Does anybody like current Clan system (Singleplayer)?

[Lorcalus]

I am genuinely interested. Since launch there have been many constructive discussions about whats working/missing in game but i havent seen anybody really saying anything about Clans.

In my opinion its a mess of a mechanic. It tries to combine dynastic play with hierarhic without really doing it right (especially hierarchy). Also, where is variation between factions. It doesnt make sense for Empire and Vlandia at least to have clans. Everything feels like a huge steppe with tribal clans mascarading as different factions. In many ways, it fells like a copy paste of clan mechanics in multiplayer games in terms that it is all encompasing system of combining different characters with only goal of making it look like organization.

In my opinion game needs at least seperate hierarhic system from clan system to have some sense of a clear progression in terms of gaining rank that unlocks different new systems to play with. Also, is it too much to ask for variation? If kingdoms and whole game fells completely the same no matter where you start, at least cultural part should have variation instead of all encompassing clan system that basically does nothing and fells like multiplayer system snuck into SP.

Anyway, fell free to comment. I would really like to hear others opinion on this.

 

[svelok]

I like clans. It's sort of like a mini kingdom to manage, earlier on in a campaign, with your own "vassals" running around and everything.

 

[vonbalt]

I love it, yes it could be improved everything always can but the current system is awesome, for Vlandia or the empire it simulates noble houses (it was even called house of xxxx before they came with the dey something in Vlandia for example).

The only thing i see that could be a nice improvement is giving each clan member individual opinions, currently they all follow the clan head in relationships, it would add another nice layer of intrigue if each member held their own opinions and could even split from the clan if it got bad enough with the clanhead, maybe fighting a clan-civil war for control of it? Would be fun along with clan wars in the same faction aswell

 

[Nodice83]

I am genuinely interested. Since launch there have been many constructive discussions about whats working/missing in game but i havent seen anybody really saying anything about Clans.

In my opinion its a mess of a mechanic. It tries to combine dynastic play with hierarhic without really doing it right (especially hierarchy). Also, where is variation between factions. It doesnt make sense for Empire and Vlandia at least to have clans. Everything feels like a huge steppe with tribal clans mascarading as different factions. In many ways, it fells like a copy paste of clan mechanics in multiplayer games in terms that it is all encompasing system of combining different characters with only goal of making it look like organization.

In my opinion game needs at least seperate hierarhic system from clan system to have some sense of a clear progression in terms of gaining rank that unlocks different new systems to play with. Also, is it too much to ask for variation? If kingdoms and whole game fells completely the same no matter where you start, at least cultural part should have variation instead of all encompassing clan system that basically does nothing and fells like multiplayer system snuck into SP.

Anyway, fell free to comment. I would really like to hear others opinion on this.

I like the idea of various clans being part of the kingdom, however this mechanic lacks immersion and interaction options in its current state.

P.S. I'am already pretty discouraged from posting new ideas to this game. I mean completely new features, not some minor bug fixes and little upgrades to current game state. I read few great ideas, equal amount of good and bad ideas, some were out of the box, posted few myself, no matter the content,... i was left with an impression nobody from TW cares....

They want to finalize the game as soon as possible, solving current balancing issues, without messing too much with the current game code. Otherwise they will not meet promised deadline (which i believe Callum menioned is the end of the year). So far only mexxico from the dev team has admitted that there are certain new mechanics that should probably be considered and implemented (e.g. alliances). He has also proven to be very community friendly person and recently confirmed new balancing feature - uprisings and revoultions... that will be implemented in new patches. I just hope that after AE is gone, they will free up some resources for some more advanced developments of this game...

All in all - i want to be supprised how wrong i was writting all this.

Peace !

 

[guiskj]

I agree that it fails to model any kind of real life medieval government.

However, I think that is outside the scope of Bannerlord. Their vision obviously does not include a living realistic world as non of their system or content currently support.

Bannerlord is first and foremost a action-focused medieval fighting simulator. Which is fine, though not what I would have purchased if I had known.

 

[StewVader]

I like the idea of various clans being part of the kingdom, however this mechanic lacks immersion and interaction options in its current state.

P.S. I'am already pretty discouraged from posting new ideas to this game. I mean completely new features, not some minor bug fixes and little upgrades to current game state. I read few great ideas, equal amount of good and bad ideas, some were out of the box, posted few myself, no matter the content,... i was left with an impression nobody from TW cares....

They want to finalize the game as soon as possible, solving current balancing issues, without messing too much with the current game code. Otherwise they will not meet promised deadline (which i believe Callum menioned is the end of the year). So far only mexxico from the dev team has admitted that there are certain new mechanics that should probably be considered and implemented (e.g. alliances). He has also proven to be very community friendly person and recently confirmed new balancing feature - uprisings and revoultions... that will be implemented in new patches. I just hope that after AE is gone, they will free up some resources for some more advanced developments of this game...

All in all - i want to be supprised how wrong i was writting all this.

Peace !

I get the same exact thoughts as you. There really doesn't seem to be any desire from TW to change the game that much from its current state. I think your analysis is accurate; they want to finalize the game as soon as possible with only minor tweaks. They don't appear to have any desire to make the game more complex or immersive. I don't know why they cant just come out and say what they think the game will be at release, so all expectations can be tempered or extinguished. Surely, they must have an idea by now of how the game will be in 6 months.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

I like it how it is. It's depth could be deeper by adding intrigues like @vonbalt mentioned, but the bones are strong and are in the right place.

 

[StewVader]

I agree that it fails to model any kind of real life medieval government.

However, I think that is outside the scope of Bannerlord. Their vision obviously does not include a living realistic world as non of their system or content currently support.

Bannerlord is first and foremost a action-focused medieval fighting simulator. Which is fine, though not what I would have purchased if I had known.

Exactly. I wish I had known too.

 

[Old-Bull]

I am genuinely interested. Since launch there have been many constructive discussions about whats working/missing in game but i havent seen anybody really saying anything about Clans.

In my opinion its a mess of a mechanic. It tries to combine dynastic play with hierarhic without really doing it right (especially hierarchy). Also, where is variation between factions. It doesnt make sense for Empire and Vlandia at least to have clans. Everything feels like a huge steppe with tribal clans mascarading as different factions. In many ways, it fells like a copy paste of clan mechanics in multiplayer games in terms that it is all encompasing system of combining different characters with only goal of making it look like organization.

In my opinion game needs at least seperate hierarhic system from clan system to have some sense of a clear progression in terms of gaining rank that unlocks different new systems to play with. Also, is it too much to ask for variation? If kingdoms and whole game fells completely the same no matter where you start, at least cultural part should have variation instead of all encompassing clan system that basically does nothing and fells like multiplayer system snuck into SP.

Anyway, fell free to comment. I would really like to hear others opinion on this.

It's a million times better than Viking Conquest's system of recruiting and retaining lords. If you enjoyed spamming cocktail party's so you can greet everyone that shows up, then VC might have been better.

Personally, I would rather smash my big toe with a sledge hammer than host one more "relation" building party, so I could talk to everyone that showed up.

The Clan system is way better than that.

 

[StewVader]

It's a million times better than Viking Conquest's system of recruiting and retaining lords. If you enjoyed spamming cocktail party's so you can greet everyone that shows up, then VC might have been better.

Personally, I would rather smash my big toe with a sledge hammer than host one more "relation" building party, so I could talk to everyone that showed up.

The Clan system is way better than that.

Can it even be called a system though? Its a bare-bones nothing way to group NPCs, and doesn't really do anything. It also seems really lazy to me, since each Clan is just a hivemind.

 

[Stromming]

I like the clan system, but sure it could be expanded upon. not really necessary though

 

[Apocal]

I prefer it.

In my opinion its a mess of a mechanic. It tries to combine dynastic play with hierarhic without really doing it right (especially hierarchy). Also, where is variation between factions. It doesnt make sense for Empire and Vlandia at least to have clans.

The 11th century ERE was dominated (at least in Anatolia) by large, landowning dynatoi, which map reasonably close to the way clans are in Bannerlord.

 

[Svang]

They feel a bit rigid to me, no real agency amongst clan members as they all pull in the same direction.

The Crusader Kings-series dealt with familial bonds and intrigue a lot better and TW should have allowed themselves to be inspired by that. A dynasty doesn't feel locked to a single faction but exists seemingly independently and its members feel like actual humans with their own opinions and ambitions.

 

[Littlepage]

It doesnt make sense for Empire and Vlandia at least to have clans.

Call them clans, call them dynasties, it's the same thing. The basic unit is the family composed of its various members. That is well suited for Vlandia and the Empire. Whether Vlandia is medieval normans or dark age franks that lends itself to the importance of dynasties. If the empire is anything like the ERE, then dynasties play a significant role in it.

Personally the system needs some way for a different clan to gain control of the faction, right now the most unbelievable part of the system is that a single dynasty remains in control of the faction forever.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

Call them clans, call them dynasties, it's the same thing. The basic unit is the family composed of its various members. That is well suited for Vlandia and the Empire. Whether Vlandia is medieval normans or dark age franks that lends itself to the importance of dynasties. If the empire is anything like the ERE, then dynasties play a significant role in it.

Personally the system needs some way for a different clan to gain control of the faction, right now the most unbelievable part of the system is that a single dynasty remains in control of the faction forever.

I think rebellions might help inspire some dynamic actions in that front. It would also make the change of the guard for a faction more consequential. Either taking it by force or through duel combat (maybe assassination?)

 

[Svang]

Personally the system needs some way for a different clan to gain control of the faction, right now the most unbelievable part of the system is that a single dynasty remains in control of the faction forever.

That would do a lot for this system. I hope this is on the developers' drawing board.

 

[StewVader]

They feel a bit rigid to me, no real agency amongst clan members as they all pull in the same direction.

The Crusader Kings-series dealt with familial bonds and intrigue a lot better and TW should have allowed themselves to be inspired by that. A dynasty doesn't feel locked to a single faction but exists seemingly independently and its members feel like actual humans with their own opinions and ambitions.

This is well said. Additionally, the clan is indistinguishable from a single NPC since the clan leader own the fiefs, not separate NPCs within the clan and the clans are a hivemind, who just do whatever the leader says. I don't see any sort of Intra-clan features.

 

[MauledByABeer]

I think it's fine for what it is. As with many of the systems in Bannerlord, I would prefer a little more depth but suspect TW have their reasons for making things as they have. There's a lot of overlap between Mount and Blade fans and Crusader Kings fans and I think a lot of us were hoping that Bannerlord would be more of a hybrid of the two. That said, not everyone is into CK2 and Mount and Blade has always been a fairly accessible series. I think from a design perspective there's a bit of a balancing act being done to create systems that allude to a more dynastic focus where families and court politics feel important without complicating the gameplay with Paradox level complexity. That's not necessarily an easy balance to find. Just look at all of the different iterations of Total War games over the years and how they've struggled to make families and court politics seem meaningful and interesting without complicating them and stealing focus from the actual warfare. While my personal preference would be more complicated systems, I think Tale Worlds have done an adequate job of taking steps in the direction of gameplay that brings an element of feudal dynasties while keeping things simple enough that the game is still focused on battles and accessible to players who just want to build an army and drink from skulls. There's more I think TW can do to make clans more interesting of course, but I'm ok with the system in general and hopeful that there will be mods to bring the level of depth many of us are looking for.

 

[StewVader]

I think it's fine for what it is. As with many of the systems in Bannerlord, I would prefer a little more depth but suspect TW have their reasons for making things as they have. There's a lot of overlap between Mount and Blade fans and Crusader Kings fans and I think a lot of us were hoping that Bannerlord would be more of a hybrid of the two. That said, not everyone is into CK2 and Mount and Blade has always been a fairly accessible series. I think from a design perspective there's a bit of a balancing act being done to create systems that allude to a more dynastic focus where families and court politics feel important without complicating the gameplay with Paradox level complexity. That's not necessarily an easy balance to find. Just look at all of the different iterations of Total War games over the years and how they've struggled to make families and court politics seem meaningful and interesting without complicating them and stealing focus from the actual warfare. While my personal preference would be more complicated systems, I think Tale Worlds have done an adequate job of taking steps in the direction of gameplay that brings an element of feudal dynasties while keeping things simple enough that the game is still focused on battles and accessible to players who just want to build an army and drink from skulls. There's more I think TW can do to make clans more interesting of course, but I'm ok with the system in general and hopeful that there will be mods to bring the level of depth many of us are looking for.

Its not really a system though. The Clan is indistinguishable from a single NPC entity (clans own fiefs, clan leaders make all decisions). There is currently no intra-clan mechanics, or arguably any well designed inter-clan mechanics either (like subverting one clan's relation with another).

There is no clan system, its just a bunch of NPCs lumped into 1 NPC entity.

 

[NLCRich]

I think the clans would be okay, but there are a couple things they are missing.

- A way to build relationship between clan members and with companions.
- A reason to build relationship between clan members and with companions.

Edit: What I mean is that it could benefit from some sort of system that increases the effectiveness of those within the clan, based on player interactions. There is just not much going on there. It makes it seem kind of bland. Other than that I don't really have any problems with it as a mid-way between lords and kingdoms. Also guarantees your family and companions some sort of status within the kingdom as a member of a clan.