Do looters add anything to gameplay?

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Pymous

Veteran
The conclusion from my looters killing experiments: 2 main Hypothesis:
1/ "Looters" is a strange cult of people who like charging you with throwing rocks but don't like helmets or any others kind of stuff they have looted during their Looting career. Maybe they prefered to sell all the stuff they loot and put all the fresh money in the Great Looters Bank for their kids?
2/ All looters you met have just started their Looting career. Their destiny is just to fail and die as soon as they embrace this great path. This is for the greater good.

Annex: What would be nice is to have random equipped looters, with random stuff (some guy with better armor, or just an helmet please, and why not a sword or two they have stolen in a tavern or whatever). Keep looters with bad stats but make random equipments (higher tier access, maybe similar to some rank 2-3 units). This way players would at least enjoy to see some funny looters running with extravagant outfit before dying. You win a smile at least.
 
I think the opportunity to expand upon this is when they decide to implement the criminal enterprises/notables.

This adds a base to things like bandit variety, we could have regional gangs with unique troops and equipment choices, like the minor clans, instead of the generic bandits we have now.

As for how much of a problem they are, that could be controlled by settlement security, high security means lower level bandits in smaller numbers, while lower security would mean stronger and more influential gangs.

That creates a progression system, like goods prices, early on they are stable and with lower price ranges and when wars kick in, they start to get more expensive over time. This could also give the AI more things to consider before declaring war and avoid the endless warmongering and have something to do while at peace.
 

Earth Dragon

Sergeant
There are a lot of short sighted views on how to “solve” looters being posted here.

while change is needed “anything but” has, and always will be, the surest recipe for disaster
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I rarely fight looters and other bandits parties. Trading, tournaments, arena and mercenary contract is more than enough to get money and renown in early game.

Looters and bandits parties number could be halved and we still would have too much of them.
 

eddiemccandless

Knight at Arms
WBNWVC
I think one big improvement would be some variation for early game enemies in general.

The thing that bothers me is that looters really aren't early game enemies, they stay vital for troop training even when you are more established. It's like having an rpg where you fight a rat in the warehouse as an introductory tutorial, and then you keep having to fight warehouse rats throughout the game.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I rarely need looters to train troops in mid Game. I train my recruits fighting in battles against other kingdoms. I only use looters and other bandits if I lose all my units but this rarely happens for most of players.

The leadership perk which gives medium experience amount for tier 1-2-3 units is also useful but not great.

Recruiting prisioners is also one of the best ways to get elite units fast.
 

Honved

Knight
The problem is the way looters/bandits spawn in M&B, Warband, and probably Bannerlord. There is always a fixed number of looter or bandit parties of a type, so when you destroy one unit, another is created automatically to replace it. That means, no matter how hard you work at it, you can never reduce their numbers, and no matter how much you ignore them they will never expand into a real threat.

The solution, in my opinion, is to have looters (and some other bandit types) have a variable respawn rate, and a minimum time until the next one can spawn. If they can only spawn one unit every x number of days, then you can keep their numbers reasonably in check with an occasional patrol or a scouting party. If they exceed some number, the spawn rate drops to half or a quarter, and reduced substantially further above some soft cap, so they MUST be cleared every so often to prevent them from accumulating over time, but it will take a long time for them to become a major problem. If you do a thorough sweep, they will only reappear gradually over time, rather than just popping right back up the moment you pass.

I agree that looters serve a legitimate purpose in the game, but the need reduces itself over time to some degree. As factions become more wealthy and powerful, they should be able to release patrols, making looters relatively rare in the more prosperous areas. Having 4-5 large groups of Steppe or Forest Bandits all converge on a Lord from various directions should be an extremely rare occurrence, rather than happening as frequently as it does in Warband. I've jumped in to save lords from the combined armies of over 150 bandits on a couple of occasions, and seen bandit parties with upwards of 25 captive faction troops, in addition to captured peasants.

The present system makes eliminating looters/bandits pointless (aside from training up new recruits and the pitiful loot when you first start the game with practically nothing), since they simply reappear elsewhere.
 

Maximum997

Squire
I think one big improvement would be some variation for early game enemies in general.
This issue was already solved in WB. There was a deserters. In PoP there was even rouge knights.

But in current BL system any high tier mobs will be just ignored, beocuse you have the same ammount of XP from looters, and you can kill them ezpz without casualties.

Right now i train my troops like that:

1) Find good pack of looters
2) F1 F3
3) Alt tab
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
This issue was already solved in WB. There was a deserters. In PoP there was even rouge knights.

But in current BL system any high tier mobs will be just ignored, beocuse you have the same ammount of XP from looters, and you can kill them ezpz without casualties.

Right now i train my troops like that:

1) Find good pack of looters
2) F1 F3
3) Alt tab

Deserter groups would be fun and give a lot more variety. With so many lord troops deserting left and right, there should be lots of them all over the map
 

Pymous

Veteran
Yes, we just need more diversity, more randomness and it will be fun. (Currently all looters group are just same guys with same weapons/outfits)
 

adrakken

Sergeant
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
Looters are very important to the game. They are your prime target at early game. They are there to level off of before moving on to harder content...they are supposed to also be a random possible threat to villagers providing a chance to perhaps disrupt growth and also provide a possible recruitment for someone playing as a bandit leader/king.

Their having no meaning for you, personally could very well be a key element in another persons game session. Sandbox. You make it what you want it to be with how you choose to play it.
 

black_bulldog

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SVC
Deserter groups would be fun and give a lot more variety. With so many lord troops deserting left and right, there should be lots of them all over the map
I'm guessing something like that will be put in along with being able to hire patrols and roaming manhunters.

Yes, we just need more diversity, more randomness and it will be fun. (Currently all looters group are just same guys with same weapons/outfits)
I agree there are no bosses or higher ranking looters it's the same 5-6 guys and they drop the same equipment all the time.
 

durbal

Sergeant
Looters are very important to the game. They are your prime target at early game.

This is only true because there are no other available options offered by the game. Hunting down looter parties to slaughter (hoboslaying) because the game encourages or necessitates it isn't good gameplay. It's like having to check every drawer, crate, and cabinet in an RPG for free loot -- it's there and it serves its purpose of giving the player cash, but what does it really add to gameplay? Is anyone captivated by opening containers?

Look at the much bigger problems caused by looters such as lords needing to respawn with free troops since otherwise they get captured by looters. Look at the tedium of needing to slaughter looter parties. Look at all the opportunities wasted for battles to actually be engaging and for there to be real risk/reward rather than a tireless grind of whacking the loot/XP pinatas that looters are. I don't think they add anything besides a quicker tutorial (and which already exists and doesn't even use looters as enemies), yet they take so much of the game away. So why are they there? Just as filler on the map?
 

Pymous

Veteran
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Honved

Knight
Looter parties should typically be tiny, with an OCCASIONAL bandit item being used or found after battle, to at least introduce some element of interest...."Uh-oh, this one has a REAL spear!". Higher skilled lords should have few problems dealing with them single-handed, and even a typical group of farmers should be on close to an even level, only marginally outmatched.

Bandits are another matter, and a sizable bandit party should be capable of engaging isolated lords, the shattered remnants of an army, or a handful of peasant farmers on their way to market.

As I said earlier, the instant respawn makes them annoying, and the lack of diversity makes them uninteresting.
 

adrakken

Sergeant
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
This is only true because there are no other available options offered by the game.

Nope.

Looters, mountain bandits, forest bandits, desert bandits, sea raiders, town thugs, arena, tournaments...how many more ways are there to learn how to fight? The only thing really "missing" is the ability to join a lords army as a foot-soldier. There really wasnt any other way for a total scrub to learn this **** in medieval times outside of being born to the purple and having your entire life being forced to learn it.

Look at the much bigger problems caused by looters such as lords needing to respawn with free troops since otherwise they get captured by looters.Look at the tedium of needing to slaughter looter parties.

Both are not bigger problems, that is realism. You have lands but no internet issues and banditry? GTFO here...

Look at the tedium of needing to slaughter looter parties.

Look at all the opportunities wasted for battles to actually be engaging and for there to be real risk/reward rather than a tireless grind of whacking the loot/XP pinatas that looters are. I don't think they add anything besides a quicker tutorial (and which already exists and doesn't even use looters as enemies), yet they take so much of the game away. So why are they there? Just as filler on the map?

Highlighted the important bit...because if you did, you would be asking for the ability to hire patrols to be put into the main game(Already a mod for it) and you would not be asking to lessen a key aspect of the game and instead would be thinking up solutions so it remains and your personal issue with it is resolved. Patrols would go after the looters, you no longer have looters to complain about and the rest of us will still have the debt we require. Ta Da!
 
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Pejot

Sergeant Knight
WBVC
The only thing really "missing" is the ability to join a lords army as a foot-soldier.

Actually I was really hoping they will add something like this. I always wanted in warband to join some army as standard soldier making my way to the top. There was a mod for WB that allowed this but it was lacking a lot.

As for OP looters were and always will be part of this series xD First thing I thought when started the game for the first time and I saw looters was "feels like home" xD Maybe I had too many hours in WB but I would miss them if they would decide to not add them.
 
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