Does talent exist?

[Soil]

Before this:

There's no such thing as talent. Dedication, practice and an open mind are what you need.
Not even the masters were gifted with a talent at all. They all learned it.

and the following comments fill up the art thread, let's discuss this in a seperate thread.

What you are describing is learning and practicing in the early childhood. Remember that when it comes to music and art, the playing or the drawing or the whatever is not necessarily the only important thing to improve. It's the main, basic traits and characteristic attributes which have a great impact on them and those are progressed less or more even in the first years of a child. So later on, when it comes to the real art, children with from different families and environments and with different experiences of life build on varying high fundaments. No such thing as born talent.

As much as you'd like to present this as a fact, this is still subject to a lot of discussion among psychologists, biologists and other scientists. Something they are relatively sure of, however, is that the "tabula rasa" concept of a human is not true. It's mostly down to discussing just how much is genetical and how much is due to the environment, while most think the environment to have a larger effect.
To give you a simple example, how would you explain that two brothers raised in the same family can have completely different skills and interests?

Besides, even if we assume someone's skills depended entirely on his upbringing, that may very well be considered a sort of talent, too. As I already explained, they do not already have more skills than others, they are better at learning things related to that skill, as well. It is an intellectual/coordinational advantage which cannot be aqcuired later on and I suppose that's how you could define talents (even though most dictionaries define it as a "natural ability", sometimes even just a skill.)

 

[Soil]

You did not read my post, did you?

 

[Verbeek]

'montadillo has a "natural ability" for not reading ****. You can't blame him.
Also, Soil is right. I'm sure genetical factors influence ability as well as environmental factors and development.

 

[Paula]

hmm, my mother made all her kids do swimming for competitions (because she's an avid swimmer herself), but apparently I was better at it than my sister, even though we trained at the same facility...so I guess I had more talent for it than her? is that at least kind of the kind of thing you mean?

 

[Merlkir]

I used to be against talent, but then I took...

eh, sorry.

I used to agree with Faradon, but then Frazetta and many others. Talent seems to exist, but it's not what most people often think it is.

If people call me talented, I have to laugh.

 

[AWdeV]

Frankly, I doubt "talent" is something that is limited to a skill. I don't think someone is talented at that skill but rather that they have a natural advantage towards performing that skill. Looking at Paula's example, it could be Paula had a better bone or muscle structure for swimming, but that doesn't mean she doesn't need to practice a hell of a lot to become a world-class swimmer.

For example, Dutch swimmer Pieter van den Hoogenband has a sort of dent in his chest which helps him swim. In his case it's very noticeable but I think that's his "talent".

 

[Revilo]

You can't have a natural aptitude for having a dent in your chest - the dent isn't the talent, but it does help with his natural talent for swimming.

That's kinda like saying that the people who receive serious brain trauma and end up being good artists or whatever is because the brain damage is their talent.

 

[Ambalon]

'montadillo has a "natural ability" for not reading ****. You can't blame him.
Also, Soil is right. I'm sure genetical factors influence ability as well as environmental factors and development.

This.

 

[AWdeV]

You can't have a natural aptitude for having a dent in your chest - the dent isn't the talent, but it does help with his natural talent for swimming.

Bravo, you've stumbled on my point.

That's kinda like saying that the people who receive serious brain trauma and end up being good artists or whatever is because the brain damage is their talent.

It's kina like saying that if the serious brain trauma turns out to help them become good artists then yes, that is their "talent". I don't think "talent" is a natural skill, it's rather what helps people develop their skill. Yes, they may be better at it right from the point and that is often called talent. I rather think that it is not just a single thing but a combination of factors that give them a small leg-up.

 

[Vieira151]

See, I'm not sure if I think 'Talent' doesn't exist. I think it does, but it is influenced greatly by other factors.

I mean, the only reason I think Talent exists is because I seem to be good at things even if I barely ever practice them, or work hard. Such as musical instruments or tennis. I mean, I used to play trumpet. I never ever practiced at home, and had 1 lesson a week (and occasional band practice once a week. I never practiced the music at home) and I seemed capable of keeping up with other people in my group who would spend a lot of time at home practicing.

The same goes for tennis. I have beaten people who are older, more experienced and fitter than me who have worked hard to get to the level they are at.

So yeah, those may not be concrete evidence, but I think 'talent' does exist, but it is helped a lot by other factors. 

 

[Darwin]

I think talent is much about what you like and what you don't like. If you like playing tennis, you are automatically better at it, because you actually try hard to be good and because you train more than if you don't like playing tennis. What you like and what you don't like is influenced by genes and upbringing, as stated a few million times in this thread and elsewhere.

 

[Vieira151]

Well, I recently had a discussion with myself(that was started by talking to a friend) as to whether I like or don't like anything I've done in my life(due to a number of reasons), so I don't feel I can reply to that without the topic going down a different route, or without it getting completely confused. 

But yeah, I think liking something also will affect talent. I don't see how that would affect what I said previously. I mean, surely if they worked hard at tennis and were part of the club they would also like playing tennis too? I mean, a lot of the time the matches I speak of are just casual, fun matches.

 

[Darwin]

I didn't want to say anything against your post at all.
I just picked up your tennis example because I couldn't think of another one.

 

[Vieira151]

Oh, ok. Well, I'll save anything I was going to say, because it would have taken this down a route headed towards depression. 

 

[Devercia]

This seems to be a rehash of the brilliance v experience thread. To sum it up, it was agreed that brilliance (mental talent) did two things. It allowed a person to gain much more from experience, and allowed the person to synthesize experience via mental model building. For physical activities, I would simply imagine talent is a physical predisposition. Of course, most activities are both mental and physical.

ON the question of where it comes from, that's a bit like asking why some people, regardless of education, are more clever than others.

 

[Sound Chaser]

I used to agree with Faradon, but then Frazetta and many others. Talent seems to exist, but it's not what most people often think it is.

If people call me talented, I have to laugh.

Although it's not like if you weren't the best in the world, it would mean you weren't talented at all.

 

[Tarias]

I don't think you are born with talent for a particular skill, but that you're born with talent for learning skills quicker than others.

 

[Archonsod]

how would you explain that two brothers raised in the same family can have completely different skills and interests?

Because neither are determined by genetics? It's not really a tricky question really. Unless of course skills and interests include things like the ability to touch your tongue with your nose.

The problem with attempting to argue inherent talent is that there are few things humanity can do that we couldn't program a robot to do better, and machines are by definition lacking in talent. Plus of course all skills beyond the ability to **** and eat have to be learned at some point. Even walking.

 

[AWdeV]

Is that decided solely by genetics though? I now I can roll up my tongue and can turn it sideways but I also know FrisianDude can't. We're twins. What gives?

 

[Night Ninja]

In my experience, 'talent' is usually used as a copout by the mediocre.