Do you think that Bannerlord will come out of early access in seven months?

[babelfisch]

Ahh, I misread it. Still thats a relatively small team when compared to many modern games, and even most Indie games with Tiny teams are pixel side scroller, or things that aren't as resource intensive. As much fun as Stardew Valley, Rimworld, and FTL are, they aren't remotely as detailed or engine intensive.

Thanks for the correction!





And you understand the worst thing a company can do, is rapid, exponential growth, with out any kind of proper stability to back it.
Plenty of companies have gone belly up, after expanding tremendously after a small pay day (And yes, Millions is small when you consider paying 80+ Salaried staff annually).

Telltall games did this, and despite having massive success, they went bankrupt and ruined themselves.
EA Has wasted tons of money on failed games, Hell, The last of Us two, which should have been bullet proof off the back of the first one, was so bad that the company lost money producing the game.

The worst thing one can do when they come into money, is invest poorly and over spend.

I can almost guarantee you have zero idea how to actually run a business, and that's not an insult to you, as 80% of businesses will close within the first four years due to bankruptcy. It's one thing to get something to work on paper, it's another entirely logistically to deal with it in reality.

We also have zero ideas what their books look like. They spent 8 years on this project with zero income except the money they had from Warband and subsequent expansions. They literally could have been running negative money for years, for all we know or out of pocket expenses from the CEOs personal investment etc.

That's way too reasonable for a forum.

 

[sniparsexe]

Since Callum said we are going to add everything you see on the Steam page, no. My estimation is 2022 Spring or later

Someone posted the Staff numbers, and only about 8/70 staff are actually programmers. The rest are Admin, Art Design, and other "fluff" positions like community manager.

I think when people hear "Taleworlds has 70 employees!" they think that its a decently sized company with many programmers. I was shocked to find they have less than 10 (12 at most) which explains why the coding itself can be slow. Not to mention the fact they stopped at some point to build a new engine, then had to redevelop everything for said engine.

I think people need to reign in their expectations a bit, to more realistic goals. This is not a company like rockstar that has 100+ Programmers, and can just hire on 100+ more for a couple crunch months.

I'm not at all saying the game shouldn't improve or anything of the sort, just that perhaps people aren't fully aware of the actual team logistics. I certainly wasn't.

I think it was like, 20-25 programmers. BUT. We should mention this, as Armagan said. There isn't enough know-how in Turkey, therefore most of their workers are/was inexperienced.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

The description on the Steam page is so vague, I honestly don't know what Taleworlds goal for the full release is.

 

[MostBlunted]

Ahh, I misread it. Still thats a relatively small team when compared to many modern games, and even most Indie games with Tiny teams are pixel side scroller, or things that aren't as resource intensive. As much fun as Stardew Valley, Rimworld, and FTL are, they aren't remotely as detailed or engine intensive.

Lol!

Also Rimworld wasn´t 49,99€....

Rimworld has more depth than Bannerlord will ever have, what it doesnt have are shiny graphics.

And Rimworld had ONE dev when it started...there is a lot of stuff calculated in Rimworld....more than in Bannerlord I guess (outside of battles). And that´s the only thing Bannerlord has...1000 man battlers. Still not balanced of course. 300 archers will beat 1000 inf every time....

 

[froggyluv]

Lol!

Also Rimworld wasn´t 49,99€....

Rimworld has more depth than Bannerlord will ever have, what it doesnt have are shiny graphics.

And Rimworld had ONE dev when it started...there is a lot of stuff calculated in Rimworld....more than in Bannerlord I guess (outside of battles). And that´s the only thing Bannerlord has...1000 man battlers. Still not balanced of course. 300 archers will beat 1000 inf every time....

1000's of man melee battles where every strike, block, swing from horseback (expected to land) and arrow is being accounted for in real time physics is utterly without peer -nothing even close. Trying to minimize that as trivial is utterly foolish.

 

[Androme1]

On the Steam page TaleWorlds says that early access will last about a year. Five months have already passed.
Is is realistic that Bannerlord gets its full release in seven months?

It is unrealistic to expect Bannerlord to ever find itself in a place that could reasonably be stated to be "finished". It may very well be called "finished", but that doesn't mean it will actually be finished.

 

[CptGoofy]

I really doubt it if they keep going at this pace but hey for all we know they could start dropping fat updates. I doubt it but hey a man can dream

 

[Bob Gnarly]

1000's of man melee battles where every strike, block, swing from horseback (expected to land) and arrow is being accounted for in real time physics is utterly without peer -nothing even close. Trying to minimize that as trivial is utterly foolish.

Are you telling me that these whiny armchair developers are wrong and have no clue about game development?

 

[musashii89]

Are you telling me that these whiny armchair developers are wrong and have no clue about game development?

Funny how the ones calling others trolls usually have the least to say.

 

[stevehoos]

Are you telling me that these whiny armchair developers are wrong and have no clue about game development?

There are a few modders/devs in here who have more experience developing games than these devs for TW.

 

[musashii89]

And you understand the worst thing a company can do, is rapid, exponential growth, with out any kind of proper stability to back it.
Plenty of companies have gone belly up, after expanding tremendously after a small pay day (And yes, Millions is small when you consider paying 80+ Salaried staff annually).

Telltall games did this, and despite having massive success, they went bankrupt and ruined themselves.
EA Has wasted tons of money on failed games, Hell, The last of Us two, which should have been bullet proof off the back of the first one, was so bad that the company lost money producing the game.

The worst thing one can do when they come into money, is invest poorly and over spend.

I can almost guarantee you have zero idea how to actually run a business, and that's not an insult to you, as 80% of businesses will close within the first four years due to bankruptcy. It's one thing to get something to work on paper, it's another entirely logistically to deal with it in reality.

We also have zero ideas what their books look like. They spent 8 years on this project with zero income except the money they had from Warband and subsequent expansions. They literally could have been running negative money for years, for all we know or out of pocket expenses from the CEOs personal investment etc.

Tedious....Yes exponential growth is stupid, no growth is MUCH more so. That is the common definition of EA, to secure early funding for further expansion.

Plenty of companies do go belly up from this, plenty of companies also kick off their dev shoes and simply continue to add aesthetics much to the chagrin of most non tween fans.

The second worst thing you can do with money is be a miser after some success. They are being pennywise and dollarstupid.

Yerp, not wrong, but sounds like you have an inflated view of your own knowledge (Dunning Kruger effect no doubt). They just got a ****load of new fans (like me) and now were seeing all their hype about previous titles lessons learnt are empty promises. Your correct, its one thing to look at dollar figures and make assumptions, but intangibles like their reputation cannot be bought back.

Yes, and if they hold onto that money in the hope this game spontaneously becomes fleshed out they will hemorrhage it over time again. They sold at LEAST 250k copies. If they dont build of this success then they deserve to go bankrupt so someone competent can takeover.

 

[froggyluv]

Are you telling me that these whiny armchair developers are wrong and have no clue about game development?

Thats me tellin ya dread

 

[NLCRich]

Lol!

Also Rimworld wasn´t 49,99€....

Rimworld has more depth than Bannerlord will ever have, what it doesnt have are shiny graphics.

And Rimworld had ONE dev when it started...there is a lot of stuff calculated in Rimworld....more than in Bannerlord I guess (outside of battles). And that´s the only thing Bannerlord has...1000 man battlers. Still not balanced of course. 300 archers will beat 1000 inf every time....

Games like Rimworld and Stardew Valley can have depth programmed in mechanics and the like, but it is much easier to do so in that type of game. Working out the collisions in 3d alone is more code than the entirety of code needed to program those games working off sprites. Also, it is far more difficult to balance this type of game. Each piece of equipment has to function and balance properly in these battles in terms of length, strength, speed etc. all coming in to play, and then in the world in terms of value, availability, how much is produced. These other games really just need to worry about attack and defense, and when an item is made available to the player (often through story).

Rimworld and Stardew Valley have a lot of depth that is really just adding a couple lines of code to make this happen, and they are able to add it without it needing to balance with so many other mechanics. The entire world economy isn't being simulated, just your own pockets. So, while I agree that they feel like they have more depth than BL (Stardew Valley is one of my all time favorites btw), the amount of effort required to include that depth is much different. Also, it is not fair to compare an unfinished game to entirely completed games that aren't even in the same genre.

But at least, they value our feedback .

They don´t...they don´t even read their own forum.

This statement is just completely and entirely false. You have said @mexxico and @Duh_TaleWorlds are the only ones who read the forum. Oh but wait @Signalize just responded to a thread here about development priorities. So it is just mexxico, duh, Signalize. Oh but wait, @MArdA TaleWorlds is making responses all over the patch notes and encouraging people to post in technical, and is also reviewing the suggestions forum and forwarding suggestions to QA. ok, so it is just mexxico, duh, signalize, and Marda right? But no. You have @AVRC @azakhi in MP as well. Then in technical you have community support and QA people looking at every thread: @elysebluemoon , @uçanbiblo , Marda, and even others posting there from time to time. If you hover over any of these tags, you will see most are actively reading the forum or have just looked at it. At least one is probably browsing player feedback at this very moment. And there are more than just this, these are only the ones I have seen with brief takes and not diving into many subforums, or other language forums. How many staff do you think TW should have just looking at the forums? What, does @armagan need to come and talk to you himself before you are satisfied?

 

[stevehoos]

Games like Rimworld and Stardew Valley can have depth programmed in mechanics and the like, but it is much easier to do so in that type of game. Working out the collisions in 3d alone is more code than the entirety of code needed to program those games working off sprites. Also, it is far more difficult to balance this type of game. Each piece of equipment has to function and balance properly in these battles in terms of length, strength, speed etc. all coming in to play, and then in the world in terms of value, availability, how much is produced. These other games really just need to worry about attack and defense, and when an item is made available to the player (often through story).

Rimworld and Stardew Valley have a lot of depth that is really just adding a couple lines of code to make this happen, and they are able to add it without it needing to balance with so many other mechanics. The entire world economy isn't being simulated, just your own pockets. So, while I agree that they feel like they have more depth than BL (Stardew Valley is one of my all time favorites btw), the amount of effort required to include that depth is much different. Also, it is not fair to compare an unfinished game to entirely completed games that aren't even in the same genre.



This statement is just completely and entirely false. You have said @mexxico and @Duh_TaleWorlds are the only ones who read the forum. Oh but wait @Signalize just responded to a thread here about development priorities. So it is just mexxico, duh, Signalize. Oh but wait, @MArdA TaleWorlds is making responses all over the patch notes and encouraging people to post in technical, and is also reviewing the suggestions forum and forwarding suggestions to QA. ok, so it is just mexxico, duh, signalize, and Marda right? But no. You have @AVRC @azakhi in MP as well. Then in technical you have community support and QA people looking at every thread: @elysebluemoon , @uçanbiblo , Marda, and even others posting there from time to time. If you hover over any of these tags, you will see most are actively reading the forum or have just looked at it. At least one is probably browsing player feedback at this very moment. And there are more than just this, these are only the ones I have seen with brief takes and not diving into many subforums, or other language forums. How many staff do you think TW should have just looking at the forums? What, does @armagan need to come and talk to you himself before you are satisfied?

Uh.... that's 3 developers in the single player. Community support are not developers.

 

[babelfisch]

Uh.... that's 3 developers in the single player. Community support are not developers.

But it's their job to gather the feedback we post on the forums and give it to the devs. If the entire dev team needs to read each and every post on the forums there wouldn't be any time to develop the game. Unless you are as crazy as mexxico and spend your entire life in the office...