dont like how sp makes level advancement...

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Mimmitar

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Okay, but unless you change how the system works, there won't actually be a difference. You are literally only changing what is shown and what it's called, not how the system works.
The difference is that your no longer incentivised to take the low hanging fruit. You don't have to look at the easy levels in 2H, throwing, etc if you don't use them.
 

Mimmitar

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Not a problem, the benefits of this system is that all playstyles are now variable. If you want to focus, you can without punishment. If you want to level everything, likewise.

I'm sure there are some negatives I haven't considered but overall it feels like a suitable compromise between new and old systems.
 

shnauser

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The system is still broken. Even in 1.10. You will reach hard cap in all skills before you get the chance to push any skill to 250. I'm currently level 20 in my Vlandia test run of the 1.1 beta and ALL my stats are soft/hard capped except 4 skills. Those skills can give me 3 levels more and with that i would get 3 FP points and possibly a attribute point. Problem is i need 100sp at this point to level up and the highest skill i have at the moment is no where near +200.

You have to grind skills you don't want to use so you can get FP/Attribute points to spend in the ones you do want to use. But even then it's not enough to become master of something. Your companions are even worse as they have wasted FP points in skills they can't even use.

There has to be a better way than this.
 

Archonsod

Marquis
M&BWBWF&S
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It already does that. Your EXP rate is much higher the more green there is. As you get closer to the boundary it drops.
I believe some of that is related to focus point spending though.
Instead of completely nixing the penalty phase (where you go past the boundary far enough till you get 0xp gain) they should cap the total possible attribute amounts like they do focus, and once you hit the maximum attribute level the penalty should never reach 0. Something like 0.5 instead. And that should really only take effect around 250 to 275.
The problem with the cap goes back to what I was saying about the relative value of the attributes. Vigour, Control and to an extent Endurance are somewhat hampered by the fact that they contain multiple skills you wouldn't ordinarily expect on the one character while Social and Intelligence contain skills you do generally want on the same character. This causes a problem since combat skills in particular tend to be quicker to level, so at some point if you're playing a horse archer for example you end up needing to spend time as a crossbow wielding infantryman to raise the otherwise useless athletics and crossbow skills enough to let you raise the cap on riding and archery. Play a trader on the other hand and since all three of their important skills come under Social and tend to be a little slower to raise you don't really hit the same problem until much later, if at all.
Removing the cap and using attributes as a bonus mitigates this somewhat simply by removing the need to grind redundant skills for more combat oriented playstyles (and relying on the non-combat skills being slower to raise simply due to opportunity to prevent those becoming efficient means of power leveling).
 

Wolfsblut

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I believe some of that is related to focus point spending though.
Almost all of it is.
Attribute contribution only adds a small amount of green/higher exp rate.
And once you've spent the max amount of five focus points, you're done.
If i remember right that wall hits at 175.
 

ComradeCoconut

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I think to fix the system we need to at very least change leveling to a total skill XP requirement, not a total skill levels requirement.

Additionally though there needs to be some way to increase stats without grinding out a certain task over and over.

I think the system for leveling up weapons in Warband could be a good starting place. You got points in your One Handed, Two Handed, Polearm, Archery, Crossbow, and Throwing skills primarily by using those different types of weapons in combat. However, you also gained a few points to spend on any of those stats when you leveled up, allowing you to get better at using a certain weapon without grinding use of it. This wasn't unlimited though. Higher levels took more points and there was a cap, set by the Weapons Master skill, on how much you could manually increase them.

This would be easy to implement. Just give people some bonus XP whenever they level up that can be given to any stat, and then increase the level up cost for the next level by the amount you give them. Just don't let people use this XP on stats that have hit their cap.

Alternatively, you could implement a reading books or tutoring system where we can pay money to buy books or hire people to increase our skills whenever we're resting. That way if we don't want to grind a specific activity to increase a skill, we don't have to.
 

Emeri1

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Currently it also makes it feel bad to use companions in your party. I mean sure i want the much better medic in my team to heal my people. However I need to level medicine in order to level up my character, I can't level medicine while my medic is healing. Same also goes for scouting, tactics, honestly all skills. It seems like companions are there to run caravans or to have a really nice unkillable (yet woundable) murder machine in your party. I felt like my companions doing things I couldn't specialize in was a good thing in warband, but here it feels like they are taking exp away from my character. Also as mentioned earlier, all ranged skills under the same attribute makes me sad.
 

karijus

Regular
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Currently it also makes it feel bad to use companions in your party. I mean sure i want the much better medic in my team to heal my people. However I need to level medicine in order to level up my character, I can't level medicine while my medic is healing. Same also goes for scouting, tactics, honestly all skills. It seems like companions are there to run caravans or to have a really nice unkillable (yet woundable) murder machine in your party. I felt like my companions doing things I couldn't specialize in was a good thing in warband, but here it feels like they are taking exp away from my character. Also as mentioned earlier, all ranged skills under the same attribute makes me sad.
That is so annoying. I decided I'd use my high skill medic for serious situations, and just grind medicine on myself in other cases. I decided to go through at least 1 full playthrough, but this stuff is just tedious.
 

tizuby

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I believe some of that is related to focus point spending though.

The problem with the cap goes back to what I was saying about the relative value of the attributes. Vigour, Control and to an extent Endurance are somewhat hampered by the fact that they contain multiple skills you wouldn't ordinarily expect on the one character while Social and Intelligence contain skills you do generally want on the same character. This causes a problem since combat skills in particular tend to be quicker to level, so at some point if you're playing a horse archer for example you end up needing to spend time as a crossbow wielding infantryman to raise the otherwise useless athletics and crossbow skills enough to let you raise the cap on riding and archery. Play a trader on the other hand and since all three of their important skills come under Social and tend to be a little slower to raise you don't really hit the same problem until much later, if at all.
Removing the cap and using attributes as a bonus mitigates this somewhat simply by removing the need to grind redundant skills for more combat oriented playstyles (and relying on the non-combat skills being slower to raise simply due to opportunity to prevent those becoming efficient means of power leveling).
The speed at which those get leveled and the amount of things that grant experience to those skills can fairly easily be increased though. It's a balancing issue.

Right now those skills are very much unbalanced compared to the combat skills.

Steward skill is, for example, very easy to level. Roll around the map with 4-5 types of food and some troops and it levels nearly every day.

Medicine, conversely, levels very slowly right now because you have to sit in town and not much XP is granted while troops are recovering. Unless you're taking massive amounts of wounded it'll never get high. Leadership needs non-army related ways to increase it, as does tactics. Trading needs more of a boost, perhaps even a passive gain from your caravans and workshops when they're operating at a profit.

*Edit* (Accidentally hit some combination of buttons that put the focus on "post" and hit enter.... doh)