Drunk rape justified?

[Sir Saladin]

Dress in rags and go barefoot or you are just asking for trouble.

 

[Tibertus]

I'd prefer if everyone went around nude.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

4) You only need insurance when you own a car, you can drive a car and cause accidents even when you don't own one and thus pay no insurance at all.

Maybe where you are. Here, you need insurance to legally drive a car. Hence kids can be put on their parents' insurance as a third party, but they still pay extortionate fees, and they don't accrue any no-claims-bonus because they're not the primary driver of the vehicle.

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

I hope you guys would realize that "slutty" and "drunk" are two entirely different things. The former does not usually inhibit your ability to defend yourself and/or evading potential trouble should bad stuffs happen.

You've never walked with pace in high-heel have you?

What I meant is, even in high heels and the most frilly dress in existence (like Magical Girl-frilly) you still have your eyes, control over your hand-eye coordination, alertness and sound judgement. I'd argue the last two are the most important to get away from any kind of trouble by simply noticing it and slink off before it realizes you're there.

Of course, this is all highly situational.

 

[Devercia]

So....no? 

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

Hell naw, what would society think of a 20-something single male in high heels?

 

[Eктωρ]

Rape's never justified. Abuse under substances is still abuse.

 

[Jhessail]

The problem with what both Devercia and Argeus the Paladin say is that we're still so insanely close to the times were majority of rapes were not even reported thanks to social stigma. Even today, even in the "enlightened" societies of west and north Europe (and Canada), victim blaming is depressingly common. Thus, things like slut walks are necessary. Of course it's common sense not to get **** faced. Of course it's common sense not to walk alone in a bad neighbourhood after dark. But it's more important to run awareness campaigns to hammer the fact home to all people that taking advantage of intoxicated or vulnerable people is WRONG and that women have the right to dress "slutty" without that giving tacit permission for sexual abuse.

When there are no more cases where the clothing or behaviour of the victim is questioned during a trial and there are no more floods of misogynist curmudgeons flooding messageboards claiming that "she was asking for it", ****, when people (men but disappointingly also some women) in RL social situations don't say **** like that, we can start focusing entirely on the common sense side of the things.

Because it seems that even today, young men are not warned by the society of getting intoxicated or walking alone after dark, whereas young women are. The fact that this ****ing thread even exists is disappointing and proves my point.

 

[Devercia]

That stigma is inherent in jerks. Changing the laws of responsibility, or even the interpretations of responsibility for the sake of converting jerks to the light is both problematic and questionably effective. As I said, its not only an exclusively a sociological issue, but any sociological plan is rife with unintended consequences.

The victims actions need to be questioned so long as they are relevant to the defense, such as when the argument is that the encounter was consensual. To throw away these questions in their entirety on account of them being sensitive is ethical nonfeasance. Circumstance qualifies that, of course.

As far as stigma, I question the effect of slutwalks, whatever other effects they may have, is that they tend to be alienating and bizarre to people outside of campus culture. It would seem conceivable that doing so would build the stigma in the minds of those most likely to be swayed by writing off rape as "asking for it."

 

[Jhessail]

Or not. Gay Pride marches have done wonders for both awareness and acceptance of gays and lesbians. As long as they don't turn into orgies. like the ones in San Francisco, perfectly "normal" straight people join in and come to observe them, some with kids. They raise awareness and show to people that gay people exist, live amongst us and so on. The slut walks did the same thing and they were common enough, and large enough, that they weren't just "campus culture", whatever the **** that is.

 

[Devercia]

Its San Francisco.  That's like preaching to the choir. I can't say one way or another whether or not gay pride parades directly effected public opinion in the non-gay community. I can say it did raise political activity and, as its name suggests, pride within the gay community. That can easily be mistaken for changing public opinion, especially when the public doesn't care, especially when the anti-gay community says the public does care. In this case, the "asking for it" crowd, as the anti-gay crowd, is only incensed by it. I wonder how much of the public that is not strictly in the "she asked for it" crowd would make such a remark out of hand, and if so, would be convinced by a parade. I also question how many people that give attention to a gay pride parade that are not already favorably disposed to one degree or another. How many fundamentalist Christians do you think joined in the revelries?

Campus culture is the spirit of a university. It is not limited to this, but I am referring to examples in areas where the dominant culture is oppose to or simply ambivalent to the campus culture. Basically, redstates moderate bluestates and non-American equivalents. It is not so much due to anti-intelletualism, but that campuses tend to be echochambers for leftist but not necessarily liberal thought. Where the majority is favorable, and in such a position to shame those that do not agree with the idea wholesale, just as you did when you first weighed in. If you question its existence, there are cases of community and administrative censorship and even direct punishment of unpopular and unduly vilified speech in campuses that pride themselves on the free exchange of ideas.

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

Unlike Jhess, I have no faith/illusion/whatever that a group of radical, however good and progressive, can substantially change the world by any means. So while the outcome of such social campaigns are still dubious and arguable, I would advice all those I know, male and female alike, to follow common sense. You can't really go wrong with that.

Then again, keep in mind that my upbringing has always valued "coping" over "combating", for good or ill. Take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

 

[bgfan]

If both male and female have equally high BAC's, it's pretty damn sexist to pin it all on the guy.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

So while the outcome of such social campaigns are still dubious and arguable, I would advice all those I know, male and female alike, to follow common sense. You can't really go wrong with that.

Everyone differs as to what common sense is. It's an empty answer.

 

[Mad Vader]

Yeah, if you don't tell people to use common sense, they do really stupid things.

Social activism works, people. It delivers a message. You may not like it, but you hear it, and that can be enough.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Yeah, if you don't tell people to use common sense, they do really stupid things.

Lets not forget that after telling people to use their common sense, they also tend to get into a lot of avoidable trouble. It's more or less just a word that means "do what I think is right" without elaborating on what that is because not even the speaker knows.

You just can't appeal to common sense like some sort of oracle when you offer no rational reason as to why it's right. Appealing to it in name only is just as bad, as it is it the reasons that make the argument, and so much so that you could probably ditch the common sense part and go with straight to the reasons instead.

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

I guess I should elaborate a little further. My point is, I would rather tell people I know to take whatever precaution deemed necessary (mostly not getting out alone after dark far away from home and not getting drunk) to prevent bad stuffs from happening than shooting for an awareness campaign. So yeah, I was using "common sense" more or less as a buzzword there rather than meaning exactly what I said.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I'd rather do both

 

[Bulle]

What do you guys think about what happened in Steubenville? Link.

 

[Ambalon]

I think the black guy in the picture is very tall.