drallim33
Sergeant
If you like smithing then I have your game of the year right here:
http://polatrite.github.io/progress-bars/
http://polatrite.github.io/progress-bars/
-
If you are reporting a bug, please head over to our Technical Support section for Bannerlord.
Users who are viewing this thread
Sergeant
mserhatbalik
Recruit
Even after all the smelting, discovering and increasing your skill to 200s the weapons you create becomes mediocre.
You can buy much better ones from the market. That's not right.
You can buy much better ones from the market. That's not right.
As I dived deeper into the feature I recognized that it is even more broken than I thought at first:
- Some weapons (especially 2H Swords) give you an incredible amount of xp when forging them
- I don't see any kind of system behind the relation of smithing difficulty to xp reward
- you can forge whatever you have unlocked even if it's far beyond your actual skill, you only get some hardly remarkable debuff on the result
- the tier of the parts hardly affect the weapons stats ( Some low tier blades for example give you a ridiculous swing damage, by far more than a high tier blade) some high tier parts make your weapon make less damage :/
- you get ridiculous prices for high damage swords, this seems to be the only thing to care about if you want to gather denars by forging
Summary: It's no fun that the actual system forces you to exploit the creepy imbalances to get high skill level. And when you reached that there's no reward awaiting you. Actual implementation is breaking immersion and feels absoluetly wrong
I really hope for improvement here
- Some weapons (especially 2H Swords) give you an incredible amount of xp when forging them
- I don't see any kind of system behind the relation of smithing difficulty to xp reward
- you can forge whatever you have unlocked even if it's far beyond your actual skill, you only get some hardly remarkable debuff on the result
- the tier of the parts hardly affect the weapons stats ( Some low tier blades for example give you a ridiculous swing damage, by far more than a high tier blade) some high tier parts make your weapon make less damage :/
- you get ridiculous prices for high damage swords, this seems to be the only thing to care about if you want to gather denars by forging
Summary: It's no fun that the actual system forces you to exploit the creepy imbalances to get high skill level. And when you reached that there's no reward awaiting you. Actual implementation is breaking immersion and feels absoluetly wrong
I really hope for improvement here
OP title says "as a concept". In that regard, yeah, I like Smithing. And I hope it gets expanded to include armor. I like it enough that I do pursue Smithing in my playthroughs, even with all the system's warts. That said, yeah, those warts are real.
The main faults with Smithing:
- Completely random component unlocks. I craft a 1H weapon...why would I learn an axe head from that? For that matter, if I craft my first Tier I 1H sword as a Level 1 Smith, it seems likewise illogical that I could stumble across the secrets of a Tier 5 Thamaskene Steel blade in the process.
- Difficulty restraints (or lack thereof). If I'm lucky on the RNG, I might unlock a very powerful 2H sword or polearm head and be able to create a crazy high-damage (and therefore high-$$$) weapon at very low Smithing skill. The resultant stat penalties are laughably insignificant as a mitigating factor. The whole "skill-vs-difficulty" mechanic needs to be re-worked. (to be fair, RNG can work the other way too...I can also work a long time on Smithing and be far into the game without ever unlocking one of those relatively-few "pinata" blades. lol, that's kinda happening right now in current playthrough).
- Over-emphasis on damage in determining weapon value and XP. Some of those high-damage/value/XP blades are only mid-tier and require mid/low-end materials. For example, the 2H sword Falchion blades are Tier III/IV and are made of Wrought Iron. With only one "batch" of Stamina and a few smelted Looter-level materials, I can make three swords that bankrupt three cities (and have earned somewhere around 10-20 XP and a dozen or so component unlocks along the way).
Solutions:
- "Organize" component unlocks. Link unlocks to tier/type of weapon being crafted. For example, crafting a Tier 2 Axe head would unlock a Tier 3 or perhaps Tier 4 Axe head (but not a Tier 5, and definitely not a Sword or other blade of any tier).
- Make weapon difficulty matter. Smithing a weapon of higher difficulty than skill should either be way more heavily penalized (driving down the value of the crafted weapon), or even prevented entirely. Or combination of both. For example: I'm Skill 100. Obviously any weapon at or below 100 would be fine. A weapon of say, 100-110 difficulty could probably incur the relatively minor stat nerfs we have now. But anything higher than 110 should have increasingly higher penalties, like, 5x or even 10x heavier than what we currently get. And probably around 140-ish or so, the weapon should not be permitted to craft at all. Just throwing out hypothetical numbers to illustrate the idea.
- De-emphasize weapon damage. Link weapon value/XP more heavily to its components' tiers. The highest $$$/XP should come from Tier 5 components, period. I think there's already some element of this in the system, but weapon damage heavily skews the outcome. Which is the major reason why it's 2H swords/polearms (and javelins, from what I read) that are currrently the "go-to" weapons, and 1H weapons are marginalized. (Note: I'm NOT advocating that therefore some high-damage weapons could/should be cheap. Those 100+ damage blades which produce high $$$/XP need to just be moved into Tier 5).
I don't think I'm saying anything that hasn't already been mentioned multiple times this thread, so...
TL;DR What everybody else said, lol.
The main faults with Smithing:
- Completely random component unlocks. I craft a 1H weapon...why would I learn an axe head from that? For that matter, if I craft my first Tier I 1H sword as a Level 1 Smith, it seems likewise illogical that I could stumble across the secrets of a Tier 5 Thamaskene Steel blade in the process.
- Difficulty restraints (or lack thereof). If I'm lucky on the RNG, I might unlock a very powerful 2H sword or polearm head and be able to create a crazy high-damage (and therefore high-$$$) weapon at very low Smithing skill. The resultant stat penalties are laughably insignificant as a mitigating factor. The whole "skill-vs-difficulty" mechanic needs to be re-worked. (to be fair, RNG can work the other way too...I can also work a long time on Smithing and be far into the game without ever unlocking one of those relatively-few "pinata" blades. lol, that's kinda happening right now in current playthrough).
- Over-emphasis on damage in determining weapon value and XP. Some of those high-damage/value/XP blades are only mid-tier and require mid/low-end materials. For example, the 2H sword Falchion blades are Tier III/IV and are made of Wrought Iron. With only one "batch" of Stamina and a few smelted Looter-level materials, I can make three swords that bankrupt three cities (and have earned somewhere around 10-20 XP and a dozen or so component unlocks along the way).
Solutions:
- "Organize" component unlocks. Link unlocks to tier/type of weapon being crafted. For example, crafting a Tier 2 Axe head would unlock a Tier 3 or perhaps Tier 4 Axe head (but not a Tier 5, and definitely not a Sword or other blade of any tier).
- Make weapon difficulty matter. Smithing a weapon of higher difficulty than skill should either be way more heavily penalized (driving down the value of the crafted weapon), or even prevented entirely. Or combination of both. For example: I'm Skill 100. Obviously any weapon at or below 100 would be fine. A weapon of say, 100-110 difficulty could probably incur the relatively minor stat nerfs we have now. But anything higher than 110 should have increasingly higher penalties, like, 5x or even 10x heavier than what we currently get. And probably around 140-ish or so, the weapon should not be permitted to craft at all. Just throwing out hypothetical numbers to illustrate the idea.
- De-emphasize weapon damage. Link weapon value/XP more heavily to its components' tiers. The highest $$$/XP should come from Tier 5 components, period. I think there's already some element of this in the system, but weapon damage heavily skews the outcome. Which is the major reason why it's 2H swords/polearms (and javelins, from what I read) that are currrently the "go-to" weapons, and 1H weapons are marginalized. (Note: I'm NOT advocating that therefore some high-damage weapons could/should be cheap. Those 100+ damage blades which produce high $$$/XP need to just be moved into Tier 5).
I don't think I'm saying anything that hasn't already been mentioned multiple times this thread, so...
TL;DR What everybody else said, lol.
Last edited:
Corvidae
Recruit
So much better than smithing. Thanks for sharing!
I really in favor about some kind of animated mini games for smithing, the following came to my mind:
Heating up metall parts: you put them in the fire a a bar could indicate the perfect temperature for low tier parts the target temperature could be a bigger bandwith for higher tiers the perfect temperature could be hard to hit - the higher your skill lvl is the slower the temperature of the part rises.
Smithing : one bar for aiming at the right place and then one bar for the strength to swing the hammer same mechanic for the perfect hit, making it depend on your skill and the tier of the part you are working on
If you do parts seperately you could bring them together later on. Every part where you did a perfect job, put together could have a chance of improving the stats of the weapon later on. Parts should also get unusable if you ruined them or lower the stats if they are not as good as they can be
If done right and not too time consuming this could be a very nice and immersive addition to the game
Really workin in your own smithy seems very cool and gives the system kind of depth, so that even players who left that aside for now could come back to that and give it a try
Heating up metall parts: you put them in the fire a a bar could indicate the perfect temperature for low tier parts the target temperature could be a bigger bandwith for higher tiers the perfect temperature could be hard to hit - the higher your skill lvl is the slower the temperature of the part rises.
Smithing : one bar for aiming at the right place and then one bar for the strength to swing the hammer same mechanic for the perfect hit, making it depend on your skill and the tier of the part you are working on
If you do parts seperately you could bring them together later on. Every part where you did a perfect job, put together could have a chance of improving the stats of the weapon later on. Parts should also get unusable if you ruined them or lower the stats if they are not as good as they can be
If done right and not too time consuming this could be a very nice and immersive addition to the game
Really workin in your own smithy seems very cool and gives the system kind of depth, so that even players who left that aside for now could come back to that and give it a try
I see your not a fan of being a weapon smith
but maybe this could be additional and not the one or the other solution but perhaps both for those who just want a nice shiny weapon or armor ordering at a smithy. For others a enjoyable mechanic and more immersion if they like to do it.DaliaFR
Recruit
More there are feature better the game will be but like the other symptom of the game actually, so many things can be done but nothing is....They took time for make all village and city in 3D, they are nice but we don't use them, no mission no interraction, and at final it's boring to go inside just for speak with farmer for mission. Smithing has same trouble, it's cool but actually no needed in this step. why no armor just weapons? We can become rich so fast, weapons need destruction. you build sword like autist, where is the fun?
The world of Bannerlord needs smiths, they are important.
Most players like the idea of being able to customise stuff.
The current implementation of smithing is not good, for all the reasons stated in this thread.
Should the player be a smith themselves? Some people like that idea, I personally think it is a poor conceptual fit. It certainly doesn't fit with the skill system.
I explore the crafting systems in most games I play that have them. Though the idea appeals to me, it is very rare that the implementation is compelling. It is hard to stay out the various traps associated with repetitive junk manufacture to get to a point where you can build Excalibur, or the economic ridiculousness of the relationship between component costs, smelting processes, market forces and so on.
For a game like Bannerlord, a town Notable that smiths to order makes more sense (customisation is possible, or just requesting specific gear). That way the flow of play isn't disrupted and you can link the activity more effectively to established values for time and materials. Maybe you further develop the theme that they've started with requiring horses to upgrade cavalry... and require that you have actual weapons and armour of appropriate types to upgrade all troops. Maybe then the absurd economy of infinite junk loot worth pennies and T6 troops running around with gear worth more than a city could be normalised. Instead of feeding your rusty weapons into the denar vendor machine of town markets, you give them to a smith to melt down and make the gear you need to upgrade your troops, or improve your own gear.
Conceptually and thematically that makes sense. I'm scared to suggest that it should actually be pursued though, because that would require a lot of work, and we're already waiting for a backlog of critical features to get the game up to the standard of native Warband.
Most players like the idea of being able to customise stuff.
The current implementation of smithing is not good, for all the reasons stated in this thread.
Should the player be a smith themselves? Some people like that idea, I personally think it is a poor conceptual fit. It certainly doesn't fit with the skill system.
I explore the crafting systems in most games I play that have them. Though the idea appeals to me, it is very rare that the implementation is compelling. It is hard to stay out the various traps associated with repetitive junk manufacture to get to a point where you can build Excalibur, or the economic ridiculousness of the relationship between component costs, smelting processes, market forces and so on.
For a game like Bannerlord, a town Notable that smiths to order makes more sense (customisation is possible, or just requesting specific gear). That way the flow of play isn't disrupted and you can link the activity more effectively to established values for time and materials. Maybe you further develop the theme that they've started with requiring horses to upgrade cavalry... and require that you have actual weapons and armour of appropriate types to upgrade all troops. Maybe then the absurd economy of infinite junk loot worth pennies and T6 troops running around with gear worth more than a city could be normalised. Instead of feeding your rusty weapons into the denar vendor machine of town markets, you give them to a smith to melt down and make the gear you need to upgrade your troops, or improve your own gear.
Conceptually and thematically that makes sense. I'm scared to suggest that it should actually be pursued though, because that would require a lot of work, and we're already waiting for a backlog of critical features to get the game up to the standard of native Warband.
Nawari
Veteran
I trust the developers, I find these forums horrible where everyone gives their opinion and it is not necessarily the best players who express themselves ... I would not like to be in the place of the developers who are forced to review all they had thought because some players say they are dissatisfied when they are very little informed ... It's like writing a book and asking people every day if what I write is right for them. We end up losing all freedom of creativity. This is how we end up having bad games ...
Somewhat agreed, but don't forget that TW chose that when they released their game in the state it is in, just in time to (successfully) cash in on the Corona situation.
The amount of garbage that gets shilled on game forums boggles the mind and Bannerlord's is no exception.
This thread is way better than most, because it has people talking about how the current experience makes them feel and what they do and don't like about it. Quality and relevance of ideas is up to the developer to judge - but players thoughtfully explaining what they do and don't like without getting carried away is always useful, whether it confirms what the developer already thinks, or it teaches them something they didn't realise about how their players engage with their game.
This thread is way better than most, because it has people talking about how the current experience makes them feel and what they do and don't like about it. Quality and relevance of ideas is up to the developer to judge - but players thoughtfully explaining what they do and don't like without getting carried away is always useful, whether it confirms what the developer already thinks, or it teaches them something they didn't realise about how their players engage with their game.
Malonus Dren
Recruit
Yes please!
Others have mentioned some of these already, consider this another vote for those ideas
1. Forging items earns a currency you spend to unlock the parts you want. This way you can still unlock everything if you want even if you maxed your smithing skill.
2. You can't craft an item if the difficulty exceeds your skill.
3. Cap prices of smithed items to disincentivize exploitation. Base the cap on some multiple of the base price of the input materials with bonuses for +stats. This way you can make a consistent, modest profit without getting too rich.
1. Forging items earns a currency you spend to unlock the parts you want. This way you can still unlock everything if you want even if you maxed your smithing skill.
2. You can't craft an item if the difficulty exceeds your skill.
3. Cap prices of smithed items to disincentivize exploitation. Base the cap on some multiple of the base price of the input materials with bonuses for +stats. This way you can make a consistent, modest profit without getting too rich.
I like the concept of Smithing but don't like it to be a "player-only" mechanic and definitely don't like it as a skill.
The way the game generate weapon for troops and the way the troops got promoted have nothing to do with the actual gears, so why would I want to do some repeative works just to get myself and a collective of companions to have some "Unique" weapons? It was fun in my first Professional Blacksmith playthough, but it gets old pretty quick. Don't mention the totally random unlocking made the process furstrating.
As for the skill, I would rather have a Combat Stamina skill than Smithing. The Stamina is actually a great concept if it was combat related, especially that the game itself is combat focused. If a combat stamina system was too much for CPU to handle, then a Armor skill would be nice(let the armor to slow down a character's attack speed and lower the handiness of a weapon).
The dev team must have spent a lot efforts into this smithing thing, but I think the direction was wrong. I just want it to be a function that available in settlements that have corresponded workshop. Then you go visit that workshop and order certain weapons at a lower price just for the cost of labour while letting the player to provide the needed material, may it be ignot/ore/weapon-to-be-melt-down, and the prefix of the outcome should be stick with the global prefix modifier from no prefix to better prefix. The random weapon attributes would work in a roguelike game, but not in M&B where no other NPC was using those randomly generated weapons.
The way the game generate weapon for troops and the way the troops got promoted have nothing to do with the actual gears, so why would I want to do some repeative works just to get myself and a collective of companions to have some "Unique" weapons? It was fun in my first Professional Blacksmith playthough, but it gets old pretty quick. Don't mention the totally random unlocking made the process furstrating.
As for the skill, I would rather have a Combat Stamina skill than Smithing. The Stamina is actually a great concept if it was combat related, especially that the game itself is combat focused. If a combat stamina system was too much for CPU to handle, then a Armor skill would be nice(let the armor to slow down a character's attack speed and lower the handiness of a weapon).
The dev team must have spent a lot efforts into this smithing thing, but I think the direction was wrong. I just want it to be a function that available in settlements that have corresponded workshop. Then you go visit that workshop and order certain weapons at a lower price just for the cost of labour while letting the player to provide the needed material, may it be ignot/ore/weapon-to-be-melt-down, and the prefix of the outcome should be stick with the global prefix modifier from no prefix to better prefix. The random weapon attributes would work in a roguelike game, but not in M&B where no other NPC was using those randomly generated weapons.
Smithing is so OP omg. I found a way to finish the quest "Lord needs a tutor" right at the place, which otherwise needs monthes of battles. Guess how))
