Do weapon damage numbers mean anything to anyone?

[Big J Money]

I fail to understand at all what the weapon damage numbers signify. I was using a longsword against a completely unarmored foe, and I did 5 damage to him with a +6% speed modifier. 5 damage??? I have a 140 proficiency with that weapon. I just fail to see how 18p can turn into 5p in that situation. The most I was doing versus that opponent was 23c damage with my overhead strike. Now, if the numbers are so drastically random, why don't I sometimes do like 35 damage with it? Am I missing something here? I'll keep trying to see if I was just getting very bad luck once I started paying attention.

The reason I started doing this is because I noticed that the Arena heroes can melee me for almost 50 damage in one strike, and longbow me for 100+. I wanted to compare my damage numbers to that. Also, I never seem to be able to take my enemies down with one hit, and I want to research it.

Thanks for your input,

=$= Big J Money =$=

 

[Ingolifs]

At which point of the swing did you hit him? The damage inflicted seems to be dependant on how fast the weapon was going when it hit. If you hit the enemy when your swing animation was almost completed, the sword wouldn't be going that fast, and therefore wouldn't do as much damage.

I don't know at what part the +6% speed bonus comes in.

 

[Big J Money]

Is that really a part of it? So, you are saying I should time it better, so that I strike the opponent around the halfway mark (I think that would be the most force)? I've never heard of a game doing something like this before. If it's true, it would explain a lot.

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[Ingolifs]

Most of the time it isn't very apparent, but occasionally you'll notice it. For instance, if i'm on horseback chasing down someone else who is on horseback, i might attack in the wrong direction; attacking with a sweep along my left, while the enemy is passing me to my right, and i try to turn right to intercept him with my blade, and it connects just as the animation finishes (where my character holds the blade out forward for a split seond before withdrawing it). In that situation, i manage to do 0 damage to him.

Also, i've seen it where i've been hit by an enemy who has just finished his attack and is jerking his sword back to default position. I go forward, thinking his attack is over and prepare my own attack, but i get hit for 0 damage and my attack breaks.

 

[Velax]

Yeah, I've hit my opponent loads of times at the very beginning of my swing, before I've had the chance to build up any momentum. Always do 0 damage with it.

It also depends where you hit the enemy....I'd assume with an overhead strike you've got a much larger chance of hitting them in the head.

And the speed bonus it lists is to do with your own movement speed, not the weapon speed.

 

[Big J Money]

Okay, I've been doing this consistently now, and these results make absolutely no sense, whatsoever. I've been fighting in the training room against bare skinned Champion opponents.

With an overhead swing using the longsword, I average 17 damage to their head, always with a small positive speed bonus. The damage ranges from 12 to 22, being more likely at the lower end.

My character has 9 STR and 15 AGI. He has 140 skill in one handed weapons. The enemy seems to do an average of about 25 damage when he uses the same technique against me. I cannot understand this at all. This is with repeated training. The only things I can come up with are: 1) I am being penalized for low STR 2) Champion fighters have some kind of natural armor bonus 3) There is something I am doing wrong over and over again.

I have noticed that for some reason, every time the AI attacks, it backsteps the split second AFTER it strikes you. I don't know if that's what causes it or not. Needless to say, I'm going to be observing my numbers on the battlefield and see I perform this lousy out there, too.

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[Velax]

They're champion fighters. I'd say they're going to have a lot more than 140 skill with the melee weapons, and I think that damage is the only thing melee weapon skill affects. It can't affect accuracy, as only your aim decides whether or not you hit with melee weapons. Speed? Not sure. Possible, I guess. Either way, I'm willing to bet his weapon skill is what's making the damage difference.

 

[Ingolifs]

The enemy most likely has a lot of power strike and mad 1 handed skillz.

 

[Fluffy The Hamster]

A look in mb_edit.

Champion Fighter:

Strength: 12
Agility: 12
Intelligence: 0
Charisma: 0

One-Handed Weapons: 161
Two-Handed Weapons: 148

Iron Flesh: 4
Power Strike: 3

Veteran Fighter:

Strength: 10
Agility: 10
Intelligence: 0
Charisma: 0

One-Handed Weapons: 120
Two-Handed Weapons: 113

Iron Flesh: 3
Power Strike: 2

 

[Skyrage]

Weapon momentum + skills + armor all plays a part in damage calculation.
Yes, you DO need momentum when you hit your enemy. You'll hardly deal any or no damage at all if you hit an enemy just as you start or end your swing. It's kinda a good way to spare your friendly troops sometimes really...when an AI takes a sideswipe at a friendly trooper all you do is walk right towards the weapon just before he starts the swing. With a bit of luck you'll take the blow and if you have decent armor, you might just break the attack and not take any damage at all.

 

[Ryuta]

And distance from the enemy, in case of spear. I played while with foot spearman character and found it hard because when enemy is very close, spear don't give any damage (usually 0). And you can't attack with spear when your friends are on its way.

 

[barbaros]

The reason I started doing this is because I noticed that the Arena heroes can melee me for almost 50 damage in one strike, and longbow me for 100+. I wanted to compare my damage numbers to that.

Compare with Xerina (level 43) or Dranton (level 42)? Are you crazy? Let me summarize the Xerina's stats:

Strength:15
Agility:15

One handed:349
Two handed:352
Archery:339

Power strike:5
Power draw:4

Beware Xerina or Dranton!. In arena if enemy archer can hit you consistently even if you are mounted, that's one of those. They were my nightmares in the beginning. Also they can knock you down with 2H, and finish you when you are lying on ground haplessly.

 

[Juno]

and then you lose your bet

 

[Daimyo]

Strange thing is: I've never noticed any damage improvement with my weapon, regardless if it's 40 or 250. On the other hand my stats are higher than Dranton's/Xerina except for weapon skill (7 power strike and 21 strenght 250+ w.skill), but I've NEVER managed to deal the massive amount of damage they do with just woodden swords.

My damage capped at 105-110 against naked pirates when I'm full charging on horseback wielding the most deadly non-crouched weapon (heavy 2h axe: 42c). With a bow (200 skill, 5 power Draw, 21 Str 18 Agi) I've never managed to deal more than 60 hits on a headshot (with a warbow and Hugemods +4 ceremonial arrows). They seem to be able to crush me 40-60 hit points while -on foot- with a woodden sword against tournament chain mail armors, and Xerina shoots bombs of up to 90 damage even if she didn't headshot me with that lousy tournament bow (with wich I've never managed to deal more than 35 hits on a headshot).

I think they use cheated weapons.

 

[DaLagga]

I think they use cheated weapons.

I always thought something like this for quite a while. My theory was that normal damage was actually "double", and 1/2 was actually "normal". It's probably not, but it really does seem that way at times. As far as weapon damage bonuses/penalties go, here's how i think that works. When you attack with a weapon, there are 3 different points during that strike that matter as far as penalties are concerned. 1. Beginning of the strike, 2. Mid way through the strike (about 80% of the attack is considered the middle), 3. End of the attack. If you land a hit at the very beginning or end of a strike, you will deal very very little damage as there is no momentum behind the swing. However, i think the game is merely simulating momentum in this manner rather than actually calculating it. Try going solo against someone with a spear. Walk up to him and stand an inch away, and notice he will hardly deal any damage from a thrust attack. Now try standing a couple feet away, and it will hurt like hell. Now damage bonuses on the other hand, are calculated by relative speeds, but the speed at which you swing the weapon isn't taken into account, except for thrusts. If you stand still and swing at an opponent who is also standing still, your bonus will be +0% every time. However, if you're running towards each other, relative speed is calculated, and you will get a damage bonus depending on that value. It is of course possible that the weapon swing speed is being taken into account in a different manner and simply not being displayed in the bonus percentage on the screen... Those are just my observations, and may not be entirely correct though.

 

[katank]

What's you archery proficiency? Power draw also helps a lot. With a war bow and ceremonial arrows, I routinely get headshots of 250+ damage. This is with roughly 200 archery proficiency and 5 power draw. Each power draw adds 10%

Power strike is less striking (pun intended) with only 5% but is still somewhat of a deal and strength plays into it. On horseback, consistently one shotting even dark knights with high 2H proficiency is easy. On foot, I've brought down opponents with two slashes with a sword.

 

[Daimyo]

Told u, I've 200+ (less than 250 tough), and 5 power draw. Never did more than 70 hits (but it was an head shot against a no-helm river pirate). Maybe you use a different difficulty setting? I use "normal", ergo the maximum on both AI and damage.

 

[Big J Money]

I always thought something like this for quite a while. My theory was that normal damage was actually "double", and 1/2 was actually "normal". It's probably not, but it really does seem that way at times. As far as weapon damage bonuses/penalties go, here's how i think that works. When you attack with a weapon, there are 3 different points during that strike that matter as far as penalties are concerned. 1. Beginning of the strike, 2. Mid way through the strike (about 80% of the attack is considered the middle), 3. End of the attack. If you land a hit at the very beginning or end of a strike, you will deal very very little damage as there is no momentum behind the swing. However, i think the game is merely simulating momentum in this manner rather than actually calculating it. Try going solo against someone with a spear. Walk up to him and stand an inch away, and notice he will hardly deal any damage from a thrust attack. Now try standing a couple feet away, and it will hurt like hell. Now damage bonuses on the other hand, are calculated by relative speeds, but the speed at which you swing the weapon isn't taken into account, except for thrusts. If you stand still and swing at an opponent who is also standing still, your bonus will be +0% every time. However, if you're running towards each other, relative speed is calculated, and you will get a damage bonus depending on that value. It is of course possible that the weapon swing speed is being taken into account in a different manner and simply not being displayed in the bonus percentage on the screen... Those are just my observations, and may not be entirely correct though.

You know, that first statement you made is what catches my eye. I'm tempted to put the game on half damage and see if MY damage is affected at all. If it's not, we'll know for sure!

All of your further information is provocative, except it doesn't take into account the situation with the archery which Daimyo and I are referring to, so I am still suspicious there is another factor. I really want to call it the "X-Factor". If I do that, I will then be almost 1/2 as cool as Daimyo.

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[Daimyo]

Hey, I'm not cool. I'm k00|, wich is somewhat different (yeah me k00|).

 

[Big J Money]

Well, my little test was a waste. I forgot that the setting was called, "Damage to player." So, it doesn't have any effect on how much damage I actually do. I'll just wait until my stats are all around in every way as good as a Champion fighter's, and then fight them some more to see how the numbers look. I also tried setting the Combat AI to Average, but it doesn't affect their numbers.

Man, the champion wielding a 2h sword can manage to do 32 damage to me when I am all the way in his face and he has a -16% speed penalty. This stuff continues to evade me. Maybe for all its faults, the AI stays competitive because it has the ability to calculate the perfect attack within the 3d environment. Maybe that's what all this is about.

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