Does Bannerlord need more Time?

  • I believe it needs more time.

  • I believe it should stick to a schedule.


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TW said they only want Bannerord to be a simple game.. GREAT! that means an earlier release and modders can take over and create a more complex, deeper game.

The game currently is a very good simple strategic game, it needs bug fixes and some aspects still aren't finished but we have time for completion. I think the game is currently about 90 % complete.

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Spyware

Regular
TW said they only want Bannerord to be a simple game.. GREAT! that means an earlier release and modders can take over and create a more complex, deeper game.

The game currently is a very good simple strategic game, it needs bug fixes and some aspects still aren't finished but we have time for competition. I think the game is currently about 90 % complete.

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If it is a simple game, then I can see it being done by the 2nd Quarter of 2022.

I was probably blindsided by all these complaints and demands by different players on what they think should be added to Bannerlord when TaleWorlds had no such intentions in the first place. Assuming, of course.

But these ideas aren't really bad. It's just implementing them and the scale of some of these demands and suggestions that I recognize as monumental.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I don't remember which dev said it now but they didn't even had a clear and cohesive development project, they were more or less developing on demand, and then scraping and doing it all again when management had a change of heart instead of starting the project with everything "set in stone" and then just making it happen.
It was mexxico.
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I wish we had all game design 8 years ago (when we start this project) and we follow that design document. Probably we could finish game sooner if that kind of development is followed. If this was the case all these problems would be already solved. We are trying to add features one by one and this is not best way to create a detailed game like Bannerlord because all different features are connected each other and we should think all together not one by one. Adding features one by one is dangerous (can broke existing mechanics). However Warband is also developed that way too and be a great game. But even Warband example I think this is hard way to develop a game.
 
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Mexxico is right and wrong, you can build a game either way, from a rigid design document set down at the beginning ..Or flexibly changing the design with new ideas etc. I prefer the latter, it takes longer but produces a better, more enjoyable game to play once done.

As to WB, wouldn't it be GREAT if TW did a WB Remastered edition, with all the current patches and game-play-enhancement mods added in ...

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Spyware

Regular
Mexxico is right and wrong, you can build a game either way, from a rigid design document set down at the beginning ..Or flexibly changing the design with new ideas etc. I prefer the latter, it takes longer but produces a better, more enjoyable game to play once done.

As to WB, wouldn't it be GREAT if TW did a WB Remastered edition, with all the current patches and game-play-enhancement mods added in ...

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While it is true there is no one way to make a game, this is really bad for a team effort because everyone has to catch up to speed and coordinate together. They have to be kept on level to be able to function properly or be immensely delayed as people are figuring out at the very least what the person proposing the idea intends or a semblance of the idea at all.
 

MostBlunted

On probation
I was probably blindsided by all these complaints and demands by different players on what they think should be added to Bannerlord when TaleWorlds had no such intentions in the first place. Assuming, of course.
Yea, don´t forget the stuff they wanted to add (pre release dev blogs / trailers / gamescon showcase) and scrapped it.
 

julijs

Sergeant
WBNWVC
I was probably blindsided by all these complaints and demands by different players on what they think should be added to Bannerlord when TaleWorlds had no such intentions in the first place. Assuming, of course.
many of these demands were warranted, as they were features/mechanics that Taleworld's advertised pre/release but completely abandoned and scrapped post release. Bannerlord wasn't supposed to be simple from what we gather in their "in-depth" developer blogs (boy they really didn't skip out on the detail sometimes) which is where the sheep textures irony comes in.

If they managed to discard those prior development plans, and the plans currently - then where does the line end? giving it more time puts it into indefinite status of development. Having a serious change or improvement of leadership and coordination for Taleworld's is the only way i see that we'll get a means to an end when it comes to receiving a complete game.

But these ideas aren't really bad. It's just implementing them and the scale of some of these demands and suggestions that I recognize as monumental.
The whole disarray from these forums shifted from community feedback on what they'd wish to see/change, to Taleworld's and its own intentions after finding out they had no intent on considering said feedback.

Now its a goalpost for Taleworld's to actually complete the features they promised/showcased (of what hasn't been abandoned now), and that's a train wreck of itself.
 

Spyware

Regular
Yea, don´t forget the stuff they wanted to add (pre release dev blogs / trailers / gamescon showcase) and scrapped it.
If you have been part of game design, stuff always gets scrapped because it would deviate from the original spirit of the game or the vision and sometimes takes away from the core and substance. Sometimes, less is more. Your features may have worked well before, but sometimes when you're working on a project, the addition of more features and materials either makes things redundant, wonky, imbalanced or you made a mini-game that was waaaay more fun than the actual game.

I don't however claim to know all the reasons, so you may be right. They may have been incompetent, or they just made a bad decision. I don't know for certain.

many of these demands were warranted, as they were features/mechanics that Taleworld's advertised pre/release but completely abandoned and scrapped post release. Bannerlord wasn't supposed to be simple from what we gather in their "in-depth" developer blogs (boy they really didn't skip out on the detail sometimes) which is where the sheep textures irony comes in.

Ditto on my point to MostBlunted.

If they managed to discard those prior development plans, and the plans currently - then where does the line end? giving it more time puts it into indefinite status of development. Having a serious change or improvement of leadership and coordination for Taleworld's is the only way i see that we'll get a means to an end when it comes to receiving a complete game.

I've accepted the apparent dismal performance, but also acknowledged the unhealthy feedback loop. Giving it indefinite early access until the community agrees it's ready may at the very least appease all as the game itself will have the final approval of the community.

The alternative, with the way things are going, if you are correct on everything you have said - is a horrible half baked game with garbage everywhere because it was forced to be released before it was ever ready to be.

The whole disarray from these forums shifted from community feedback on what they'd wish to see/change, to Taleworld's and its own intentions after finding out they had no intent on considering said feedback.

Now its a goalpost for Taleworld's to actually complete the features they promised/showcased (of what hasn't been abandoned now), and that's a train wreck of itself.

It is a big game you have to admit. I'm personally forgiving them for the recent years for obvious reasons.
 

five bucks

Squire
I'm happy with them missing lots of release dates if they deem it necessary, so long as the monthly patches contain major features and fixes to the serious problems with the game.
As to WB, wouldn't it be GREAT if TW did a WB Remastered edition, with all the current patches and game-play-enhancement mods added in ...
What about a Warband total conversion mod for Bannerlord? Same music, same aesthetics, same characters, same troop trees.
 
This isn't something for the devs, rather this should be discussion aimed towards all of us, the players and community of Mount and Blade. I've seen lots of diverse differing demands and people unsatisfied with the current product or its end result. In the devs' defense, it is still early access and much of it is to be refined or added later on which I'm understanding of and they did work on the game and announced it at least 2012(nine years ago from the time of this writing). In the players' defense, a lot of it is really really half-baked. Like, early access singleplayer campaigned voiced lines half-baked. Jesus...

Bannerlord, especially with what we want, seems that it will be a very big game. TaleWorlds' plans of course are different from our vision of the game. And who can blame them? Some of us want it to be more like the mods in Warband, others want it to just be a better Warband in general and let the mods cover all that stuff we want anyway, while many others want it to go to a completely new direction and take inspiration from other games such as Total War or Crusader Kings. We all enjoy different aspects of Mount & Blade and I think the game, with its own proprietary engine is actually capable of all that to the point of beating games waaay out of its genre. Mount and Blade style is just that great and very modular.

I really think we can all be satisfied as players - however, I do not think we have enough time to complete all of this with the supposed release date of the 2nd Quarter of 2022.

I personally think it would be best to accept Bannerlord as a constantly developing game in persistent early access, where then instead of our frustration for the stuff and mechanics we want not being implemented, our frustration at the devs for not giving a release when it's practically done should be the key decider of when the game seems finished. This way, we'd all decide as a community if a persistent majority says "It's a full game, holy ****e. Stop with the early access bull.", there would be great confidence and support from us that may help mitigate risk and hesitancy from TaleWorlds(it is still a business after all).

We must accept that TaleWorlds is now a business and no longer an independent passion project made from some garage. They have to earn their pay and eat, so there will be corporate nuances that may dampen or compromise the passion or vision of a few.

I used to love certain companies for having so much passion and love for their games. DICE as my personal example with the Battlefield franchise, until they just started become a Call of Duty competitor and later almost indistinguishable from Call of Duty and vice versa(according to me anyway). They simply beacme corporate and lost their touch, partly because it was profitable for them to take that approach.

I think TaleWorlds is currently in a good position, but over time, as with most game companies, I think it will lose vision and passion. We, as a community, must safeguard that passion and vision but remember that we too can sap it away with our persistent annoying demands and singlemindedness without regard for the difficulties of game design and concerns of others from the roleplayers, to the multiplayers to the speed runners, the hardcore and the casuals. I really hope TaleWorlds doesn't go the way of other studios that became big and lose their touch, part of that responsibility lay in attempting to appease ungrateful original fans vs attractive fast money from lowest common denominators.

Enjoy the game for what it is, but always stay hungry that it can be better while considering what it takes to get there. I hope this discussion may offer an alternative for community feedback relations.
It needs more time...but the game is already getting old without even being finished. I love the concept, but Taleworld just hasn't been able to pull it off this time.
 
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