Do ladders work better right now than siege towers?

[CrazyElf]

I'm finding ladders more effective right now than siege towers.

Siege towers can be destroyed and the AI isn't really good about taking alternative routes over the enemy walls. Often about maybe 20 troops die when the siege tower is destroyed, although the enemy also sustains some losses too (whomever was on the tower). Siege towers can often be destroyed when they are on their way.

The AI also does not use all 3 ladders on siege towers, but rather 1 ladder (they don't use both ladders on the ladders too). When the siege towers are destroyed, the AI often runs around aimlessly, especially if they have no means to break the front gates. One obvious fix is for the AI to use both ladders and in the case of the siege towers, all 3 ladders.


Should there also be a "backup" pair of ladders when the siege towers get destroyed? That way there is at least some way for the AI to get up?

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Yeah what I do is bring all ranged and park them in front of the ladders, takes some tinkering but once the in the spot to feel like shooting their weapons it's pretty good.

I'm also fond of retreating my party and killing all the infantry and some (or all) of the ranged myself.

 

[CrazyElf]

The problem is that there needs to be an incentive to use siege towers. They need to be better than ladders.

 

[Dreed89]

It's true that siege towers should perform better than ladders when bugs such as owned catapults destroying owned siege towers and losing tens of troops instantly is fixed.

Currently I do not rely on or build any in-game siege equipments. I just destroy both walls and enter the castle from there.

 

[hieronymos2]

Ladders are still very much superior to siege towers for the following reasons:

1) Infantry scale only 1 of 3 available ladders inside the tower, and at a very slow rate, allowing enemy militia troops on the battlements to destroy even elites with ease. A wall segment with two ladders will can 200% more attackers up on the wall in the same time. Any assault with a tower will be much more costly than with ladders if you have missile troops to thin defenders first.

2) With ladders, an assault force can be placed in shieldwall just under the walls, with archers/HA's in loose formation just behind. The enemy will waste all their arrows on the infantry, while your own archers gradually sweep the walls. When enough enemy are down, it's possible you can order your men up the ladders unopposed. With a tower I can't seem to stop the infantry once the tower reaches the wall--so they get slaughtered before my archers can do their work.

3) Ladders take only 50% of the time to build vs. 2 siege towers.

Ladders still suck regarding pathing; often, they use only 1 ladder; then they either don't climb; or a few climb up, while the rest wait below. My approach is to use the system listed above: have infantry &/or shield-carrying cavalry wait in shieldwall at the foot of the ladders, while archers/HA's clear the walls. Then as player, climb up (hopefully unopposed), and order infantry to folllow [1,F1, F2]; then attack [1,F1,F3]--alternating each command set if the troops stop climbing the ladders. Once enough troops are concentrated up top, an assault can be launched.

 

[Darkath]

Bugs and pathing aside, we really need siege specific orders like attack right wall, attack left wall, attack gate etc.

right now i find it very difficult to give orders during siege because F1 F1 is almost useless, F1 F2 is very difficult to use (because of the ladders and pathing) and F1 F3 will produce random results.

 

[**Iphicrates**]

Also, troops hesitate to populate the ladders on siege towers, usually just two or three guys climb up, while the rest is just waiting on the ground. Those two guys will ofc get wrecked instantly, as getting through the defense line requires some serious manpower. Ironically, I see normal ladders as more effective than siege towers in taking the walls, which is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Gremper]

+1

I had the same impression. Perhaps if the defender has a lot of archers, the siege tower can provide some cover for the infantry behind it, but most of the time, ladders just performed better, especially since the troops used only one ladder in the tower.

 

[hieronymos2]

Cheesy siege exploits from Warband also still work wonders. Like climbing ladder alone, and point-blanking guys on the ramparts with arrows...then reclaiming spent arrows from wall, ladder, ground and doing it again. As player, getting 40-50 kills just with arrows is feasible with high bow skill.

Just now took Quyuz on my second try; but nearly bought it when a defender dropped a rock on my head! Hilarious.
But seriously, those rock-droppers are a nice touch, and way immersive. There should be plenty more of them, imo, to thwart cheese-balls like me, and make 5 casualty sieges impossible.

Or they could copy Viking Conquest, where if you'd get tko'd in a siege--or even in battle--you suffer chance of permanent stat loss.

 

[black_bulldog]

Bugs and pathing aside, we really need siege specific orders like attack right wall, attack left wall, attack gate etc.

right now i find it very difficult to give orders during siege because F1 F1 is almost useless, F1 F2 is very difficult to use (because of the ladders and pathing) and F1 F3 will produce random results.

Yes please. Idk why this isn't apparent to TW. It's like they never even play tested their game at all before going into ea.

 

[Julio-Claudian]

Towers still get swarmed by the defenders before the attackers ever make it to the top, often the defenders start climbing down the tower.

I actually find f1 f3, after the gangplank has been lowered or the ladders raised, to be most effective. They climb up more and it makes them actually attack and clear out the enemy on the walls instead of trying to run past them.

 

[notric]

i there any reason that the new default ladders be far enough apart to let a seige tower go in the middle? then if its ladders only they can be used... and if seige tower is built the ladders and the tower can be used (assuming the ai will eventually be fixed such that it can go another route if they are not moving on the current route)

the only way i have been able to make ai use the other ladder in the current game is to ride my horse through the crowd and spin in circles to stir the pot

maybe the devs could designate sergeants/commanders as pot stir-ers if they can't fix the pathing (have the sergeants spread their arms out and spin in circles near bottom of ladders)

 

[Darkath]

maybe the devs could designate sergeants/commanders as pot stir-ers if they can't fix the pathing (have the sergeants spread their arms out and spin in circles near bottom of ladders)

"Sergeant Laddle! Go stir that pot immediately we need more men on the walls !"

 

[hieronymos2]

It just came to me:
in TW games like Rome II, Attila, etc. once the siege tower reaches the wall, its gate/ramp stays up, until the top compartment is 100% filled with troops; then and only then, drops.

THAT would make siege towers what methinks the game are trying to make them be.

 

[lukkyb]

yeah and the siege towers cant be kiled into by the defender since its higher and has a drop off teh end what happens currently is your men on your siege tower die and the enemey fill it and kill them one by one as they climb the ladder

 

[Darkath]

It just came to me:
in TW games like Rome II, Attila, etc. once the siege tower reaches the wall, its gate/ramp stays up, until the top compartment is 100% filled with troops; then and only then, drops.

THAT would make siege towers what methinks the game are trying to make them be.

The ladder should be filled with troops until the door drops too

 

[Herr_Tankred]

Siege towers need a platform over the drawbridge level that can be manned with archers shooting at the defenders.

 

[Dabos37]

Hard to say to be honest. What I really find pretty useful and the main reason because sieges are easy currently as attacker is ram (well, without taking into account cheese or spamming Fians). I just build a ram and attack once I have it. Leaders and siege towers are pretty similar in my view and units also have issues to use all the leaders at the same time, so not much different result.

 

[Darkening Demise]

Only one ladder is used, like only one ladder on the tower. They still refuse to this it.

 

[Ganeic]

I still think they should change back siege towers to use ramps like in Warband, sure it would mean infantry can rush up on the wall but I feel like that's the way its supposed to, now the only benefit the towers really gave was that it provides slightly more protection for troops and some more dumbness from the enemy climbing down them.