[Discussion] [US_PW_East] New poll: What kind of event would you like to play?

[GK_JaXm]

Thanks for the input.


I am going to wait for the post promised by Suspicious Pilgrim before I make a final call on it.

I am leaving work now, be back in half an hour or so. Hopefully he will have it posted by then.

Either way, I hope everyone continues to enjoy the server no matter what is decided

 

[Suspicous Pilgrim]

[quote author=GK_JaXm]
*Bows before Suspicious Pilgrim and prays for wisdom*
[/quote]


It'll be up either tomorrow afternoon or tonight. Prepare for a reckoning.

 

[eth1234567890]

With the proposed ruleset, I feel it's going to lead to a altered Team Death match server. With these rules, I (metaphorically speaking) could bring on some buddies to the PW server and run around saying "Halt. I'm killing you for your colored boots." With these rules, you could tread it as a altered TDM match. These rules are considered HCRP? I don't think so. They're going to lead to very prime fighters rolfstomping everyone. You could say people could group up and fight whomever are stronged then them. Right, now we have a classic TDM battle going on. Awesome.  I don't think the East community could handle such a drastic change in rules. This is what I Propose the new ruleset be changed to.

General

隐藏

1. Do not kill anyone without a valid (RP) role playing reason. This is considered RDM (Random Death Match) and is NOT allowed on this server.

2. Provide depth to your RP. "2k gold or die" is a perfect example of what we like to call fail RP, which is not allowed. If you provide an in depth environment for others to RP in, they will in turn do the same for you.

3. No metagaming. Metagaming takes away from game play and is not allowed at anytime. Wikipedia definition:
Wikipedia wrote:
Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.

4. You are required to follow the New Life Rule (NLR). This means all in character (IC) information your character may possess is forgotten upon death. Acquaintances must be reestablished. Enemies must be remade. Ect.

5. Information released in global ("T" chat) is considered OOC and cannot be used to RP with.

6. No glitching.

7. Respect all admin and their decisions. If you have an issue with an admin member use the Admin Complaint thread to lodge your complaint. Remember, be articulate with your complaints and provide evidence for support.

8. If you have been banned, use the Ban Appeal thread. Do not pester the admin out of character or in character, this includes via proxy, about your ban.

9. When you have a problem that requires an admin, be informative when asking for help.
"ADMIN HALP OMGWTFHAXBBQSAUCE!!!!11" is not informative and will most likely get you ignored. "Being randomed" is informative. If you do not receive assistance after asking do not immediately ask again. Our staff is busy and will get to you as soon as they get a chance.

10. Spamming will get you kicked from the server without a warning. This includes excessive usage of CAPS LOCK.

11. An admin with any admin armor on is considered OOC and is not to be bothered IC. On the random occasion an admin is killed, looting of that admin's corpse is not allowed. (Armor, Weapons, Money, etc) No exceptions.

Raiding

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Wikipedia wrote:
Raid, also known as depredation, is a military tactic or operational warfare mission which has a specific purpose and is not normally intended to capture and hold terrain, but instead finish with the raiding force quickly retreating to a previous defended position prior to the enemy forces being able to respond in a co-ordinated manner or formulate a counter-attack. Within the tactical mission, a raiding group may consist of personnel specially trained in this tactic (such as commandos or guerrilla fighters), regular soldiers, or any organized group of combatants.

The purposes of a raid may include:

to demoralize, confuse, or exhaust an enemy
to ransack or pillage a location
to obtain property or capture people
to destroy goods or other things with an economic value
to free POWs
to kill or capture specific people
to gather intelligence.
1. Any town or castle may be raided. With that being said, there are further constraints on raiding so make sure you know what you're doing.

2. Raids are required to be announced in global chat ("T" chat) three (3) times and must include where and when the raid will take place.

3. There is a minimum wait period of three (3) minutes before a raid can commence.

War

隐藏

1. Wars are not allowed to be declared without a valid IC reason. No exceptions.

2. Wars are required to be announced in global chat ("T" chat) three (3) times and must include who you are going to war with and a valid reason why.

3. There is a minimum wait period of three (3) minutes before a war can commence. Applies to all factions warring. This includes but is not limited to killing on sight (KoS) of opposition's forces, attacking infrastructure (walls, bridges, doors, chests, etc)

4. To participate in a war, you are required to be wearing armor purchased from an armory. If you are not wearing purchased armor you may not participate in the war. No excuses.

5. If you do not wish to participate in a war, leave faction my pressing the "F" key on a commoner pole conveniently located inside your castle.

6. War is over when a participating faction has lost all of their land, and their Lord has died at least once. When a faction with no land wages war and their lord dies before the capture any land, the war is over.

7. A faction may only declare war on a faction once (1) every hour. In example, if Faction A, who holds no land, declares war on Faction B for land and Faction A loses. Faction A may not declare war on Faction B for one (1) hour. This rule does not apply if a 'protected' faction changes their faction name within that hour period.

8. A faction with land may not declare war on another faction which has no members. No exceptions.

9. Peace must be declared once the winning criteria has been met.

10. If you do not wish to participate in a war you are required to leave your faction. You may do so by pressing "F" on the commoner pole located conveniently inside every castle.

Assassination

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1. Valid RP reason required. No exceptions

2. The assassin is required to state "Contract Accepted" in global ("T" chat).

3. The assassin is required to make contact with an admin ("Backspace" chat) with the following information:
Who hired the assassin
Who the target(s) are
Reason(s) for assassination

4. The victim of an assassination has a right to know why they were killed OOC. The release of any other information is entirely up to the assassin and originating party.

Robbery & Taxing

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1. You may rob and tax anyone.

2. You may not rob the same character more than once (1) every fifteen (15) minutes.

3. You may not rob an unarmored character for more than a thousand (1000) gold OR one (1) item on their person

4. You may not rob an armored character for more than two thousand (2000) gold OR one (1) item on their person

5. A single item includes a horse, cart, hand basket, etc.

6. If a cart is attached to a horse the horse and cart are considered one (1) item.

7. If a cart contains goods those goods along with the cart are considered one (1) item.

Reminder: Keep the RP nice and deep, there need to be dialogue.

Mercenaries

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1. Mercenaries are required to be in the faction they are supporting. The only exception to this is if the mercenaries have their own faction and are at war with the same faction.

Rules, at the end of the day are guidelines. I'm having a hard time understanding how people are finding them too restrictive. It's a game after all. A game about roleplaying, not turning a RPing server into an RP-TDM server.
~Justice

i am going to have to say but what the **** are you people thinking?!?!?! at this time most sever have your "new" rules. people say there is a big randomer problem. so then how is doing to same as before going to help. as if we are lying to are self that we are making big change, as if we are tiring to get in to a locket door so we hit and nothing happen so then we hit it again and think it help.  ZOMFG WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[eth1234567890]

[quote author=GK_JaXm]
*Bows before Suspicious Pilgrim and prays for wisdom*

It'll be up either tomorrow afternoon or tonight. Prepare for a reckoning.
[/quote]
yay!

 

[GK_JaXm]

i am going to have to say but what the **** are you people thinking?!?!?! at this time most sever have your "new" rules. people say there is a big randomer problem. so then how is doing to same as before going to help. as if we are lying to are self that we are making big change, as if we are tiring to get in to a locket door so we hit and nothing happen so then we hit it again and think it help.  ZOMFG WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Well uhm, while this post was done horribly... You do bring up yet another good point... Trying what we have been doing isnt working...

Hmm... Still yet more to ponder

 

[PriestinPD]

There's nothing wrong with our current rule set besides being vague.
It's not a fault of the rule set we're having this discussion, it's because the current rule set might or might not be right for the server.

 

[GK_JaXm]

Very good points on all sides....


I am still neutrel in all of this, kinda weighing the options at this point, so please keep posting more constructive feedback, been going awesome so far, I am very glad this thread was started and how well it has been going so far.

Keep it up gents and remeber, please don't argue or start bashing the other opinions, this entire debate is "For the Players/Community", not to see who can call the other person names in more unique ways


Thanks guys

 

[Austro]

Me and Splintert have had a... humorous... to say the least debate on the “Refunding Victims of Rule Breakers " rule. However, it was on steam and it didn’t result in any change, so I will be publicly posting my opinion to see what all you think.

My position is that I DO NOT support fully eliminating refunds for victims of rule breakers. My revision of this rule is to instead have a REDUCED or FRACTION of the amount lost refunded. That way, the player will feel like they did not completely loose EVERYTHING because of someone who violated server rules and they will be very less frustrated. These are my reasons for my opinion:


                I, and probably many of you have been killed quite blatantly by Randomers and Revenge killers. It's not a good feeling, and when it happens you report it to an admin, and if they’re not busy, they will punish the rule breaker. But what about your armor? What about your Money Bag? Are you not entitled to your belongings after being killed by someone who violated the rules which the server has stated? Of course you are, and if you don't retain it via an admin you get frustrated that the rule breaker will be back soon ( if they got kicked ) or will be back in an hour ( if they got Temp Banned ) while you yourself lost your money bag and your gear which you have spent your time obtaining and following rules. Now, this leads to a problem which is why I am compromising by only having it so you retain a reduced amount of the belongings lost. Players will often lie about how much they lost maybe add a couple thousand here and there, and that CAN lead to economy problems. However, if Admins only gave them a fraction of what they lost, it would not have any effect on the economy because they are retaining what they already had ( If not less ) and they are not getting more than they actually lost. Completely saying " NO, NO REFUNDS AT ALL YOU GET RDM'D TOO BAD " Will not sit well with the players. I would not like it if an admin completely shut me out for being a victim of a person who violated rules. That's not how I've been admining on the East RP server and that's not how I will start admining. Why do we even have RDM rules and NLR rules if we do not compensate those who are the victims of people violating them?

This is my opinion, take it as you will, but I believe it is a fine compromise between having 100% Refunds and having absolutely NO refunds.

 

[Queue]

Me and Splintert have had a... humorous... to say the least debate on the “Refunding Victims of Rule Breakers " rule. However, it was on steam and it didn’t result in any change, so I will be publicly posting my opinion to see what all you think.

My position is that I DO NOT support fully eliminating refunds for victims of rule breakers. My revision of this rule is to instead have a REDUCED or FRACTION of the amount lost refunded. That way, the player will feel like they did not completely loose EVERYTHING because of someone who violated server rules and they will be very less frustrated. These are my reasons for my opinion:


                I, and probably many of you have been killed quite blatantly by Randomers and Revenge killers. It's not a good feeling, and when it happens you report it to an admin, and if they’re not busy, they will punish the rule breaker. But what about your armor? What about your Money Bag? Are you not entitled to your belongings after being killed by someone who violated the rules which the server has stated? Of course you are, and if you don't retain it via an admin you get frustrated that the rule breaker will be back soon ( if they got kicked ) or will be back in an hour ( if they got Temp Banned ) while you yourself lost your money bag and your gear which you have spent your time obtaining and following rules. Now, this leads to a problem which is why I am compromising by only having it so you retain a reduced amount of the belongings lost. Players will often lie about how much they lost maybe add a couple thousand here and there, and that CAN lead to economy problems. However, if Admins only gave them a fraction of what they lost, it would not have any effect on the economy because they are retaining what they already had ( If not less ) and they are not getting more than they actually lost. Completely saying " NO, NO REFUNDS AT ALL YOU GET RDM'D TOO BAD " Will not sit well with the players. I would not like it if an admin completely shut me out for being a victim of a person who violated rules. That's not how I've been admining on the East RP server and that's not how I will start admining. Why do we even have RDM rules and NLR rules if we do not compensate those who are the victims of people violating them?

This is my opinion, take it as you will, but I believe it is a fine compromise between having 100% Refunds and having absolutely NO refunds.

That is a great idea, let's appease both sides.

 

[Cerce Tentones]

Hey.  When a schizophrenic psychopath killed someone back during the 1200's, there were no respawns, and people didn't get their belongings back.

I'm not always the biggest advocator on realism - but this new ruleset is at least something different.  Too long have the rules been based on the old NA/EU rules, or the HCRP rules, be they modified as they have been.  It's time for something different.  And if it doesn't work?  Then go back to the old ways, for all I care.  But something has to be done.

Roleplay is stagnant, from what I've seen.  I've revived Cerantia, and left it to stay, only to see people just quit and join the next largest faction.  It's all about protection, gaining as much as you can, and then taking from others while it's fun.  There needs to be some scare factor, some realistic need to travel together, to cooperate, to actually get to know one another in-character so as to reduce the chance of being paired with a traitor or insane looter.  Seriously, JaX, this needs to happen.

 

[Austro]

Hey.  When a schizophrenic psychopath killed someone back during the 1200's, there were no respawns, and people didn't get their belongings back.

I'm not always the biggest advocator on realism - but this new ruleset is at least something different.  Too long have the rules been based on the old NA/EU rules, or the HCRP rules, be they modified as they have been.  It's time for something different.  And if it doesn't work?  Then go back to the old ways, for all I care.  But something has to be done.

Roleplay is stagnant, from what I've seen.  I've revived Cerantia, and left it to stay, only to see people just quit and join the next largest faction.  It's all about protection, gaining as much as you can, and then taking from others while it's fun.  There needs to be some scare factor, some realistic need to travel together, to cooperate, to actually get to know one another in-character so as to reduce the chance of being paired with a traitor or insane looter.  Seriously, JaX, this needs to happen.

It will happen, in Persistent Frontier, it is being announced this Friday.

 

[Splintert]

The launch ruleset you showed me a while back had more rules than Atriarc's proposed set.

 

[Austro]

The launch ruleset you showed me a while back had more rules than Atriarc's proposed set.

That's off topic and will be discussed in the PF thread.


Back to the Refunding Rule...

 

[GK_JaXm]

I want to hear what people think of Austro's thoughts on the refunds.

Not going to say anything further till that part is discussed a bit

 

[PriestinPD]

Since we more often then not we can't tell if the player is being truthful or not, we could refund a percent. It still probably won't sit well with players but not as much as giving no refunds.

 

[Austro]

Since we more often then not we can't tell if the player is being truthful or not, we could refund a percent. It still probably won't sit well with players but not as much as giving no refunds.

True, and I am going to save myself the trouble of proposing my own rule set because I am currently busy working on the announcement thread for Persistent Frontier

 

[Splintert]

So. Them refunds.

Basically, the original intent of a refund as created by Aldric on EU_A back nearly a year and a half ago was, quite literally, to shut the "victim" up. Over time, as the "victims" became more numerous and came to the realization that they could make money by capitalizing on administrator laziness, incompetence, or corruptness. So, over more time, the high admins of the EU_A server and NAPW servers created this idea that the player is entitled to a refund in almost any situation in which they were slightly wronged. At first it wasn't too bad, a little bit of extra money didn't hurt too many people. However, over time, due to a growing reliance on this refund money, players simply stopped making stuff. It's why there are no horses. People don't make armour or weapons very often, either. Without a doubt, there is more money spawned into the game by admins than has been collected by players at any point in time.

Taking away administrator refunds entirely removes the incentive to whine to admins for money. The only benefit a player can get is removing a rulebreaker, which benefits everyone. If their case is not worthy of removing a rule breaker, they do not deserve to be refunded for a slight inconvenience.

On that note, if administators do not spawn refunds even for those victims of verified rule breakers, it will create a deeper reliance on other players to either fund them, protect them, or craft new things for them. The more negatives there are to being killed, the more likely a player is going to desperately avoid death. Avoiding death through in-character methods is pretty much the basis of all spontaneous roleplay. Players who legitimately fear death are considerably less likely to perform suicide charges from the spawn to an enemy castle, or wildly attacking a much larger group of guards for a miner in the off chance they win the battle and take the loot.

Basically, the idea behind removal of refunds is to give players an incentive to live by creating larger, more lasting negatives to dying (be it by rule breaking or not).

 

[Queue]

Since we more often then not we can't tell if the player is being truthful or not, we could refund a percent. It still probably won't sit well with players but not as much as giving no refunds.

True, and I am going to save myself the trouble of proposing my own rule set because I am currently busy working on the announcement thread for Persistent Frontier

I swear the troops will be done by Friday. 

*Back to the Topic*

I think maybe even going to the corpse and seeing the armour you had would help determine the percentage you get back. Just a rough estimation. I also think admins should crack down more on the deliberate randomers (spawning in the Commoner Town and just swinging.)

 

[Austro]

So. Them refunds.

Basically, the original intent of a refund as created by Aldric on EU_A back nearly a year and a half ago was, quite literally, to shut the "victim" up. Over time, as the "victims" became more numerous and came to the realization that they could make money by capitalizing on administrator laziness, incompetence, or corruptness. So, over more time, the high admins of the EU_A server and NAPW servers created this idea that the player is entitled to a refund in almost any situation in which they were slightly wronged. At first it wasn't too bad, a little bit of extra money didn't hurt too many people. However, over time, due to a growing reliance on this refund money, players simply stopped making stuff. It's why there are no horses. People don't make armour or weapons very often, either. Without a doubt, there is more money spawned into the game by admins than has been collected by players at any point in time.

Taking away administrator refunds entirely removes the incentive to whine to admins for money. The only benefit a player can get is removing a rulebreaker, which benefits everyone. If their case is not worthy of removing a rule breaker, they do not deserve to be refunded for a slight inconvenience.

On that note, if administators do not spawn refunds even for those victims of verified rule breakers, it will create a deeper reliance on other players to either fund them, protect them, or craft new things for them. The more negatives there are to being killed, the more likely a player is going to desperately avoid death. Avoiding death through in-character methods is pretty much the basis of all spontaneous roleplay. Players who legitimately fear death are considerably less likely to perform suicide charges from the spawn to an enemy castle, or wildly attacking a much larger group of guards for a miner in the off chance they win the battle and take the loot.

Basically, the idea behind removal of refunds is to give players an incentive to live by creating larger, more lasting negatives to dying (be it by rule breaking or not).

If the Admin is lazy and will refund the player because they whines a little bit in admin chat then the server needs to get better admins. If someone is constantly whining and spamming admin chat they should not be  given pity and refunded just because they scream the loudest, rather kicked for spamming admin chat. And as I said, having a reduced amount refunded to you maybe 30% or 40% of what you lost will not break the economy. It will simply give you back what you lost ( if not less ) of what you originally had prior to being killed because of rule breakers.

And this whole notion of " Hiring Protection " to protect yourself from rule breakers is completely absurd. Why would I play on a server and spend money, effort and time in trying to prevent a rule breaker from killing me? They should not have killed me at all anyway, why do I need to go out of MY way to prevent that?

 

[Suspicous Pilgrim]

Hey JaX, I just noticed that you said you'll wait for my opinion before taking action



I just wanted to let everyone know my response and the point I am making will probably be too big for this thread (I've broken the character limit before) and I may just start a new one and lock it immediately afterwards for your review and the review of everyone else. I promise that it will be big. I can also promise that there will be blood.


I'm personally indifferent to regunds, but I'd like to say I've easily obtained money and healing from admins just by breaking the honor system. There definitely should be a guaranteed refund if the admin witnesses a rule violation (to be more specific, he witnesses not just a fight he doesn't know the reason behind but actually someone visibly breaking the rules- kicking an AFK player off a bridge or attacking teammates and logging off)