Do medicine levels/perks work across an army?

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ArturMorhghain

Sergeant
I’ve noticed that my companions who lead parties within my army gain points in medicine as their soldiers are injured- great, they get experience! There’s a noticeable difference when leading just one party in having even a basic surgeon with 80 skill points. Far fewer deaths overall in battle. It feels harder to track in an army where the engagements get pretty large. It’s also led me to wonder if the medicine skills and perks actually cover an entire army? I should know the effects better by this point but some education would be much appreciated.

So am I putting my companions who lead a party in greater jeopardy if they are not covered by the surgeon within my party? Or do the skills cover the entire army (aside from any death rate-related concerns).
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I don't think medicine effect NPC survival chance, I think it's just a 10% chance when they go down to a non-blunt attack.
However the troops in their party without a medic are a greater risk of dying. It's agood idea to keep your best troops in your party with a medic and give clan parties b-list troops that easy to replace like khuzait raiders or vlandian levy xbow men+, imo the best stock troops.

Or if you're trying to grind up medicine (lol good luck) do the opposite, put disposable troops in your party with medic (because they will get KO'd) and good troops in clan parties to back you up and win the fight.
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
For armies, the medicine is used from the parties surgeon. (if no surgeon is available then it is the party leader)

They actually affect the survival chance, but currently, it is very low. @AnandaShanti is correct that it has a base value of 10% survival for "wounded" characters. I believe it should be upped, currently working on a skill effects document to revise some of the effects and make some of their effects meaningful, this is a long process but I believe it can improve the experience a lot without relying on mods.

Currently, 0 medicine has 10% death chance and 300 medicine(which nearly impossible) has only 7.5% death chance, so all those skill only reduces the likelihood by 25%. (Of course in standard troops it is lot more drastic around 90% to 25% reduction with 0 and 300 medicine respectively.)
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
For armies, the medicine is used from the parties surgeon. (if no surgeon is available then it is the party leader)

They actually affect the survival chance, but currently, it is very low. @AnandaShanti is correct that it has a base value of 10% survival for "wounded" characters. I believe it should be upped, currently working on a skill effects document to revise some of the effects and make some of their effects meaningful, this is a long process but I believe it can improve the experience a lot without relying on mods.

Currently, 0 medicine has 10% death chance and 300 medicine(which nearly impossible) has only 7.5% death chance, so all those skill only reduces the likelihood by 25%. (Of course in standard troops it is lot more drastic around 90% to 25% reduction with 0 and 300 medicine respectively.)
So are you saying that a surgeon's skill only affects the party he's in, not the overall army as a whole? Each party in an army relies on its own surgeon or party leader's medicine skills. Is that right?
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
So are you saying that a surgeon's skill only affects the party he's in, not the overall army as a whole? Each party in an army relies on its own surgeon or party leader's medicine skills. Is that right?
Yes, that is what I currently understand from our implementation. Of course, some perks have more detailed implementations and I cannot talk about all of them. But for the most part, what you say is correct.
 

hruza

Knight at Arms
So are you saying that a surgeon's skill only affects the party he's in, not the overall army as a whole? Each party in an army relies on its own surgeon or party leader's medicine skills. Is that right?
No I think what he mean by "party" is what you mean by "army". He is not talking about divisions of the troops. You are using different meaning of the same word.
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
No I think what he mean by "party" is what you mean by "army". He is not talking about divisions of the troops. You are using different meaning of the same word.
By "party", I mean an individual group of soldiers that can wander around the map on its own. You and your troops, in other words. By "army", I mean groups of parties travelling together as a unit, i.e., you and your vassals on the way to siege a castle. I assume those are the same meanings the OP and SadShogun are using
 

yehrom

Squire
M&BWBWF&SVC
I don't see where a misunderstanding could be possible there, @hruza
So are you saying that a surgeon's skill only affects the party he's in, not the overall army as a whole? Each party in an army relies on its own surgeon or party leader's medicine skills. Is that right?

Yes, that is what I currently understand from our implementation. Of course, some perks have more detailed implementations and I cannot talk about all of them. But for the most part, what you say is correct.

So @ArturMorhghain guess was correct :
Medicine scope is the party, not the army, as leaders raising their Medicine skill while in army suggested
 

hruza

Knight at Arms
By "party", I mean an individual group of soldiers that can wander around the map on its own. You and your troops, in other words. By "army", I mean groups of parties travelling together as a unit, i.e., you and your vassals on the way to siege a castle. I assume those are the same meanings the OP and SadShogun are using
Ah ok, then I have misunderstood you and I apologize. I thought that by army you mean the party. But what you have just written clears that up.
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
Ah ok, then I have misunderstood you and I apologize. I thought that by army you mean the party. But what you have just written clears that up.
No problem. The terms do get used interchangeably a lot, so its good to clarify that we're talking about the same thing. It would probably be better to use a term like "campaign army" or something since lots of people refer to their immediate party as their army.
 

AnandaShanti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
So are you saying that a surgeon's skill only affects the party he's in, not the overall army as a whole? Each party in an army relies on its own surgeon or party leader's medicine skills. Is that right?
You can also see each party leader get medicine skill up in battle as their troops are wounded. So yeah, unless you use surgeon(s) as party leaders they're stuck with no medic, or rather the very low skill of the part leader.

For armies, the medicine is used from the parties surgeon. (if no surgeon is available then it is the party leader)

They actually affect the survival chance, but currently, it is very low. @AnandaShanti is correct that it has a base value of 10% survival for "wounded" characters. I believe it should be upped, currently working on a skill effects document to revise some of the effects and make some of their effects meaningful, this is a long process but I believe it can improve the experience a lot without relying on mods.

Currently, 0 medicine has 10% death chance and 300 medicine(which nearly impossible) has only 7.5% death chance, so all those skill only reduces the likelihood by 25%. (Of course in standard troops it is lot more drastic around 90% to 25% reduction with 0 and 300 medicine respectively.)
Do you know if any alternate way to level up medicine are being worked on? Or if the amount of skill gained can be improved?
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
You can also see each party leader get medicine skill up in battle as their troops are wounded. So yeah, unless you use surgeon(s) as party leaders they're stuck with no medic, or rather the very low skill of the part leader.


Do you know if any alternate way to level up medicine are being worked on? Or if the amount of skill gained can be improved?
Yes, I am investigating new ways (some of them peaceful) options to improve the medicine skill. I will try to balance the current experience gains (by increasing) as well.
Also, for some of the other skills, we are analyzing their current situation with @Duh_TaleWorlds, hopefully, this will give more insight into skill experience gains and their effects.
 
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ArturMorhghain

Sergeant
For armies, the medicine is used from the parties surgeon. (if no surgeon is available then it is the party leader)

They actually affect the survival chance, but currently, it is very low. @AnandaShanti is correct that it has a base value of 10% survival for "wounded" characters. I believe it should be upped, currently working on a skill effects document to revise some of the effects and make some of their effects meaningful, this is a long process but I believe it can improve the experience a lot without relying on mods.

Currently, 0 medicine has 10% death chance and 300 medicine(which nearly impossible) has only 7.5% death chance, so all those skill only reduces the likelihood by 25%. (Of course in standard troops it is lot more drastic around 90% to 25% reduction with 0 and 300 medicine respectively.)

Wow this is great information to have, thanks for taking all the time to respond! Great to know about it applying just to the current party and not a larger army. The change in survival rate for standard troops certainly feels like I notice it with a companion who has around 80-120 medicine (I rarely get them to level above this). I wonder if there’s a UI way to give some of this information when assigning a party role. Perhaps a call out box with a couple word description? Maybe I’ll put a suggestion in the UI forum.

Yes, I am investigating new ways (some of them peaceful) options to improve the medicine skill. I will try to balance the current experience gains (by increasing) as well.
Also, for some of the other skills, we are analyzing their current situation with @Duh_TaleWorlds, hopefully, this will give more insight into skill experience gains and their effects.

Oh that’s really interesting. I’ve had some quest ideas for gaining medicine experience but am excited to see how else experience could be gained. Ideas I’ve had bouncing around are:
  • Loaning a companion out to local notables to address a disease outbreak.
  • Loaning a companion out to a noble whose family have a baby coming.
  • Loaning a companion to local notables of a town that’s been pillaged or village that’s been looted to help regain something like hearths.
 

Sir_Smittih

Recruit
Wow this is great information to have, thanks for taking all the time to respond! Great to know about it applying just to the current party and not a larger army. The change in survival rate for standard troops certainly feels like I notice it with a companion who has around 80-120 medicine (I rarely get them to level above this). I wonder if there’s a UI way to give some of this information when assigning a party role. Perhaps a call out box with a couple word description? Maybe I’ll put a suggestion in the UI forum.



Oh that’s really interesting. I’ve had some quest ideas for gaining medicine experience but am excited to see how else experience could be gained. Ideas I’ve had bouncing around are:
  • Loaning a companion out to local notables to address a disease outbreak.
  • Loaning a companion out to a noble whose family have a baby coming.
  • Loaning a companion to local notables of a town that’s been pillaged or village that’s been looted to help regain something like hearths.
good ideas for companion medicine quests, would love to see some for other skills as well: engineering, tactics, scouting, steward...
 

ArturMorhghain

Sergeant
Yes, I am investigating new ways (some of them peaceful) options to improve the medicine skill. I will try to balance the current experience gains (by increasing) as well.
Also, for some of the other skills, we are analyzing their current situation with @Duh_TaleWorlds, hopefully, this will give more insight into skill experience gains and their effects.

I’ve been thinking about this lately. Can you share some of the ways you’ve thought that medicine skill might be gained? I admit my quest ideas are of a really limited scope. Would be cool to hear some of your brainstorming if or when it’s appropriate.
 
1.Maybe add lame horses healing to also raise the medicine skill.

2. Don't flat the curve with a small fix 10 x learn multiplier healing rate, change it in regard of soldier tiers. E. G. Tier 1 = 10, Tier 2 = 20 and so on.

3. Don't know if it's implemented bu if you have high losses or wounded soldiers after a big fight, the exponential exp gain is high at the beginning and flattens the more soldier are healed

4. Add healing for prisoners, since you catch them when they are wounded it would seem logical for me, to heal them also

Just suggestions
 

AndrewArt

Sergeant at Arms
Yes, I am investigating new ways (some of them peaceful) options to improve the medicine skill. I will try to balance the current experience gains (by increasing) as well.
Also, for some of the other skills, we are analyzing their current situation with @Duh_TaleWorlds, hopefully, this will give more insight into skill experience gains and their effects.
thank you for your work!
 
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