in this video:

 

[Bromden]

He might be making excellent points (I don't know; I fell asleep at two minutes), but he is **** at handling two swords.

 

[Austupaio]

Is there a video of someone doing a better job?

 

[Mamlaz]

Nick Thomas and his AHF crew are the only ones(to my knowledge) that actually posted videos of it being done in sparring;

Dual sabre;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilyl2G7PWF4

Dual rapiers;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dvkjp_ApbM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjs4mbZovCM

Single sabre vs dual sabre;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKWexfowj0

 

[Bromden]

I'm not much into these youtuber talk-a-lot guys, but Wakayama Tomisaburo does a great job at the end of Shogun Assassin.

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Edit: why are all those sabre guys so damn slow?

 

[Mamlaz]

You mean the background guys or the dual fighters?

 

[Bromden]

The foreground guys. In the first video, left guy is really slow and indecisive, like he is trying to solve the problem of too many swords intellectually. He starts attacks but doesn't deliver any of 'em properly, like he goes and rethinks his life during every move. The right guy is a bit quicker, because he solves the problem with using his left sword as a shield (or more like a stick to hide behind). But still, they are not dynamic and active enough. My guess would be it's either because of all the kevlar, which would be funny, because the kevlar's function should be to let the fighters not to hold back, or it's because the lack of (or more like single kind of) fighting spirit, that I commonly see in all these newfound western martial arts (most of 'em didn't really step forward yet from being all technique). The second sabre vid has similar illnesses.

 

[matmohair1]

Is there a video of someone doing a better job?

 

[Bromden]

Ah, the secret ancient killing technique of throwing your sword high up in the air. These guys probably live off such exhibition shows.

 

[Mamlaz]

Don't forget the Yoshimitsu helicopter sword spins.

Best looking scale armor I ever saw to date though.

The foreground guys. In the first video, left guy is really slow and indecisive, like he is trying to solve the problem of too many swords intellectually. He starts attacks but doesn't deliver any of 'em properly, like he goes and rethinks his life during every move. The right guy is a bit quicker, because he solves the problem with using his left sword as a shield (or more like a stick to hide behind). But still, they are not dynamic and active enough. My guess would be it's either because of all the kevlar, which would be funny, because the kevlar's function should be to let the fighters not to hold back, or it's because the lack of (or more like single kind of) fighting spirit, that I commonly see in all these newfound western martial arts (most of 'em didn't really step forward yet from being all technique). The second sabre vid has similar illnesses.

They probably are not versed much in the art of dual.

It is not like they are prone to practice it a lot, they have actual/regular fencing to do and teach.

Though, perhaps that is exactly what duel wielding looks like, since the presence of both weapons makes both attacking and parrying more difficult.

 

[Bromden]

That's called the umbrella technique, because it's for staying dry in a rainy battlefield. Fatso is really enthusiastic, he does everything possible with his hands to compensate for his weak points (his gigantic, self-conscious ass and stomach).

 

[Mamlaz]

I have finally found what we have been looking for;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i8vUux0uxQ

He even murders the ground beneath him.

 

[Bromden]

Ah yes, the modern american reinvention of asian martial arts (it gave us treasures like afro ninja). It's usefulness is summed up in the first 3 seconds: holding two swords, his first move is a spinning-jumping kick.

 

[matmohair1]

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[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

warband_multiplayer.jpg

 

[Mamlaz]

I watched some kenjutsu/kendo videos to try and figure out what you meant by the "lack of fighting spirit" in HEMA, I see no difference in that regard at all, just a lot less shouting in western arts and less hot chicks in waistcoats in eastern arts.

I think the main reason there is less constant aggression is the fact that in modern fencing, kendo and other sports, hit doubling is not counted as failure, while in HEMA it is outright despised and sometimes even a punishable offence if repeated too often.

Thus, the dudes you see in the videos are adamant in hitting the opponent without getting hit themselves, which requires less aggressive combat.

 

[Bromden]

It's not about the shouting and the agression, it's about the dynamic nature of the spirit in a duel. They constantly fight with the same mindset, the same rhytm, like playing chess. They miss a lot of opportunities because of this. If they either would miss a half beat with their move to cut into the opponent's rhytm or go agressive and whack into 'em a couple of quick and strong ones, they'd be much more effective. They also don't seem to use all three dimensions, they go almost always only back and forth, and their attacks are generally at the same height.
It's like they don't enjoy doing it enough. Their game lacks "playing".

 

[Mamlaz]

They constantly fight with the same mindset, the same rhytm, like playing chess. They miss a lot of opportunities because of this. If they either would miss a half beat with their move to cut into the opponent's rhytm or go agressive and whack into 'em a couple of quick and strong ones, they'd be much more effective.

In HEMA, victory is usually achieved when the opponent does not strike you back after being struck by you, that is why they cannot simply lunge into every opening they see.

They also don't seem to use all three dimensions, they go almost always only back and forth, and their attacks are generally at the same height.
It's like they don't enjoy doing it enough. Their game lacks "playing".

Perhaps, though, the videos seem more like an experiment with dual wielding or even a demonstration rather than actual full throttle sparring.

For instance, if you look at actual tournaments, the fencers are all over the place and far more "active";

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC1AcwxGzrU


These are the same dudes in the dual videos;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE7vVyMHvAs


There is also the nit that those dudes are Westerners(Brits), fencing becomes more aggressive the eastwards you go into Europe;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT4JepA-Vc