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Distance between two fighters

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Hairy Yahoo

On probation
Hello, this is a major problem in combat. There's no distance between two guys fighting each other, it may seem irrevelant but when there's no distance between a group of 500 vs 500, it becomes the root cause of battles ending so quick due to morale impact. It's impossible for infantry to land proper hits like that, it's just a major cluster**** of masses trying to go through each other, hence quickly one of the groups goes into disorganized state and AI starts to run blindlessly doing nothing to the opponent.

It renders formations useless
Playing infantry no fun since all you have to do is to get in behind of enemy group kill 10 people then hunt the rest of the group as they start running like they are on schrooms due to disorganized state.
All infantry lords tend to die asap
Siege defense is a joke, I think AI pathfinding fails due to disorganized state aswell. All I see in siege battles are some AIs running in a hurry from A to B, not reacting to me killing their comrades as if im not the invader.

What it should've been instead, first rank should fight while the guys behind try to poke with sticks or ranged and whenever a guy in front line dies, second rank should replace.

So when this will be fixed? Considering fighting is the core feature of the SP experience, it should've been made good instead of leaving it to modders initiative and considering it's been 9 months after EA access
after 9 years of development
I think this should already be fixed in native.
 

Seafoodking

Recruit
@Callum

The current state of AI combat is like a group of flesh hungry zombies body bumping into each other and fighting mindlessly. We're talking about human, they do not fight like zombies and chest bump into their enemies, even with a large shield. Movies are misleading, no human on earth in their right mind would charge the enemy line with their body like they're playing NFL, unless they are looking to get stab right after. Aside from that, AI has no sense of getting surrounded. They are stuck with their target like a zombie. It's an animal instinct that they would not allow their potential threat to go behind their backs, and if it happens, they will run for a better position.

This AI is:

1. Not realistic
2. Like OP said, it makes formations useless
3. Allows players to exploit their dumb behavior

What TW disappoint us is not only they leave such an unfinished mistake, but also not willing to reply to our suggestions. I had spent over 1000 hours in this game so far. I bet some of my opinions deserve the developers to consider just like the others who had spent hundreds of hours.
Hello, this is a major problem in combat. There's no distance between two guys fighting each other, it may seem irrevelant but when there's no distance between a group of 500 vs 500, it becomes the root cause of battles ending so quick due to morale impact. It's impossible for infantry to land proper hits like that, it's just a major cluster**** of masses trying to go through each other, hence quickly one of the groups goes into disorganized state and AI starts to run blindlessly doing nothing to the opponent.

It renders formations useless
Playing infantry no fun since all you have to do is to get in behind of enemy group kill 10 people then hunt the rest of the group as they start running like they are on schrooms due to disorganized state.
All infantry lords tend to die asap
Siege defense is a joke, I think AI pathfinding fails due to disorganized state aswell. All I see in siege battles are some AIs running in a hurry from A to B, not reacting to me killing their comrades as if im not the invader.

What it should've been instead, first rank should fight while the guys behind try to poke with sticks or ranged and whenever a guy in front line dies, second rank should replace.

So when this will be fixed? Considering fighting is the core feature of the SP experience, it should've been made good instead of leaving it to modders initiative and considering it's been 9 months after EA access
after 9 years of development
I think this should already be fixed in native.
 

Schmutz

Sergeant
WBM&B
Troop collision radius is still ****ed? I haven't tried Bannerlord in many months and it seems it will take many more.
People have been saying this day one, it should have been a top priority then and it definitly should be at this stage...
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
To be fair - actual medieval warfare was basically a giant bloody wrestling match. Watch professionals fight in this style in modern times;


There is also a reason the Romans favoured the short gladius; it was the perfect tool for this short range slugging matches.

I also think the 'King' captured this style of combat in a very realistic fashion.

 

Schmutz

Sergeant
WBM&B
Even if it was realistic, which it isn't, it still sucks most of the fun for me out of the gameplay...
 

Hairy Yahoo

On probation
To be fair - actual medieval warfare was basically a giant bloody wrestling match. Watch professionals fight in this style in modern times;


There is also a reason the Romans favoured the short gladius; it was the perfect tool for this short range slugging matches.

I also think the 'King' captured this style of combat in a very realistic fashion.

Great references also a great movie though I don't think we play the same game because none of the scenes relate to what we have in Bannerlord.

Let me show you how battles are being fought in Bannerlord:
2021-01-25_17.31.03.png

2021-01-25_17.30.36.png

2021-01-25_17.30.27.png

Now please watch the videos you've provided and compare both scenes again. Notice people clipping through shields, since there's litteraly no space between people it's inevitable...

Can you even move your arm in such tight space? Setting aside battling can you ****ing move around at least? This is not how you fight... This cannot be done and cannot be accepted as it's. It's like japanese porn where all bus trying to grind their dicks on the gal, not fcking 700 men trying to fight each other with a meter long swords and spears LMAO the spears.... nevermind I just hope this utter sh"t gets fixed someday...
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
I love the "cyclical" dusting off of problems from behind the shelf. Not that I'm any kind of guru, but I've been commenting on all this since September 2019 on The tactical way: beyond the melee cluster.

Apart from the obvious capsule collider problems, there is a problem in the AI behaviour that increases that feeling of suffocation or zombie effect; facehugging. Imho, that behaviour should be eliminated completely and by doing so it would solve the serious problem of flickering when two groups of high agent density collide. I truly can say that I have given up on giving more feedback regarding this problem. There are bugs and inconsistencies in the very basics of the game; the combat system and everything that revolves around it.
 

Hairy Yahoo

On probation
I love the "cyclical" dusting off of problems from behind the shelf. Not that I'm any kind of guru, but I've been commenting on all this since September 2019 on The tactical way: beyond the melee cluster.

Apart from the obvious capsule collider problems, there is a problem in the AI behaviour that increases that feeling of suffocation or zombie effect; facehugging. Imho, that behaviour should be eliminated completely and by doing so it would solve the serious problem of flickering when two groups of high agent density collide. I truly can say that I have given up on giving more feedback regarding this problem. There are bugs and inconsistencies in the very basics of the game; the combat system and everything that revolves around it.
I'd accept all the sh*t Talewords throw at my face; lack of promised features, refusing to communicate, joke updates, lack of modding tools, lack of private servers, lack of mechanics, weird AI behaviours, terrible economics, unbalance, lack of perks, poor performance,bugs,unfinished quest line etc. these are all ok in my perspective because yeah it is early access.

But having the core of the game designed in a very flawed way, and showing no sign of improvement on it, within the passing 9 months is just a huge FU to my face, which is not kind, I dunno what I've done to be treated like that. This is like making a rally game with fcked up physics engine and instead of showing any way of improving it in 9 months, trying to correct how raindrops behave on windshield and working on porting some commands to gamepad because console gamers are dying to buy this game which is unplayable without mods... oh there are no mods in consoles but shhh anyway we believe ppl will buy it like crazy...

So many wrong goals, so many wrong prioritization, godawful public relation.
I don't blame developers, those dudes are even more nerd than me, I'm sure they've already noticed these issues but I believe they're being suppressed by their managers, this is a Turkish company, I know how we do in our companies... same **** different assholes... I think devs are being managed by people without any gaming indsutry past, and have less gametime in warband than any of us in this thread. They just focus on selling their product without fcking knowing what makes their product sell...

I hope I'm wrong and TW is a great and focused company that aware of all the problems but prioritizing different stuff because nothing's better than giving the finger to your 10+ years fans...

edit: I don't wanna go harsh on Taleworlds, I appreciate all the effort in the game, there's no second to Bannerlord nothing comes close to its potential. I just go into burst of anger sometimes because of how it's being treated, compared to its potential. I wouldn't even care to write in forum if this was an Electronic Arts game or smth, I just can't stand it being directed into wrong path because I know its potential, I've played warband over 2000 hours, skipped my finals to take castles in cRPG extended my University and even learned some basic russian-polish commands to be able to direct an army. Don't take my criticism as nerdrage and please prioritize critical issues, we know you can fix it, we're writing these cuz we believe, don't lose it.
 
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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
@Hairy Yahoo

In general, the devs have a commendable commitment, good technical knowledge and courage, and even the big boss himself has also programming experience. The problem that I see, and that I have commented many times, is that in certain game aspects they have been extremely conservative (mechanics/content with a high level of demand from the player-fan; "what is fun") and on the other hand they have wanted to reinvent the wheel in aspects that should have been built based on the fundamentals of the heritage acquired from warband. F.e. the homogeneous class system for all modes and the overall MP" balance "experience (what nobody wanted/expected). Imho (I could be wrong) we have the result of a chain of unfortunate decisions plus the lack of decision making as a quick response to fan-player-consumer feedback. It's not all bad, there are brilliant things in the game. Unfortunately, at the moment there are more shadows than lights.

That said, I can't but tell you; hug me brother and let's cry together.
giphy.gif
 

Seafoodking

Recruit
According to the modders from the Nexus community, they cannot mod the AI combat behavior because it is hidden in the engine. TW should prioritize improving these features instead of reworking sheep texture. We want to play an intensive medieval combat game, if the AIs are like mindless zombies, that kills the fun from the game.
 

Revverie

I'd accept all the sh*t Talewords throw at my face; lack of promised features, refusing to communicate, joke updates, lack of modding tools, lack of private servers, lack of mechanics, weird AI behaviours, terrible economics, unbalance, lack of perks, poor performance,bugs,unfinished quest line etc. these are all ok in my perspective because yeah it is early access.

But having the core of the game designed in a very flawed way, and showing no sign of improvement on it, within the passing 9 months is just a huge FU to my face, which is not kind, I dunno what I've done to be treated like that. This is like making a rally game with fcked up physics engine and instead of showing any way of improving it in 9 months, trying to correct how raindrops behave on windshield and working on porting some commands to gamepad because console gamers are dying to buy this game which is unplayable without mods... oh there are no mods in consoles but shhh anyway we believe ppl will buy it like crazy...

So many wrong goals, so many wrong prioritization, godawful public relation.
I don't blame developers, those dudes are even more nerd than me, I'm sure they've already noticed these issues but I believe they're being suppressed by their managers, this is a Turkish company, I know how we do in our companies... same **** different assholes... I think devs are being managed by people without any gaming indsutry past, and have less gametime in warband than any of us in this thread. They just focus on selling their product without fcking knowing what makes their product sell...

I hope I'm wrong and TW is a great and focused company that aware of all the problems but prioritizing different stuff because nothing's better than giving the finger to your 10+ years fans...

edit: I don't wanna go harsh on Taleworlds, I appreciate all the effort in the game, there's no second to Bannerlord nothing comes close to its potential. I just go into burst of anger sometimes because of how it's being treated, compared to its potential. I wouldn't even care to write in forum if this was an Electronic Arts game or smth, I just can't stand it being directed into wrong path because I know its potential, I've played warband over 2000 hours, skipped my finals to take castles in cRPG extended my University and even learned some basic russian-polish commands to be able to direct an army. Don't take my criticism as nerdrage and please prioritize critical issues, we know you can fix it, we're writing these cuz we believe, don't lose it.
Well, yes dude, its also been 9 months and the AI cant still get up in a ladder, I just skip sieges entirely for this reason because its completely frustrating to play them, but like you've said, they prioritize so much unnecesary things like console support, who's going to play this game if it isnt even good as a base game!? Its incredible for me, I can even get around to think on why they're putting their resources on so many unwanted places, and MP, I wont even talk about MP, it took the devs months to realize no one wanted crushtrough, they said a thing like what happened with crushtrough wouldnt be repeated... but we still have the class system! lmao. I personally have lost my faith, even if I enjoyed some things of this game like the art and scenery I cant get around to enjoy this game anymore and starting a new playthrough feels more like another path into frustration to the level I just get to wonder why I'm even in this forum anymore, its more a custom I have after being around since the game was announced. I hope they notice your post and fix this too, but you know, I'll leave the hope to you guys.
 

bestmods168

Sergeant
I thought it was fixed in one of the patches where it was something like this: "Ai determines the weapon length of the opponent and distance themselves accordingly."

I know the fix to this problem, but I "ain't" telling anyone...yet.
 

bestmods168

Sergeant
As you can see here, cluster f*** only exists upon initial impact between the two sides. After that the ai watch their distances.
 
Jesus Christ, truly modders are our salvation. Btw, thanks for video @bestmods168
I would suggest that TW knows this, that is why they are primarily developing engine, the game itself being a little behind.

As you can see here, cluster f*** only exists upon initial impact between the two sides. After that the ai watch their distances.
That looks great, hope to see more.
Do they keep their distance also in the case of second line pushing them from behind?
 
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