Dragoons are getting ridiculous.

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Thokan

Sergeant Knight
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Jordan_The_Noble said:
Please, lets stop *****ing about this now.. simply make a suggestion thread if you have an issue as this is getting on my tits.
*****ing about *****ing?
 

Maroon

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
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Thokan said:
*****ing about *****ing?
Really? What is the point of this reaction? All he's saying is that this is/was a suggestion thread, not a rant thread.
 
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Maybe remove musketoons and make cav muskets unable to fire on horseback? That way the dragoon would have to use either crap-accuracy carbine on the horse or dismount to fire cav musket. sounds more realistic and offers the class more possibilities. Jack of all trades, master of none.
 

jbebes

I suggest that you get rid of being able to equip guns on a moving horse, or just all together and for dragoons to shoot, just dismount. Riding with a gun is really silly if you think about it. Unless your horse's chest is screwed into a beyonet, your aim would be totally off and your guns will just be bouncing about.
 

McEwanMaster77

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWBNW
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jbebes said:
I suggest that you get rid of being able to equip guns on a moving horse, or just all together and for dragoons to shoot, just dismount. Riding with a gun is really silly if you think about it. Unless your horse's chest is screwed into a beyonet, your aim would be totally off and your guns will just be bouncing about.
Riding with a gun isn't uncommon. Shooting from horseback lasted all the way through the Civil War era and even into WWI. It takes people years of practice to be anything near effective when shooting from horseback. This is why I think that only the accuracy of the guns while on horseback, and only on horseback, should be greatly reduced, when you're moving or standing still, as horses never really stop moving, and since the soldiers of the Napoleonic Wars were not by large masters of their craft, it would make sense to go with that suggestion more than anything else previously suggested.

Just my input.  :smile:
 
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McEwanMaster77 said:
jbebes said:
I suggest that you get rid of being able to equip guns on a moving horse, or just all together and for dragoons to shoot, just dismount. Riding with a gun is really silly if you think about it. Unless your horse's chest is screwed into a beyonet, your aim would be totally off and your guns will just be bouncing about.
Riding with a gun isn't uncommon. Shooting from horseback lasted all the way through the Civil War era and even into WWI. It takes people years of practice to be anything near effective when shooting from horseback. This is why I think that only the accuracy of the guns while on horseback, and only on horseback, should be greatly reduced, when you're moving or standing still, as horses never really stop moving, and since the soldiers of the Napoleonic Wars were not by large masters of their craft, it would make sense to go with that suggestion more than anything else previously suggested.

Just my input.  :smile:
I agree on the accuracy part - there have even been times that i have played as a cuirassier officer and killed many with pistols in "reiter style", needless to say a musket/carbine will do even better! On foot, the cav musket actually gets me more kills than the rifle through sniping, btw. Quite an overly accurate weapon, a result of the devs trying to use it to represent skirmisher muskets.
 

Dr Funk

Sergeant
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I would urge people frustrated by dragoons to simply stay in groups of 3 or more. Even in the open, if a dragoon manages to hit one of you, it is more than guaranteed that your buddies will avenge you. Historically, the dragoons were some of the least trained, least well equipped horsemen in the army, and so to use them as skirmishers, shooting somewhat optimistically while moving, is not strange. The problem is that in the limited numbers of players which the game fields at a time, almost every type of unit is going to find itself in a different role than it would be in, especially given that cavalry start out mixed and do not form up either. If anything, I think people should look at the way they are implemented now as sort of a model of historicity. You have troops with essentially nothing going for them still managing to perform the psychological role of a skirmisher in a video game, in which it is very difficult to actually die. I would even go so far as to hypothesize that dragoons could contribute almost as much to their team if their muskets did not in fact fire anything, yet still seemed like they did, because of the disorganization which their presence seems to instill.
 

YourStepDad

Baron
WBWF&SNWVC
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In my opinion, there is no debate that the accuracy on horseback should be drastically reduced. Not that drastically at close range though.
 

TheBoberton

Grandmaster Knight
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McEwanMaster77 said:
it would make sense to go with that suggestion more than anything else previously suggested.
TheBoberton said:
Also, I dare say that a good solution to the dragoon 'problem' is something that will piss most people off;
Give all cavalry some form of firearm, bring dragoons up to par with heavy cavalry, then drop off the accuracy of all cavalry classes.

This would do a few things;
First, it would allow all cavalry to hold their own against dragoons, who currently have a monopoly on mounted firearms.
Second, it would eliminate the distinction between 'normal' cavalry and dragoons, thus getting rid of what is currently a class composed entirely of compromises.
Third, it would allow for infantry to have a more distinct advantage over cavalry in terms of firearm usage, due to all cavalry being less accurate than dragoons are now.
Also, the reducing of accuracy would make firearms more of a weapon to be used in the charge, against massed infantry, rather than something to be used at range against single targets.
Anyways..
 

Thokan

Sergeant Knight
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Imperial Eagle said:
McEwanMaster77 said:
jbebes said:
I suggest that you get rid of being able to equip guns on a moving horse, or just all together and for dragoons to shoot, just dismount. Riding with a gun is really silly if you think about it. Unless your horse's chest is screwed into a beyonet, your aim would be totally off and your guns will just be bouncing about.
Riding with a gun isn't uncommon. Shooting from horseback lasted all the way through the Civil War era and even into WWI. It takes people years of practice to be anything near effective when shooting from horseback. This is why I think that only the accuracy of the guns while on horseback, and only on horseback, should be greatly reduced, when you're moving or standing still, as horses never really stop moving, and since the soldiers of the Napoleonic Wars were not by large masters of their craft, it would make sense to go with that suggestion more than anything else previously suggested.

Just my input.  :smile:
I agree on the accuracy part - there have even been times that i have played as a cuirassier officer and killed many with pistols in "reiter style", needless to say a musket/carbine will do even better! On foot, the cav musket actually gets me more kills than the rifle through sniping, btw. Quite an overly accurate weapon, a result of the devs trying to use it to represent skirmisher muskets.
YourStepDad said:
In my opinion, there is no debate that the accuracy on horseback should be drastically reduced. Not that drastically at close range though.
The thing is. Lowering the accuracy is exactly what has already been done and somewhat caused the dragoon to become such a ****ty class. The lowering of the accuracy is totally ineffective since as we touched upon beforem you dont really aim when you do drivebyes. All you need is the angle and close distance and you will probably hit since the bullet wont have time to spread, since its so close.

jbebes's would actually solve the problem, and that's why I have advocated removing of the firing from horseback.
 

TheBoberton

Grandmaster Knight
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Thokan said:
jbebes's would actually solve the problem, and that's why I have advocated removing of the firing from horseback.
Then certainly we can begin making preparations for removing firing whilst walking on foot, because that's just as much of an inconvenience to all involved, and is, to an extent, far more used than firing from horseback; especially given the very low loss in accuracy with some classes. (To the point where rifles don't even lose any accuracy at all whilst moving.)
 

YourStepDad

Baron
WBWF&SNWVC
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Thokan said:
Imperial Eagle said:
McEwanMaster77 said:
jbebes said:
I suggest that you get rid of being able to equip guns on a moving horse, or just all together and for dragoons to shoot, just dismount. Riding with a gun is really silly if you think about it. Unless your horse's chest is screwed into a beyonet, your aim would be totally off and your guns will just be bouncing about.
Riding with a gun isn't uncommon. Shooting from horseback lasted all the way through the Civil War era and even into WWI. It takes people years of practice to be anything near effective when shooting from horseback. This is why I think that only the accuracy of the guns while on horseback, and only on horseback, should be greatly reduced, when you're moving or standing still, as horses never really stop moving, and since the soldiers of the Napoleonic Wars were not by large masters of their craft, it would make sense to go with that suggestion more than anything else previously suggested.

Just my input.  :smile:
I agree on the accuracy part - there have even been times that i have played as a cuirassier officer and killed many with pistols in "reiter style", needless to say a musket/carbine will do even better! On foot, the cav musket actually gets me more kills than the rifle through sniping, btw. Quite an overly accurate weapon, a result of the devs trying to use it to represent skirmisher muskets.
YourStepDad said:
In my opinion, there is no debate that the accuracy on horseback should be drastically reduced. Not that drastically at close range though.
The thing is. Lowering the accuracy is exactly what has already been done and somewhat caused the dragoon to become such a ****ty class. The lowering of the accuracy is totally ineffective since as we touched upon beforem you dont really aim when you do drivebyes. All you need is the angle and close distance and you will probably hit since the bullet wont have time to spread, since its so close.

jbebes's would actually solve the problem, and that's why I have advocated removing of the firing from horseback.
Was it? I feel as accurate on horseback as ever.
 

Thokan

Sergeant Knight
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YourStepDad said:
Thokan said:
Imperial Eagle said:
McEwanMaster77 said:
jbebes said:
I suggest that you get rid of being able to equip guns on a moving horse, or just all together and for dragoons to shoot, just dismount. Riding with a gun is really silly if you think about it. Unless your horse's chest is screwed into a beyonet, your aim would be totally off and your guns will just be bouncing about.
Riding with a gun isn't uncommon. Shooting from horseback lasted all the way through the Civil War era and even into WWI. It takes people years of practice to be anything near effective when shooting from horseback. This is why I think that only the accuracy of the guns while on horseback, and only on horseback, should be greatly reduced, when you're moving or standing still, as horses never really stop moving, and since the soldiers of the Napoleonic Wars were not by large masters of their craft, it would make sense to go with that suggestion more than anything else previously suggested.

Just my input.  :smile:
I agree on the accuracy part - there have even been times that i have played as a cuirassier officer and killed many with pistols in "reiter style", needless to say a musket/carbine will do even better! On foot, the cav musket actually gets me more kills than the rifle through sniping, btw. Quite an overly accurate weapon, a result of the devs trying to use it to represent skirmisher muskets.
YourStepDad said:
In my opinion, there is no debate that the accuracy on horseback should be drastically reduced. Not that drastically at close range though.
The thing is. Lowering the accuracy is exactly what has already been done and somewhat caused the dragoon to become such a ****ty class. The lowering of the accuracy is totally ineffective since as we touched upon beforem you dont really aim when you do drivebyes. All you need is the angle and close distance and you will probably hit since the bullet wont have time to spread, since its so close.

jbebes's would actually solve the problem, and that's why I have advocated removing of the firing from horseback.
Was it? I feel as accurate on horseback as ever.
The cavalry with the most shooting skill is actually not titled dragoon. It's the green-jacketed Austrian Chevaulgarde(or something) light-cav which only got cav musket equippable.

And as stated, if you are close enough aiming proficiency really doesnt matter.
 

nilloc93

Squire
WBNWVC
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read the first 3 pages
went on a pub server
killed 3 dragoons in 1 life as ranker
2 shot
1 stabbed
i disagree with authors ideas
 

Maroon

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
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TheBoberton said:
Also, I dare say that a good solution to the dragoon 'problem' is something that will piss most people off;
Give all cavalry some form of firearm, bring dragoons up to par with heavy cavalry, then drop off the accuracy of all cavalry classes.

This would do a few things;
First, it would allow all cavalry to hold their own against dragoons, who currently have a monopoly on mounted firearms.
Second, it would eliminate the distinction between 'normal' cavalry and dragoons, thus getting rid of what is currently a class composed entirely of compromises.
Third, it would allow for infantry to have a more distinct advantage over cavalry in terms of firearm usage, due to all cavalry being less accurate than dragoons are now.
Also, the reducing of accuracy would make firearms more of a weapon to be used in the charge, against massed infantry, rather than something to be used at range against single targets.
Nonononono, never! Every cav class has an officer rank with a pistol now, which is more than enough! Besides being horribly historically inaccurate, it makes all cav hit-and-run cav, including cuirassiers, who already have increased armor. And whether or not the firearm would be too inaccurate to use on single targets, people on random servers would still try to do so.
 

TheBoberton

Grandmaster Knight
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Maroon said:
Besides being horribly historically inaccurate,
Every cavalryman in the Napoleonic Wars carried at least one firearm, quite often more. To do otherwise was suicide.

Maroon said:
it makes all cav hit-and-run cav, including cuirassiers, who already have increased armor.
Cavalry are, by definition, a hit and run force. Giving them firearms won't change that.

Also, giving heavy cavalry firearms would prevent the current issue of them being run down by dragoons that are significantly faster than them, without being able to retaliate. (Frustrating as hell, I assure you.)

Maroon said:
And whether or not the firearm would be too inaccurate to use on single targets, people on random servers would still try to do so.
Is it better to have all the cavalry on a single team spam one class that is actually rather accurate whilst moving at relatively high speeds, compared to multiple that aren't?
 
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Maroon said:
TheBoberton said:
Also, I dare say that a good solution to the dragoon 'problem' is something that will piss most people off;
Give all cavalry some form of firearm, bring dragoons up to par with heavy cavalry, then drop off the accuracy of all cavalry classes.

This would do a few things;
First, it would allow all cavalry to hold their own against dragoons, who currently have a monopoly on mounted firearms.
Second, it would eliminate the distinction between 'normal' cavalry and dragoons, thus getting rid of what is currently a class composed entirely of compromises.
Third, it would allow for infantry to have a more distinct advantage over cavalry in terms of firearm usage, due to all cavalry being less accurate than dragoons are now.
Also, the reducing of accuracy would make firearms more of a weapon to be used in the charge, against massed infantry, rather than something to be used at range against single targets.
Nonononono, never! Every cav class has an officer rank with a pistol now, which is more than enough! Besides being horribly historically inaccurate, it makes all cav hit-and-run cav, including cuirassiers, who already have increased armor. And whether or not the firearm would be too inaccurate to use on single targets, people on random servers would still try to do so.
Actually, cuirassiers don't have increased armor. Their HP is just higher, which leads to unrealistic consequences (i.e. light cav swords and butterknives slashing through "armor". People should have to use the techniques of the time and either stab through the armor, or aim at unprotected areas...
 

Faewulf

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNW
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I don't quite see how dragoons are op.

(By the way, are these halloween profile pictures automated?)