Do you want more complex features, such as proper formation behaviour in Bannerlord?

Do you want more complex features in Bannerlord?


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Title says it all, do you want more complex features such as but not limited to proper formation battles?

In this thread I am providing comparison between vanilla game, vanilla game with Realistic Battle AI module only and Realistic Battle AI + Combat module. This does not mean I am suggesting that RBM should be integrated into vanilla game in 1 to 1 ratio, I am simply providing example of how more complex features could look like.

Vanilla behaviour:

Commentary to video:
https://vocaroo.com/1hoXfhIzQi9H
As you probably can see, the battles are extremely fast and formations during battle move in unnaturally coordinated manner. Soldiers are esentially pushing their friends into death, it all looks very unnatural and suicidal.

Vanilla + AI module:

Commentary to video:
https://vocaroo.com/1gNERsNuPE7e
Even the AI module alone significantly prolongs formation combat. This is because soldiers in formations are no longer pushing at each other, instead they wait when there is no place to go in fornt of them (like normal people that dont want to murder their friends by pushing them into enemy blades) and addtionally they are more defensive. Essentially they muster their courage, step out of the formation, go poke once or twice and retreat back into safety, we think this is more believable behaviour for people that want to survive in the first place. Also you can notice that when legionaries fight they dare to poke each other much more because they are more powerfull. However when legionaries face army of looters they backpedal to avoid being overwhelmed.

Full RBM mod (combat rebalance + AI changes)

Commentary to video:
https://vocaroo.com/1oV0jVZqqKS8
Combat clearly takes longer then in previous cases and gear and skill of units actually means something. Formation behaviour is similiar to previous video with the exception of javelin throwing that actually happens now. Also due to more protective nature of armor with combat module the battle takes even longer.

Another example of complex feature: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/ambush-and-camp-mechanic-with-demo.446691/

Another complex feature that many people demanded in the past, more control over your troop formations represented as playable mod here: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/355

Improved custom battle that would have memory of your last choice, more customization of your formations, ability to test units without interference of player or enemy AI lord, etc. Again already accomplished in the form of mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/2, download version that works in 1.6.2 and 1.6.3 here.

I also believe that many people would enjoy more complex diplomacy: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/832?tab=files

And obviously more factions, settlements in more sensical positions and many fatures such as travelling by sea: done here https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/1389 and here https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/2828
 
Last edited:

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
giphy.gif

Hell ****ing YES!
I don't think I need to add anything more to what we have already commented on this subject...
 

MadVader

Duke
M&BWB
Let all who love Mount and Blade raise their hands by giving their vote for the cause of better gameplay.
In all likelihood the RBM guys need a show of support, after their talks with TW on adopting some mod features mysteriously stopped being mentioned a month ago.

61+UcrcIX0L._AC_SX425_.jpg
 

Eärendil Ardamírë

Subforum Moderator
WBWF&SM&B
A bit missleading title, given that you only elaborate on your own RBM mod. As far as I can see here now you basically want that they include your mod into the game or is there more behind it which you forgot to mention in your opening post?
 

danEN

Banned
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Vanilla + AI module:

Commentary to video:
https://vocaroo.com/1gNERsNuPE7e
Even the AI module alone significantly prolongs formation combat.

Full RBM mod (combat rebalance + AI changes)

Commentary to video:
https://vocaroo.com/1oV0jVZqqKS8
Combat clearly takes longer then in previous cases and gear and skill of units actually means something.
I haven't touched Wabberlord in a long while to play the mod but this is ****ing sexy, amazing work brother

61+UcrcIX0L._AC_SX425_.jpg
https://store.steampowered.com/app/469820/Genital_Jousting/
 
A bit missleading title, given that you only elaborate on your own RBM mod. As far as I can see here now you basically want that they include your mod into the game or is there more behind it which you forgot to mention in your opening post?
I am using an example of what complex features migh look like. I could suggest ton of other things but it would be a wall of text and no one would read it so I decided to do videos. But for example I could link that post about ambush feature now that I think about it. The problem is that not many mods do "complex" stuff in combat at the moment, most complex mods are campaign oriented and I am no expert at campaign modding therefore I cant really evaluate properly what is complex in this regard.
 

Nhod

Recruit
HELLS YES!

Playing without Realistic battle mod feels like you're playing a game that should be called " Dumb AI armies fighting" Now i actually have line battles that last for a long time and flanking is a good tactic. Archers running out of arrows because of shield walls, you having to position your troops for best effect. I'm basically in love with the mod!
 

NPC99

Baron
M&BWBWF&SVC
Yes. Totally on board with this and hope it can be accommodated within TW's tight minimum pc spec and console port. Just as players can choose different levels of difficulty, maybe there should be optional levels of complexity, allowing players to grow into the game.

Let all who love Mount and Blade raise their hands by giving their vote for the cause of better gameplay.
In all likelihood the RBM guys need a show of support, after their talks with TW on adopting some mod features mysteriously stopped being mentioned a month ago.

Very sad if such constructive discussions have reached an impasse. TW should be in no doubt that players want this.
 
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vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Absolutely yes, bannerlord is a strange mix of overly complex features in the background on some areas where the player has no agency and over simplification in everything else that the player should have direct impact over.

The strongest points of the game for me are the graphics and battles and even the later is extremely disappointing, you go expecting tactical maneuvers and formations and get a moshpit of soldiers clad in toiled paper while wielding lightsabers with an AI that can only fight well in 1x1 scenarios but as soon as larger numbers get in the picture they simply dont know how to coordinate and use teamwork.

Thankfully we have RBM which is an absolutely must-have for me to improve this area but the rest of the game is still there lacking any meaningful and indepth feature with player agency and i don't need to say anything abou the total non-existent diplomacy..
 
Realistic battles seems better, more realistic to medieval mob fighting ... but it's not formation fighting.

We need both, realistic mob fighting and realistic formation fighting, depending on unit training. For example, Greek hoplites would only fight in a phalanx where as their opponents gaulish warriors would only fight in mob.

.
 

Ted Striker

Veteran
That mod is looking better and better. I'm gonna have to install it.

What I'd really like to see (and is probably totally impossible) is for each tier to behave different in battle and even for individual troop types to behave different. I wouldn't expect tier 1 recruits to be disciplined like tier 5-6, nor would I expect Battanian falxmen shock troop to maintain a tight formation like Imperial Legionaries. Vlandian pikemen should have a different formation than both too, very tight with the whole unit advancing together.

I know it's too much to expect in a game like this, but a man can dream.
 

Kanabei

Sergeant
Hell Yes. Even Vanilla + AI module from RBM would be a great improvement. Adding a slightly reworked armor would be perfect. The thing is, I think TW is afraid that battles would be prolonged too much, making campaign very outspread in time. Reaching endgame would be only for people that are willing to play for hundreds of hours. I know There are players like that (me being one), but TW is trying to reach broader audience.

Still, I think some parts of RBM or ambushes proposed recently by Bloc would be a great additions. It's just a matter of tweaking final campaign duration.
 
Do they have to make features more complex? Not necessarily, making something complex doesn't always make it better.

Looking at the formation videos, one is not more complex than the other, at least not from what the player interaction with it would be, but the second one is definitely more polished. If I didn't know it was made by two different groups of people I would look at the first video and say "oh this is a proof of concept/sketch to demonstrate what the feature might look like" and the second one is the polished version after you had time to go over and give it some love.

Do they have to polish features before delivering them and go over some the features we have now? Absolutely, right now it feels like they have this list of things the game has to have and then they put in the minimal amount of effort just to cross it off and move on to the next item.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Title says it all, do you want more complex features such as but not limited to proper formation battles?
I respect what you're trying to do here but you're probably better off getting one of the big name BL content creators to do a deep dive on this.

TW is a lot more likely to address issues that cross a bunch of eyeballs on YouTube than the forum.
 
I don't think RBM adds complexity, it's just a clear objective improvement over vanilla and makes formations like shield wall actually useful. It makes the AI act in a way you'd expect them to, instead of silly blobs being smushed together

Realistic battles seems better, more realistic to medieval mob fighting ... but it's not formation fighting.

We need both, realistic mob fighting and realistic formation fighting, depending on unit training. For example, Greek hoplites would only fight in a phalanx where as their opponents gaulish warriors would only fight in mob.
RBM makes formation improvements, like shield wall. I'm surprised Philozoraptor didn't show a video of vanilla shield wall vs RBM shield wall, it's so much better. But still, I agree with the sentiment that troop formation fighting needs to be improved. RBM takes a step in that direction, but I'm not sure how much freedom modders have to improve things without TW making bigger changes on their side first.
 
Title says it all, do you want more complex features such as but not limited to proper formation battles?

In this thread I am providing comparison between vanilla game, vanilla game with Realistic Battle AI module only and Realistic Battle AI + Combat module. This does not mean I am suggesting that RBM should be integrated into vanilla game in 1 to 1 ratio, I am simply providing example of how more complex features could look like.

Vanilla behaviour:

Commentary to video:
https://vocaroo.com/1hoXfhIzQi9H
As you probably can see, the battles are extremely fast and formations during battle move in unnaturally coordinated manner. Soldiers are esentially pushing their friends into death, it all looks very unnatural and suicidal.

Vanilla + AI module:

Commentary to video:
https://vocaroo.com/1gNERsNuPE7e
Even the AI module alone significantly prolongs formation combat. This is because soldiers in formations are no longer pushing at each other, instead they wait when there is no place to go in fornt of them (like normal people that dont want to murder their friends by pushing them into enemy blades) and addtionally they are more defensive. Essentially they muster their courage, step out of the formation, go poke once or twice and retreat back into safety, we think this is more believable behaviour for people that want to survive in the first place. Also you can notice that when legionaries fight they dare to poke each other much more because they are more powerfull. However when legionaries face army of looters they backpedal to avoid being overwhelmed.

Full RBM mod (combat rebalance + AI changes)

Commentary to video:
https://vocaroo.com/1oV0jVZqqKS8
Combat clearly takes longer then in previous cases and gear and skill of units actually means something. Formation behaviour is similiar to previous video with the exception of javelin throwing that actually happens now. Also due to more protective nature of armor with combat module the battle takes even longer.

Another example of complex feature: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/ambush-and-camp-mechanic-with-demo.446691/

Another complex feature that many people demanded in the past, more control over your troop formations represented as playable mod here: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/355

Improved custom battle that would have memory of your last choice, more customization of your formations, ability to test units without interference of player or enemy AI lord, etc. Again already accomplished in the form of mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/2, download version that works in 1.6.2 and 1.6.3 here.

I also believe that many people would enjoy more complex diplomacy: https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/832?tab=files

And obviously more factions, settlements in more sensical positions and many fatures such as travelling by sea: done here https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/1389 and here https://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade2bannerlord/mods/2828
This is what we want taleworlds, take note!
 

Aurex

Veteran
WB
Title says it all, do you want more complex features such as but not limited to proper formation battles?
Ohyes Picard GIF - Ohyes Yes Picard - Discover & Share GIFs

Jokes aside, yes please. This game DESPERATELY needs some engaging and well-thought out mechanics. Some life. Right now it's just a relatively pretty game with absolutely nothing to offer aside from mediocre battles.
 

Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
I don't think a poll on the forum about more complex features will change TW's mind. They know full well that we wish to have those. They also know that we are a tiny fraction of the playerbase, and a particularly zealous one at that. And it is very clear that we are not the part of the market they're trying to sell BL to. Also, I would be shocked if the result of the poll was anything else but overwhelming support.
 
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