Do you think smithing skill should be removed?

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MostBlunted

Sergeant Knight
It makes zero sense spending time and effort on a core game mechanic that people just ignore. It's just bad game design and shows TW lack of experience.
I hope they focus on balancing stuff and improving the AI after they´ve added all features from their last blog.
 
It's an unspectacular feature of no worth that makes you wonder why it was approved in the first place. Although first hearing of it I thought they were planning to add ways to live the civilian life - smithing as a blacksmith, maybe farming as a farmer, herding sheep, becoming a diplomat, minister, enterprising etc. which would be fantastic, but obviously that's not the road they went down.
The conclusion remains that it is for whatever reason here, and since it's not disruptive (mostly) for those who rightly don't want to make use of it, I don't see the point in removing it. I usually cheat and pretend the weapon is a family legacy or whatever the story calls for, since it makes as much sense for a warlord approaching middle age to decide to become a blacksmith as Mount and Blade having a main story...no wait. Oh well, at least they're not trying wasting developer time "patching" and "balancing " an unamendable mistake that shouldn't have existed to begin with... now wait a second.
TW should have the courage to say "ok this doesn't work"
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Maelstrom8

Sergeant
WBWF&SNW
I get there's probably 4 pages of people have a really good view on Smithing and How It Could Be Better etc. I respect them - but honestly I'm just gonna be the guy to say I think it's fine. I personally like it. Would I like it to be expanded on and or reworked? I'm open for that, sure. I'm open to them doing it Witcher style, but again, I don't have an issue with it currently.
 

FizCap

Regular
WB
It's an optional mechanic, why should it be removed? If it's an easily exploitable feature then the player should control their urge to not print millions of coins abusing the mechanic, simple.
 

Y_D_A_7

Recruit
It's an optional mechanic, why should it be removed? If it's an easily exploitable feature then the player should control their urge to not print millions of coins abusing the mechanic, simple
An optional mechanic that takes one entire slot in the skill tree.

And yes ofc it's the player responsability to use the mechanic properly otherwise the game breaks. Ofc
 

TheBerserk

Sergeant
I'm stunned by what some people are saying in this topic, would you agree to remove a feature rather than think it deserves to be improved ?
We already have so few solo features and you would like to reduce the experience of the game ?
Even if forging deserves to be reworked, it remains interesting for the fact of leaving a fun freedom to the player, and you quickly forget that this feature can be used greatly for modding.
If we were to remove all the unpopular features of the game in this case would have to remove the multiplayer logically according to you 👌
 
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black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
I'm stunned by what some people are saying in this topic, would you agree to remove a feature rather than think it deserves to be improved ?
We already have so few solo features and you would like to reduce the experience of the game ?
Even if forging deserves to be reworked, it remains interesting for the fact of leaving a fun freedom to the player, and you quickly forget that this feature can be used greatly for modding.
If we were to remove all the unpopular features of the game in this case would have to remove the multiplayer logically according to you 👌
At this point it would require too much effort to remove smithing. But it shouldn't be in the game in it's current form. It's highly exploitable, it's unimmersive, it's mmo levels of grinding and it's poorly thought up and implemented. What I see happening is TW goes back and does some minor tweaks to crafted item prices and calls it a day. If TW would've made it so you could've had a playstyle where you're a commoner and one of the types of jobs you could do is smithing it would've made more sense. Honestly what they should've done is what they actually proposed during development, that you can go to a blacksmith and custom order a weapon. But no they can't get rid of it without a huge undertaking because of the perk system and anyone who can't see that is being unrealistic. Sadly we'll have to live with this bad game mechanic because it's a core to the game.
 

TheBerserk

Sergeant
At this point it would require too much effort to remove smithing. But it shouldn't be in the game in it's current form. It's highly exploitable, it's unimmersive, it's mmo levels of grinding and it's poorly thought up and implemented. What I see happening is TW goes back and does some minor tweaks to crafted item prices and calls it a day. If TW would've made it so you could've had a playstyle where you're a commoner and one of the types of jobs you could do is smithing it would've made more sense. Honestly what they should've done is what they actually proposed during development, that you can go to a blacksmith and custom order a weapon. But no they can't get rid of it without a huge undertaking because of the perk system and anyone who can't see that is being unrealistic. Sadly we'll have to live with this bad game mechanic because it's a core to the game.

I agree that the forge is an unfinished feature in a certain sense and yes it is not the only one but removing it would be pointless in addition to costing too much effort as you say so I don't understand the idea.
The forge is not harmfull to the gameplay of the game, as you can do without a lot of things in the game to move forward and evolve and having custom weapons at this scale does not change anything in a game in terms of balancing war. ( Even if I want to say who cares a little about the balancing of the solo game if not on the snowball of Factions )
It's just an addition for the RPG side of the game and those who enjoy customization.
 
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Nodice83

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
No. Should be reworked. It is not that far from something that may actually work (didn't say ideal). IMHO.

To elaborate on that.

1. It should never be possible to complete your own request - especially when you are 275 LVL smith asking yourself to do some ****ty tier 1 hatchet (sic).

Other ideas:

2. To make it more immerse - some weapons should be only available to make in e.g. "co-op" with some skilled companions.
3. Pregnant women smithin' some crazy stuff like there is no tomorrow, should not be allowed.
4. Penalties to the health when things aren't going smoothly...
5. Some things should not work together no matter your skillset. Like giant pommel on a tiny dagger... Penalties to use should be included.
6. Maybe a minigame/arcade element of precision should be included to place things together. So only truly talented players can become masters of the trade.

I bet there are much better ideas that simply await implementation...
 
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black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
I agree that the forge is an unfinished feature in a certain sense and yes it is not the only one but removing it would be pointless in addition to costing too much effort as you say so I don't understand the idea.
The forge is not harmfull to the gameplay of the game, as you can do without a lot of things in the game to move forward and evolve and having custom weapons at this scale does not change anything in a game in terms of balancing war. ( Even if I want to say who cares a little about the balancing of the solo game if not on the snowball of Factions )
It's just an addition for the RPG side of the game and those who enjoy customization.
No not harmful, but just doesn't make a lot of sense for a game like this.
 

Fantomen

Regular
WBVC
Yes I definitely think it should be removed as a player/companion skill. It just doesn't fit, it's completely unbelievable. Especially now that it's the easiest way to make money to a degree that feels like a cheat.

However I like the weapon customisation system, and I think it should be converted to a very expensive service that you can buy from the smith. It should be a "bad deal" economically compared to the normal weapons just like specialised custom items are in real life.

Perhaps the weapon part tiers are unlocked by clan tier simulating that the smith won't make the good stuff for just anyone, and the absolute most luxurious parts might even be reserved for kings/queens.

Alternatively there could be quest lines to unlock better smiths or something like that.

To say that it's ok to leave a badly fitting and exploitable feature like this in the game because "you can choose not to use it" sounds ridiculous to me, the vanilla experience should only have features that fit well and aren't exploitable.
 

Y_D_A_7

Recruit
Yes I definitely think it should be removed as a player/companion skill. It just doesn't fit, it's completely unbelievable. Especially now that it's the easiest way to make money to a degree that feels like a cheat.

However I like the weapon customisation system, and I think it should be converted to a very expensive service that you can buy from the smith. It should be a "bad deal" economically compared to the normal weapons just like specialised custom items are in real life.

Perhaps the weapon part tiers are unlocked by clan tier simulating that the smith won't make the good stuff for just anyone, and the absolute most luxurious parts might even be reserved for kings/queens.

Alternatively there could be quest lines to unlock better smiths or something like that.

To say that it's ok to leave a badly fitting and exploitable feature like this in the game because "you can choose not to use it" sounds ridiculous to me, the vanilla experience should only have features that fit well and aren't exploitable.
Thank you. That's what I'm talking about
 

Ugbukk

Recruit
This may be unpopular but I think smithing skill should be removed entirely. It's not immersive at all that YOU should be the one that make the weapons and need to spend his own time and experience training in that particular field, between a war and another. Also as it is implemented is a very cheap and grindy mechanic which is difficult to balance with the whole game economy system and thus easy to exploit.

If you go to a blacksmith in a city you can ask if he can make you a weapon, and then you make it yourself. It just don't fit well as a concept and the implementation is utterly garbage. Reminds me of f2p mobile game

I think however that the game mechanic to be able to customize your personal equipment is a great idea because adds so much flavor to the game loop especially in late game.
However you shouldn't be able to make an economy out of it because then it should work as another workshop. My 2 cents

What do you think about smithing?

Actually, I wish they allowed you to make Bows and armor also, not just melee and thrown weapons.

On top of that, it would be interesting to be able to outfit your troops with crafted weapons and armor.
Sure, they have the standard equipment, but if you decided to upgrade say 3 of 8 swordsman from Item A to item B then you can hand them the items and randomly 3 of the 8 when on the battlefield would have these items and be using them in combat.
 

TheBerserk

Sergeant
Actually, I wish they allowed you to make Bows and armor also, not just melee and thrown weapons.

On top of that, it would be interesting to be able to outfit your troops with crafted weapons and armor.
Sure, they have the standard equipment, but if you decided to upgrade say 3 of 8 swordsman from Item A to item B then you can hand them the items and randomly 3 of the 8 when on the battlefield would have these items and be using them in combat.
for that, it requires that we have the possibility to customize his troops with the armors and weapons already existing in the base game, but this only exists in mod
 

relam10

Knight
I would never remove that mechanic. Even if Taleword doesn't achieve a functional/inmersive smithing, I am sure mods will. Total conversion mods can make it shine like crazy. Even adding unique lategame items making them hard to make grinding a bunch of special materials looting world bosses or whatever.
 

lakired

Recruit
I'm so glad this had been brought up, because it's 100% correct. Smithing has no place in a game like this as a player skill. It is fundamentally not balanceable, and is not at all immersive. What king or lord or mercenary captain is also a part time amateur smithy, and what part time amateur smithy is also able to churn out the most legendary equipment in all the known lands? It's nonsensical, and even putting aside the lack of immersion and realism, the only play loops it can lead to are tedious grinding until you've broken the game's economy. It's an unrewarding path to an unrewarding reward.

I do think equipment smithing and customization are lovely concepts, and I love the idea of having a crafting system like this in the game... but it needs to be a paid for service. You should be able to visit smiths of various renown throughout the land, gaining access to higher level smiths in certain specialties as you gain influence within a kingdom. For instance, only castle or town owning vassals might have access to the highest level armorer in a faction, who would specialize in a certain area (X faction has the best heavy armor smith, Y faction the best damage weapons Z faction the swiftest weapons, etc). As an independent faction, you can fund and upgrade your own armory, eventually choosing your own unique specialty at the highest level.

This allows for unique arms/armor customization, provides late game content, helps individuate each playthrough, all without breaking the economy as it will always be a cost negative venture (in fact, it will help improve the economy by providing an additional--but optional--money sink for the player character to invest into).
 

Halbedier

Recruit
Quite the contrary.

The crafting system should be expanded to other pieces of equipment as well, not just some weapons. It is perfectly immersive and allows one to immerse themselves into the craftsman experience.
If you are asking how is smithing immersive in medieval war/kingdom simulator. Well, every proper warparty would have a smith or multiple to take proper care of the gear. If you want to whine about something non-immersive, whine about gear not needing any maintenance.
As for the question of which warlord/king was a part-time smith... well.. which nobody from rags decided to barge into 6-way war and mange to beat everyone and declare themselves the king of the world? Probably the same guy I assume.
 

Halbedier

Recruit
An optional mechanic that takes one entire slot in the skill tree.

And yes ofc it's the player responsability to use the mechanic properly otherwise the game breaks. Ofc
Yeah, It's not like there is a whole bunch of those.
I don't use bantits, therefore Rougery should be removed. I don't do persuasion checs, therefore Charm should be removed. ...
 
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