Do you want more complex features, such as proper formation behaviour in Bannerlord?

Do you want more complex features in Bannerlord?


  • Total voters
    186

Users who are viewing this thread

John_M

Subforum Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I think you're reading too much into it. There are half a dozen poll threads like this with a loaded question which amounts to "do you want the game to be better or worse?". It's just circlejerking and confirmation bias, I don't think even the people making the polls intend for them to be taken that seriously.
Perhaps, but it's been posted on multiple platforms as a serious motion, so just adding my pickle to the jar.
 

Honved

Knight
There's a difference between something being "complex" under the hood, yet appearing simple because it produces realistic or intuitive results, versus something that feels "complicated" because it requires learning something that doesn't logically make much sense or requires a lot more player input to achieve the same effect. Sometimes "complexity" can make a product easier to understand and use.

Having troops maintain formation on the slow advance, and then have the formations gradually disintegrate as they charge, reflects real constraints, feels natural, and doesn't require a lot more of a learning curve if done right. It doesn't necessarily make it more "complicated".
 

Danny5

Sergeant
Bannerlord should start from warband's base game, and build from there, by changing / improving existing features and then adding new features, but didn't really happened.
 
XD What documents you checking mate?

I'm here rocking thucydides as my primary. Who you got?

Almost every classical historian alive will tell you the greeks fought in semi coherent mobs. The spartans were slightly (and I mean slightly) more organized using music to keep an even pace, which other classical greeks did not do, so when they advanced there was no way for them to tell how to keep pace, meaning parts of the line would bulge. Then they would charge without much consideration of formation, opening all sorts of gaps in their lines, but hoping the shock would carry the day (if it did not, then you get some seriously bloody battles as mobs of hoplites mush together in a rough line and murder each other relatively slowly)

Coherent ranks and files is attested in the hellenic period, which is after the classical period. And after hoplites (as defined as a guy carrying a hoplon, you know, that big ol' shield) when greek armies were mostly using pikes. We don't have a lot of great sources for the classical powerhouses of athens and sparta militarily at this time (and neither power was actually important in the period. Sparta tried twice to rebuild its wider empire and macedon trivially trounced them both times), and the dominant city state of Thebes were burned to the ground by alexander and so we have very little for them too, but we DO have good sources of the macedonians, and how easily they folded the existing city state and ethnos militaries into their own phalangite system.

no sale troll :grin:
 

CrazyElf

Veteran
This is already done in RBM, we had to tell the main formation to focus closest infantry formation (melee or ranged) if it exists and they stopped turning towards random cavalry (few nearby troops will ofcourse turn once cav is extremely close). I will do "few" videos in following days to show all RBM features, so people know what to expect when they download the mod.

I think that it may be worth doing a "summary" video at the end as well.

To summarize a list of all the changes that you feel need to be implemented. From there it will be a matter of also reaching out to major Youtubers.


It is night and day, yes. I seriously cannot go back to the game without the combat mod, it's insane. I agree if they aren't going to aim for it themselves, they need to at least get into talks to get it implemented into the game officially.


Yes - the issue here is that the baseline game I think should have a certain level of AI competence, for lack of a better term, that uses formations effectively.

Mods can build on this in the future, but in the base game, I firmly feel that there needs to be some degree of effective formation use.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
To summarize a list of all the changes that you feel need to be implemented. From there it will be a matter of also reaching out to major Youtubers.
Hopefully all the issues with cav and horse archers acting strangely are sorted out before then though. I checked out the latest iteration of RBM and the issues with cav/HA remained present. :ohdear: It won't do much good to get a showcase by a major league YouTuber but everyone sees a fat stack of cav all collectively clump into the map edge and sit there, immobile.
 
........


Yes - the issue here is that the baseline game I think should have a certain level of AI competence, for lack of a better term, that uses formations effectively.

Mods can build on this in the future, but in the base game, I firmly feel that there needs to be some degree of effective formation use.

Yes ! and what sort of AI do you need for formation fighting ?? Soldier in Rank 2 stays behind soldier in front of him, Soldier 3 stays behind soldier 2 etc etc .. How difficult can that be to code?

We'll need this for any Piked phalanx .

Apologies if my arguments are totally off topic, my eyes aren't working well today :grin:

.
 
Hopefully all the issues with cav and horse archers acting strangely are sorted out before then though. I checked out the latest iteration of RBM and the issues with cav/HA remained present. :ohdear: It won't do much good to get a showcase by a major league YouTuber but everyone sees a fat stack of cav all collectively clump into the map edge and sit there, immobile.
Do you mean mod version for BL 1.6.3? Because TW totally broke ranged AI in 1.6.3 even in vanilla.
 
Hopefully all the issues with cav and horse archers acting strangely are sorted out before then though. I checked out the latest iteration of RBM and the issues with cav/HA remained present. :ohdear: It won't do much good to get a showcase by a major league YouTuber but everyone sees a fat stack of cav all collectively clump into the map edge and sit there, immobile.
Thats not an issue, they will flank the main formation when armies clash, if there is enemy cav to counter them they will fight them instead. Its semi scripted way of implementing hammer and anvil.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Do you mean mod version for BL 1.6.3? Because TW totally broke ranged AI in 1.6.3 even in vanilla.
Yeah, the latest version as of three or four days ago on Nexus, playing on 1.6.3. The infantry works perfectly, cav sometimes has a weird behavior where they hang out on the flanks until a few die then fall back and repeat or gets stuck on map edges, while HAs perform like garbage moving in a giant glued-together clump that hits the map edge and stops.

I didn't look closely at archers.
 
Yeah, the latest version as of three or four days ago on Nexus, playing on 1.6.3. The infantry works perfectly, cav sometimes has a weird behavior where they hang out on the flanks until a few die then fall back and repeat or gets stuck on map edges, while HAs perform like garbage moving in a giant glued-together clump that hits the map edge and stops.

I didn't look closely at archers.
HA are most hurt by the bug. Wait are you camping border of the map to cheese the AI you little cheater? :grin:
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
HA are most hurt by the bug. Wait are you camping border of the map to cheese the AI you little cheater? :grin:
Haha.

No, I was testing to see if the AI's issues with randomly diving into melee were fixed so they were my horse archers. The enemy wasn't really camping the map edge either, the HAs just kinda ran into it and stayed stuck there. I have a video of it.
 
Haha.

No, I was testing to see if the AI's issues with randomly diving into melee were fixed so they were my horse archers. The enemy wasn't really camping the map edge either, the HAs just kinda ran into it and stayed stuck there. I have a video of it.
Bannerlord AI understands only 2 things at the moment (and this is on deep level which we mostly cannot access) center of formation (and its general properties like its width) and individual soldier (and its intentionally one soldier in singular) and the AI can focus only on one of these things at the time. So the moment formation becomes loose, reinforcements arrive and formations start to reform (and their center is few hundred metres of), etc the AI may start doing funky things. On the other hand if AI understood that there is mass of soldiers in front of it it might tank performance, or maybe it would not (and this is considered complex BTW, hence the name of thread).
 

neemerz

Recruit
In the >300 hours I've played this game, I've almost exclusively played with RBM. It's features as an essential part of the Bannerlord experience in my opinion
 

Gandamula

Sergeant at Arms
The units should have a space radious, no unit should occupies other units space, the clash of infantry formation allways end in
blobs. I don't know if the AI and the game engine don't allow it, but the clash of two infantry groups should be similar to TW games, engaging the first line then replacing the dead soldiers by others.
 

Madeloc

Recruit
Thats not an issue, they will flank the main formation when armies clash, if there is enemy cav to counter them they will fight them instead. Its semi scripted way of implementing hammer and anvil.
I'm currently reading your mod's description on Nexus, and will try it. It looks like you're trying to help the devs fixing the game, it's cool.
Cause after several hundreds (even above thousand) hours of playing I'm clearly deceived by the battles (and unconsitant forest maps).

+ lately looks like the AI never attack and will settle for cowardly-mediocre turtling. At last, I attacked an army like I was 300 vs 580, and still they were not attacking. And I checked their units, they were not (the IA) having like 200 recruits, which could be a matter justifying the non-attacking behaviour.
 
Top Bottom