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cdvader
Fear him .... FEAR HIM!
I will explain ... eventually... almst 5 o clock in the morning. sleep time
I will explain ... eventually... almst 5 o clock in the morning. sleep time
I take it that replaced all the humans in the game? Or not?
HokieBT
Grandmaster Knight
wow, I'm really hope we can get this working... you can define the skeleton in the module_skins.py file, so by creating new races with different skeletons we could limit it to certain troops. But, the fact that his body passes through the ground is a little worrisome...
Dain Ironfoot
Count
As I said in the other thread, rubbish! I'm loading a new BRF, full of custom animations, with the name newanims as part of my mod.
cdvader
[quote author= Highelf]I take it that replaced all the humans in the game? Or not?[/quote]
Yup... All the other humans (without my special body mesh armor with the special skeleton) were really messed up.
[quote author= amade]Are they still at the object center or has the skeleton been placed lower than the object center?[/quote]
The skeleton is placed lower than the object center.
[quote author= HokieBT]wow, I'm really hope we can get this working... you can define the skeleton in the module_skins.py file, so by creating new races with different skeletons we could limit it to certain troops. But, the fact that his body passes through the ground is a little worrisome...[/quote]
I've got good news and bad news. Yes, you can exchange the existing skeleton to make your guys taller, yes you can define the skeleton in module_skins.py, and yes, the body-through-ground is easy to fix.
The bad news: I can't think of any possible way to tie your new skel_troll (I named my skeleton that) to any other hardcoded animation. And sadly, I now can't think of any possible way how to actually even make new run animations. So, it's not really possible to do unless we get a better Animations system by the developers.
cdvader
[quote author= Dain Ironfoot]As I said in the other thread, rubbish! I'm loading a new BRF, full of custom animations, with the name newanims as part of my mod.[/quote]
Really? I seemed to get the RGL Error (get_skeleton_anim failed for: myanim), but by doing that method, I no longer got it.
Yup... All the other humans (without my special body mesh armor with the special skeleton) were really messed up.
[quote author= amade]Are they still at the object center or has the skeleton been placed lower than the object center?[/quote]
The skeleton is placed lower than the object center.
[quote author= HokieBT]wow, I'm really hope we can get this working... you can define the skeleton in the module_skins.py file, so by creating new races with different skeletons we could limit it to certain troops. But, the fact that his body passes through the ground is a little worrisome...[/quote]
I've got good news and bad news. Yes, you can exchange the existing skeleton to make your guys taller, yes you can define the skeleton in module_skins.py, and yes, the body-through-ground is easy to fix.
The bad news: I can't think of any possible way to tie your new skel_troll (I named my skeleton that) to any other hardcoded animation. And sadly, I now can't think of any possible way how to actually even make new run animations. So, it's not really possible to do unless we get a better Animations system by the developers.
cdvader
[quote author= Dain Ironfoot]As I said in the other thread, rubbish! I'm loading a new BRF, full of custom animations, with the name newanims as part of my mod.[/quote]
Really? I seemed to get the RGL Error (get_skeleton_anim failed for: myanim), but by doing that method, I no longer got it.
Dain Ironfoot
Count
I only got that error if I got the name of the animation I was loading wrong, or forgot to save the BRF. I just load the new animation file normally..
That error sounds more like you may have a problem with how you set up module_animation.
Also it'd seem Mtarini has shown that I'm a twit for chopping off the reference frames of my animations! This should sort out my mounted animations.
That error sounds more like you may have a problem with how you set up module_animation.
Also it'd seem Mtarini has shown that I'm a twit for chopping off the reference frames of my animations! This should sort out my mounted animations.
cdvader
Explanation on how I did the god-king guy (
) : First, I opened 'body_meshes.brf'. Then I exported 'man_body' as Rigged mesh. Opened 3ds Max 2009, imported in the 'man_body.smd' and did this: Selected ALL of the things, scaled them all up (greatly) and moved everything a bit more down (should've moved upwards), exported the current scene as 'troll_body.smd'. Then I left everything the same, deleted the mesh which was around the skeleton system, exported as 'skel_troll.smd'.
After that, I opened "skeletons.brf", renamed "skel_human" to "skel_human_backup" and "skel_troll" to "skel_human", saved it and made a new .brf file with the 'troll_body.smd' in it, saved and set everything up in the ModuleSystem, went in-game and everything was actually working (and perfectly, too). Animations, etc, all was working. And that's it.
I was actually surprised it worked...
cdvader
) : First, I opened 'body_meshes.brf'. Then I exported 'man_body' as Rigged mesh. Opened 3ds Max 2009, imported in the 'man_body.smd' and did this: Selected ALL of the things, scaled them all up (greatly) and moved everything a bit more down (should've moved upwards), exported the current scene as 'troll_body.smd'. Then I left everything the same, deleted the mesh which was around the skeleton system, exported as 'skel_troll.smd'. After that, I opened "skeletons.brf", renamed "skel_human" to "skel_human_backup" and "skel_troll" to "skel_human", saved it and made a new .brf file with the 'troll_body.smd' in it, saved and set everything up in the ModuleSystem, went in-game and everything was actually working (and perfectly, too). Animations, etc, all was working. And that's it.
I was actually surprised it worked...
cdvader
check man_body and troll_body inside openbrf...
do they have different values for vertices or positions (look in the data box)?
I just added an option to recompute normals... I bet it would get rid of that shading problem.
If only I had a working ftp, I would put it online right away.
I known shading is a totally secondary problem, the main issue are elsewhere...
[[[ long edit ]]]
Explaination:
The point is that the shading is flat (you can see triangles), denouncing that the internal structure is... redundant (see tech explanation below if you are interested). In OpenBRF, when you import a mesh there is an automatic unify operation that unifies vertices and positions after importing of a mesh. You can check the total number of faces, vertices and position in the "data" box.
[[Tech detail: in a brf mesh (rigged or not), there are three entities: "faces", "vertices" and "positions". A "face" indexes a triplet of "vertices", a "vertex" indexes single a "position". Texture coords, normals, colors, are tied to the "vertices". 3D positions (x,y,z) and rigging are tied to the "position". This is made so that two different "vertices", with for example different uv text coords, can index the same "position". Now, when you load a SMD file, each face has its own set of three positions, three normals, hence the need to unify them]]
Q: Why do you say that you need animations for your giant? Don't the standard animation work for it?
In any case, there might be a possibility to assign specific animations to specific skins. Might. See comments on your tutorial for adding animations.
do they have different values for vertices or positions (look in the data box)?
I just added an option to recompute normals... I bet it would get rid of that shading problem.
If only I had a working ftp, I would put it online right away.
I known shading is a totally secondary problem, the main issue are elsewhere...
[[[ long edit ]]]
Explaination:
The point is that the shading is flat (you can see triangles), denouncing that the internal structure is... redundant (see tech explanation below if you are interested). In OpenBRF, when you import a mesh there is an automatic unify operation that unifies vertices and positions after importing of a mesh. You can check the total number of faces, vertices and position in the "data" box.
[[Tech detail: in a brf mesh (rigged or not), there are three entities: "faces", "vertices" and "positions". A "face" indexes a triplet of "vertices", a "vertex" indexes single a "position". Texture coords, normals, colors, are tied to the "vertices". 3D positions (x,y,z) and rigging are tied to the "position". This is made so that two different "vertices", with for example different uv text coords, can index the same "position". Now, when you load a SMD file, each face has its own set of three positions, three normals, hence the need to unify them]]
Q: Why do you say that you need animations for your giant? Don't the standard animation work for it?
In any case, there might be a possibility to assign specific animations to specific skins. Might. See comments on your tutorial for adding animations.
HokieBT
Grandmaster Knight
cdvader, thanks for the summary, we will have to try that.
on a side note, does anybody know what skeleton_bodies.xml in the Data folder is used for? It looks like we could define extra skeletons in this and with Swyter's iron launcher we could ship a custom data folder... I'm guessing its just something like for ragdollls but I'm trying to figure out if there is anything we are missing....
on a side note, does anybody know what skeleton_bodies.xml in the Data folder is used for? It looks like we could define extra skeletons in this and with Swyter's iron launcher we could ship a custom data folder... I'm guessing its just something like for ragdollls but I'm trying to figure out if there is anything we are missing....
That is a mayor find!
Outstanding!
Apparently, that's where:
- ragdoll parameters
- hitboxes
data is hidden!
WOW!!!
Edit: more detailed explaination
In that file, for each bone, I see that they specify:
- Ragdolling parameters: like mass, maximal angles and other constraints
(for example, so that the ragdolling cannot bend the knees backward) - Bodies
"Bodies" is how M&B calls collision objects.
In a Brf file, a "body" is a small set of objects (often one), that can be of various kinds.
In that "skeleton_bodies.xml" file, all bodies I see are composed by a single object of the kind "capsule".
"Capsules" in M&B terms (used by brf files) is a collision object which is a cylinder.
It is defined by the two points, which are the centers of the two bases, and a scalar radius.
I know because I interpreted the "body" for the catapult (see screenshot on 1st page) which
in composed by several "capsules" (and one "manifold", that is, a closed mesh)...
FrisianDude
Archduke
Holy ****.
Merlkir
mtarini 说:
That is a major find!
Outstanding!
Apparently, that's where:
- ragdoll parameters
- hitboxes
data is hidden!
WOW!!!
Edit: more detailed explaination
In that file, for each bone, I see that they specify:
- Ragdolling parameters: specifically, mass, maximal angles, etc
(for example, specifying that the ragdolling cannot bend the knees backward)- Bodies
"Bodies" is how M&B calls collision objects.
In a Brf file, a "body" is a small set of objects, that can be of various kinds.
In that "skeleton_bodies.xml" file, all bodies I see are composed by a single object of the kind "capsule".
"Capsules" is a collision object which is a cylinder.
It is defined by the two points, which are the centers of the two bases, and a scalar radius.
I know because I interpreted the "body" for the catapult (see screenshot on 1st page) which
in composed by several "capsules" (and one "manifold", that is, a closed mesh)...
Is it? What is it useful for? Nothing to help us with skeletons and animations, right?
First of all, this solves a likely problem that we did not know we had:
new skeletons, to be added in the game so that new characters use them, need to have their extra data specified in that file.
Probably we cannot add new skeletons w/o this.
Then, it potentially solves a problem we knew we had:
how to determine hitboxes. Before, we had just a global scaling factor, which is obviously not descriptive enough (for example, drarwes are just vertically shorter, not smaller in each direction).
Finally, it potentially unlocks almost unlimited modding flexibility:
before, we couldn't dare redefine new skeletons with different number of bones (say, a tailed lizard man) because we feared that bone names (and number) were linked to hard-wired stuff (hitboxes and ragdolling, for example). Now, we can hope that there is nothing hard-wired, and we can add (say) lizard-men if only we put enough effort in it (redefine skeleton, animations, meshes, hitboxes and ragdolling parameters for them).
new skeletons, to be added in the game so that new characters use them, need to have their extra data specified in that file.
Probably we cannot add new skeletons w/o this.
Then, it potentially solves a problem we knew we had:
how to determine hitboxes. Before, we had just a global scaling factor, which is obviously not descriptive enough (for example, drarwes are just vertically shorter, not smaller in each direction).
Finally, it potentially unlocks almost unlimited modding flexibility:
before, we couldn't dare redefine new skeletons with different number of bones (say, a tailed lizard man) because we feared that bone names (and number) were linked to hard-wired stuff (hitboxes and ragdolling, for example). Now, we can hope that there is nothing hard-wired, and we can add (say) lizard-men if only we put enough effort in it (redefine skeleton, animations, meshes, hitboxes and ragdolling parameters for them).
cdvader
[quote author= mtarini]Q: Why do you say that you need animations for your giant? Don't the standard animation work for it?
In any case, there might be a possibility to assign specific animations to specific skins. Might. See comments on your tutorial for adding animations.[/quote]
Well, I thought the skel_human and the animations are tied to each other somehow. BUT! I will try out the skeleton_body.xml stuff out now!
In any case, there might be a possibility to assign specific animations to specific skins. Might. See comments on your tutorial for adding animations.[/quote]
Well, I thought the skel_human and the animations are tied to each other somehow. BUT! I will try out the skeleton_body.xml stuff out now!
cdvader
Holy ****. It works. Well, I'm off to write a new tutorial.
cdvader
cdvader
cdvader 说:
It depends...
if the new skeletons only redefines pone positions/distances, the old animation can work for it (naturally you might still want to customize the way it is animated).
If the new skeleton redefines bone rotations (e.g. your hunchman skeleton has the hunched back) then you probably want new animations for it because animations will just ignore are redefine any skeleton bone rotation.
(if the skeleton has a different number of bones, naturally, then it requires new ani)
Your god-king falls in the 1st case.
cdvader
Dain Ironfoot
Count
interesting. It'd require the root bone to be moved up as well.. I wonder if there's an easy way of doing that for all animations without having to do it manually.. Would mean I could finally release my lego mod too.
