Discussions on Lore in the Mod {Trading and Production} *NEW*

[Venitius]

This topic is for the discussion for the representation of lore in the mod, as Universe Expansion or C3 Expansion don't really fit... While you can discuss it generally, I'll put up an idea (around every month or so) and you can discuss that, both concerning lore and in game. Should it be openly shown? Should it only exist in rumours? Should it never be shown anyway? Feel free to state your opinion.

To start it off, let's cover that grumble among the Anti-Filaharnists, and their (hopefully) successful attempt to unite the nations of Calradia against the butchers of the Lion Throne.

Yes, I know that it is the middle of the month. It'll continue until Late June/Early July.

Thanks from your friendly, local, cheese-loving moderator,

Venitius.

Keep it clean, gents, and happy debating and Lion-Throne bashing.


New Theme
This is on a less discussed part of the lore, the trading and the production. Discuss where you think things should originate from, where things should only appear, where to get the best beasts and where to get the highest morale-boosting foods, in accordance with the lore and with the spirit of the mod.

 

[foesto]

First of all great idea

and i must admitt i like lion throne but its also cool
to slaugther them with pike and gunzzz

it should be fun to have an alliance but mayby a bit unfair too 

and i am afraid that if i have to choose i prefer Halmaer Union (muskets  )
so yea great idea but not imperial and swadia (too strong {cannons and knight})

grtzz foesto

 

[Venitius]

I do agree that the Lion Throne does look "cool", I mean, full/half plate and barbutes is always cool, isn't it? But you do have to realise, that the Lion Throne, in Lore, is the scourge of Calradia, it's murdered men, women and children in barbarous ways. The Alma Mater is far better; full plate without genocide.

 

[Bunduqdari]

Firstly, I wish to state to you gentlemen, that the Lion Throne is like a tumor. A very big cancerous tumor, a filth in the body of the EATRC world. Or an ugly, destructive swarm of crickets. With armor and sharp weapons. Or a gooey, stinking, mountain-like heap of flying-fox poo, that feeds the thousands of cockroaches (and other multi-legged creatures far worse than those in your nightmares), that relish in it's odorous, still warm body of excrement.

But don't get me wrong, the Lion Throne are people too. They have rights. Actually they have one right: to be exterminated.

Now that that's cleared up,
I think the "secret storyline" (for me) in EATRC is, that the player is supposed to unite Calradia and destroy the LT, or just, generally, to destroy the LT 

I think it's possible that the IS would ally itsself with the HSE.
Even though they still bear grudges against each other, an idea like "let's fight them first and then kill each other off" suits them because they are the same people.

Let's see.. The Ormeli might also ally with the Imperial State. They have no feuds and the Ormeli would benefit from the IS's military technology.

Lauria would ally with anybody except Haelmar and the IS. They need to protect their power at the coast and would be happy to send some coffers of denars more inland for somebody else to keep the LT at bay.

 

[Venitius]

Perhaps Der Kaiser wants to be Holy Swadian Empire himself? After all, he is Duke of Upper Lorraine, had the Imperial State remained in the HSE. That would.. complicate things. But would the Murond join them? Lauria and Murond would never ally, with their great differences. The Kaiser does have plenty of power in Swadia Ulterior, but many of his Generals are of varying classes. In the Holy Swadian Empire, the power vacuum generated by Sigismund's death, this could prevent Murond from joining the IS-HSE Alliance... a precursor to the Anti-LT Alliance? But if Hengest takes power, that could throw Murond into it.

But should Murond join them, the Lion Throne would be desperate to take out Murond before it joins or after it joins. After all, heavy tanks with heavy repeaters with heavy armour is probably going to cause hell for those stuck-up Filaharnists. But who can the Lion Throne turn to? What can they do?

Attack the lands to the deep south? Sure, that may take time and resources for the Calradian Campaign and it'll take time to get them to be brainwashed enough to join the Lion Throne.

Divert more troops to Calradia? That may delay the Lion Throne's expansion in the New World but may give good results.

 

[Bunduqdari]

It is probably more likely that the Kaiser wants to take Sigismund's place and "modernise" the rest of Swadia to make it into pre WWI Germany. A superpower. If that would happen *surely the LT would back off*. But Wilhelm would not be hasty. Sigismund is not dead yet, so he can claim nothing.
He might as well ally with Sigismund in the mean time in order to prevent the LT from gaining ground.

Murond will be seeking to protect their insignificant little island revolution at all costs. Lauria is
indeed too feudal and different to work as an ally. The IS would work, since they can exchange technology and more.

It doesn't have to be one single alliance against the LT, it may also be two.
If Swadia falls to the LT, the Vaegirs and Ormeli have no choice but to be allies.

If the Duchy, which is still young, falls to the LT, the Ormeli and Haelmar have a common enemy.
The Ghazi's get drugs... eehm I mean cheese and the cheese-people learn to use elephant guns.

 

[foesto]

Nice speculating
but what do you mean with alma-mater?

and OK lion throne is a "tumor" but the worst is swadia
with their stupid grizzled villagers... they just keep owning me 
or i at least lose a lot of man... and how about a IS - duchy alliance?
(was wrong with imperial guard  )

but the LT is not that bad I hate laurians more

BTW the Chance that HSE falls to LT is small duchy may by but not the HSE
and sorry for smileys last one

 

[Venitius]

The HSE is very unlikely to fall, for if it is destroyed then it'll be met with great anger. Unlike Ellis, which was really only opposed by Nikephoros. Because the Emperor was Nikephoros.

The Lion Throne is really, really bad - Bunduqdari and myself cannot stress this more - even D'Sparil agrees that they are the epitome of evil, although he hasn't stressed it as that.

By the way, what is the IG? erm, if you mean the Imperial State, they really don't have anything against the Duchy but like the Ormeli, they are rather far away from each other.

The Alma-Mater is this University-State in Bermia; think of it as a combination of the best Universities in Europe combined with Italian Blacksmiths and Men-at-Arms.

And once again, I request that you use smilies less, capitalise more and use spell check. Really, smilies are annoying. Especially when over-used.

 

[Bunduqdari]

I know the HSE will not fall. I wouldn't want it to. Just a what-if scenario.

In any case, every nation in Calradia should already be alarmed by the presence of the LT.
This gives me an unorthodox idea which I will post later in the appropriate section. 

 

[FuryFire]

Calradia is alarmed by two super powers, LT and Lauria. People often discount the Lauria kingdom because they are less different in culture. Bermia, Lauria, Swadia have the same religion if you look at it closely, with the HU only differing with a cult for cheese and the Vaegirs having an orthodox view. LT is very very different, they are expanding in the name of their god and they do it in ways that seem barbaric to Calradians (flayed skins anyone?)

But my point is, in the end, there would only be two players, LT and Lauria... HSE and IS are still grudging enemies, Vaegirs and HSE are long time rivals despite the current lull.

Lauria could not ally with HSE since if the lore is to be followed, Lauria and HSE is at war, with the escalation starting from the capture of Nibelheim by Marshal Hengest (excuse me Bunduqdari for stealing your character, I have already plans for him for Fall of Vienna III)

All in all, alliances are difficult to create even against the scourge of Calradia, for only the HSE realize the true horror of the LT. Calradians conception of the LT is that not many know that LT is a continent wide country. And so are not that fully alarmed, for all they know, they're just another invading faction the likes of which Calradians think they have experienced since the days of pre-Ellis.

Attack the lands to the deep south? Sure, that may take time and resources for the Calradian Campaign and it'll take time to get them to be brainwashed enough to join the Lion Throne.

Divert more troops to Calradia? That may delay the Lion Throne's expansion in the New World but may give good results.

I believe LT has already conquered what there is left of the south, if you check D's modified map. No, much of LT's manpower is diverted between the north, the east, and to the pacification of the recently captured territories. (remember, the continent wide LT we know today is still pretty young, achieved by one man: Pope Saldain.

Diverting massive troops to Calradia will not happen, since the capture *cough*destruction of Vienna will slightly stop the Pope's weakening belief in Mondo the First Deva's ability to lead the Calradian Expedition. The Fall of Vienna will be the reason that the Pope will give Mondo one last chance before unleashing his entire might at Calradia.

 

[Venitius]

I concur that Lauria IS a super power, but unlike the Lion Throne it is hemmed in from most, if not all sides! To the west are the Murond and the New Zendarians, to the East the Haelmarians and the Bermianese, to the South are the rest of the Calradians, especially the Vaegirs, Holy Swadian Empire and Imperial State.

Eventually, the rest of Calradia will know of the horror that is the Lion Throne. Travellers, refugees, diplomats; the word will spread easily of Vienna's demise and of the great defeats inflicted against a former Calradian power.

No doubt Gregory (or whoever that Ellisian Claimant is) will spread word of this. Perhaps... if there is a slight weakening in Ellis.. as Mondo marches to attack Vienna, then perhaps those brave Ellisians and subjugated Swadians will rise up at Grunwalder Castle and show Calradia that they are not finished? The HSE will be far too busy to fund them.. this places Lauria and the Imperial State at an advantage; should they do throw the Lion Throne out in an coalition attempt, they would get praise and rewards for stoking the fires at the start.

I would suppose that if Mondo sends demands to the other kingdoms to submit and they all get disposed off in ingenious ways in accordance with their faction, a bombardment may chase the kingdoms, Mondo being the arsehole that he is. And that would throw a few factions into the hidden coalition.

 

[Bunduqdari]

Vaegirs and HSE are long time rivals despite the current lull.

Naah.. was it ever so bad between them? Almost a constant, low-level wars throughout their histories, yes, but nothing personal. They were never bent on each other's total destruction.
The Vaegirs do however, hate the Ormeli. Where do you think  to-be-Voynik boys come from? Prisoners of war and their families.

Lauria could not ally with HSE since if the lore is to be followed, Lauria and HSE is at war, with the escalation starting from the capture of Nibelheim by Marshal Hengest (excuse me Bunduqdari for stealing your character, I have already plans for him for Fall of Vienna III)

True and no problem everyone can share in Hengest's exploits it's not like he's property

All in all, alliances are difficult to create even against the scourge of Calradia, for only the HSE realize the true horror of the LT. Calradians conception of the LT is that not many know that LT is a continent wide country. And so are not that fully alarmed, for all they know, they're just another invading faction the likes of which Calradians think they have experienced since the days of pre-Ellis.

Not true. Calradia is not a place that's isolated. Word spreads when more then half the known world is conquered by a freak. The fact that a decent-sized force of that same Brigade is present should be enough to cause fear and panic among peasants and lords alike.

It might not be recorded in lore, but the Ormeli, for bordering the *****es, knows it's western enemy well. I think I need to write some lore about this later.
The Ormeli might ally with the HSE, even though they were not always peaceful.

Also, the IS should know too about their horrors. And the Clans.

 

[FuryFire]

Arsehole as he may be.. He did not rise to the rank of First Deva because of stupidity. Mondo would not send subjugation threats to all factions all at once. He smartly decided that the invasion and capture of HSE lands will give the LT a good base in Calradia to attack on sides and divide and further decrease the chances of forming a succesful coalition against the LT.

Ellisians are torn apart actually, while all are converted to Filaharnism, half are still in doubt the ramifications of converting to that faith. But, Ellisians are already broken if you think about it. Stuck to being auxiliaries. Their time is gone. The best example of this is the Tourmach.

Edit: Damn I'm losing my cohesion. It's way way past my bed time and I don't want to leave the defense of the LT in the hands of young fanatics... Coalition... must... not... form...
Well thanks for allowing me to use Hengest Bunduqdari, Don't worry I'll stay faithful to what's been discussed and decided of him, for now, I'm going to sleep.

 

[Venitius]

The IS will probably know about it due to the Swadian Diplomats and Merchants in L'Renouille; no doubt those Swadians will try to use the horror of the oppressing Lion Throne as an argument for their Kaiserlicher brothers to join them. This will soon spread to the Border Guards, and when the Clansmen overrun a camp, they will see the papers and read them, (there will be a few educated men among them) and spread the word. And possibly some New Zendarian Merchants who have gotten word from someone else may spread the word in the clans.

The message can travel fast, especially with so many empty main roads.

Hey, I didn't say all of them. Some of the factions. But if he was drunk.. anyway, there are a few Ellisians there that will fight back when given the chance to. A quick reminder of their heritage may. As well as a few cold-blooded murders of major Filaharnist Ellisians, as well as funding, weapons and training.

 

[Almalexia]

Well the LT is essentially the Mongol empire, except on foot and in half-plate. And remember; the Mongol empire was actually welcomed in Europe, for a time, as they thought that Genghis Khan (or whatever Khan was in power at the time) was the mythological Prester John. Of course, they weren't even fully roused when Russia fell. It was only when the Mongols met the Central and Western Europeans in Hungary that they were fully alerted to the Mongol threat. Not that there was much they could do about it, though.

Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Toffey]

The problem seems to be the deep rooted grudges between the nations close the the Lion Throne. Imperial State is a break away province from Swadia with radically different views (theists headed by king vs atheists with personality cult around leader). It's even worse with the Ormeli and Khergits. A Swadian and Ormeli alliance seems to be the only possibility. The other countries are probably too far from the Lion Throne to worry about them. After all, Swadia has stood against it for half a decade even though it has internal problems and a wacky king. So, I doubt there will be an anti-Lion Throne league. An alliance against Lauria between Murond, New Zendar and independent Bermian states seems more likely.

Great idea for a thread, by the way.

 

[Almalexia]

Well the way I see it, the Ormeli could swing either way. They have no particular grudges against the LT, if I recall, and heck, they might even be warmed to them after drawing the armies of the Khergits away from the Ormeli home soil. However, they could also be frightened by the growing power and involvement of the LT into Calradia, and either decide to stay strictly politically neutral, or try to play other powers against them. A actual military alliance with other nations at war with the LT seems unlikely, as the border between the LT and the Ormeli steppes is quite unfortified, allowing for the LT to easily thrust through the Ormeli heartland and take the key urban centers.

 

[Bunduqdari]

eehm about that, I said earlier that I will write about the conflicts between the Ormeli and the LT, also because the Ormeli generally lack much lore and flavor anyway. But don't expect it soon.
They would never be "warmed" to them IMO. I don't think anybody would.

From all your opinions, I think the best probability is that there will be two alliances:

1 HSE + IS + Ormeli + Clans against the LT

2 Murond + New Zendar + some Bermianese states + Haelmar against Lauria
(remember, Lauria has a stupendously large fleet, for carrying New World silver)

My unorthodox idea I mentioned earlier was that somehow, the forming of an alliance would be
part of an optional "main quest". Simply put, a quest in which a lot of lore is mentioned so that the players are also informed about the EATRC universe (to add immersion).
It would be a very long quest, also involving several other objectives, such as halting the advance of the LT by capturing some settlements and capturing and executing Mondo.

There would be personal objectives for the player, before he can play a role in forming any alliance, like joining a kingdom(obeying a master), getting 800 renown and 15 honor. So the player can be made a high-ranking diplomat of sorts, who can choose to subjugate other kingdoms into an alliance, or choose to do it with the good old persuasion skill and a lot of talking and doing favors and whatnot.

Of course it would all be optional, just a way of putting lore into gameplay.

Whaddaya think?

EDIT: I would volunteer as one of the designers of such a quest. I could do stuff like dialogues.

 

[FuryFire]

Just a note. The IS are not complete atheists... They are just the first ever nationalists in Calradia, putting their country first. The Kaiser allows different religions, but the majority is that of the Calradian Church worshipped by HSE, Lauria and most of the Bermain States.

Although their have been some cases that IS secret police take away all growing Filaharnist Cults in IS lands.


Tiberius has a point. Calradia is getting too relaxed, thinking that the Swadians could handle the LT. The other factions, like the Halmarian Union, Vaegirs, and the Duchy are too far away to give a damn. People in the pre-media age, really don't care about far away behemoths, instead worrying about their neighboring enemies.

Aye, Lauria has a stupendously large fleet. Even the greet loss of 200 ships on the rocky shores of Murond didn't even make Imelda flinch.

Well Bunduqdari's suggestion seems nice. But have it so, that every faction has different and unique objectives.
For example:
Lauria would have quests that could help the faction consolidate their colonies, reestablish Imelda's influence in Bermia, or maybe even to retake the colonial capital of Nibelheim, lost to the HSE.
HSE would have quests to further retake the ancestral lands of northern Calradia which are now Laurian colonies, or initiate a counter attack into LT lands.

While the coalition thing against LT probably won't be historically and logically possible until at least C5. The case of Lauria being ganged-up upon is another matter however.

Still, this is Calradia people, everyone hates everyone. No peace. Only war, welcome to the gray world of EATRC.

 

[Bunduqdari]

I like the idea of different objectives for different factions, but the main thing of my suggestion was also the idea of an alliance against the LT or against Lauria(depending on which faction you join)

Alliances are not entirely impossible in Calradia, They will be very short-lived , yes, but the threat of imminent  and general destruction of most of Calradia at the hands of a foreign invading horde is a more pressing matter than the constant, petty blood fueds between tribes and nations. Look at history, and be surprised by how much of 180 degree turn some kingdoms have taken when their interests were at stake.

That's why I proposed the alliance of the factions bordering the LT, who are more directly under threat.
An alliance against Lauria does not have to be between neighbors, since most of the fighting would happen at sea.