Discussion + Suggestions

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Michadr

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BVC
Alex the Seeker said:
the enhanced bow animations looks unnatural o.o  the arm nocking the arrows looks like it bends at an wierd angle.

plus he`s like leaning forward for no reason, archers don`t have a scope on their bows to lean forward on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXEdY9k1gPc&feature=youtu.be&t=7m42s - this is somewhat the equivalent of a re-curved bow in-game, look how he hold the bow, even tho he has a sight thingy (ones in the middle ages/fantasy lore don`t have sights/scopes)

by leaning forward you won`t ever hit your target with a bow, only in movies you see ppl leaning and doing other unneccesary postures with the bow, because they are catchy and ppl seem to like them, but proper archery is a whole different thing o.o

http://youtu.be/feU_jAoDliM?t=2m10s

so going by just efficiency no archer in  a fight will use  a posture like in those animations.

closest thing that comes towards that animation would be the Horse archers, but they lean a bit from complete different reasons.

i have a feeling that the people who made the whole enhanced animations, only made them to be more "artistic" and not take in account a proper fight o.o
This actually makes sense, but the videos you linked shows some modern compound bows. For instance if you watch this videos> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGcm-J1ggfw, http://youtu.be/Fq8N8vszCMQ, you can see him slightly arching forward when loading and shooting. Like you said the animation adds some unnecessary postures and that makes it somewhat unrealistic.  But I would also like to see some comments about why people like the animation because as if right now there are more yeses and I have see none or hardly any comments related to why people like it.

Joshua Ryde said:
Katsuki said:
To me, this is ugly...
Plus, it doesn't fit with the Perisnoan troops general looking. Red and gold is not their colors...
And actually this armor is already in the game. The devs ar too good  :lol:
It is in the game? Where? Because i saw a Holy Champion wearing a similar outfit in a photo - didn't think it was this one.
And yes, you might not like it. Just maybe some ideas to brighten up some high-tier units.
Maken them look "elite" - the dwarves like gold, maybe they could have armor like that.?
Similar armor? I would like to see that myself, for I am not sure which one you might be referring too. The style of the link doesn't suit Perisno as stated. But armor that has somewhat that style and fit into warband would be okay.
 

habeo123

Sergeant Knight
We have new armor in stock, that was shown in the previews a couple days ago. And I expect some more so I can change the style of certain troops. I also think the current Holy Champion is not looking good.
 

T.L.S.

Knight
WBVCNWWF&SM&B
habeo123 said:
We have new armor in stock, that was shown in the previews a couple days ago. And I expect some more so I can change the style of certain troops. I also think the current Holy Champion is not looking good.
Just replace this ugly crowned helm and they will be ok
 

Joshua Ryde

Regular
T.L.S. said:
habeo123 said:
We have new armor in stock, that was shown in the previews a couple days ago. And I expect some more so I can change the style of certain troops. I also think the current Holy Champion is not looking good.
Just replace this ugly crowned helm and they will be ok
Hmm, i think they need a bit more than just the crown (no offense; this mod is amazing). Currently, they look near identical to Perisno Great Knights.
I just think that with all the "Chosen One" and starting the "New Kingdom" and "reunifcation" etc etc...some of the troops could be a bit better stylised? Atm, the elves have the coolest looking gear with all the Minas-Tirith helms etc (winged and carved etc).
Personally, i don't particularly like the Perisno troops due to their colour and armor. The Darkforest Archer hats looks a bit ridiculous and the Darkforest Rangers look a bit mix-and-match between a light archer and a light knight/cavalry.
They are well balanced i feel (maybe a bit too powerful at times).
Thanks (i hope im getting my point across well enough).

ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT POINT......
I know that this is a separate mod, and you must get MAD with people suggesting you to copy Prophecy of Pendor...but that mod died. There is no more development in the game.
But i plead with you to introduce what was the MOST popular aspect of Prophecy of Pendor...the Knighthood System.
I doens't need to be the same, they don't have to have the same names or gear. I know the setting of perisno is very different, and i like it in some ways, in others i don't. No game can be perfect, albeit Perisno or Assassins Creed IV. I know PoP is far more medieval based with lots of knights and heavy units and chivalric setting, but i think that Perisno could do with a bit more of it.
I posted a MASSIVE page of information on what i called "Guilds" (which were just Orders if we are being honest :razz: ). Adding a new aspect like this would
a) Get you massively more popular (if you are interested that is. Doesn't have to be your main aim.)
b) Give players SOO much more to do (in addition to all the awesome new things like hunting etc).
c) be beneficial to you...
-----> People have been asking for customizable troops and household units. Now you have them. Knighthood Orders can be either like they are in PoP, or have them as a player-option. Create your own AS A HOUSEHOLD troop.
Thank you very much for reading this long, boring reply (if you have). I cannot thank you enough for your work and also cannot emphasise how good i would be to have Knighthoods in Perisno.
 

Alex the Seeker

Sergeant at Arms
rather than the whole Knighthood system from PoP, which was cool and all but took too damn much time to even upgrade 1 item.

why not have Household units for the player, have some templates like chose 1 type, archer/crossbow, infantry, cavalry
and to be able to costumize their gear and level them up through a Questing/Feat sistem (but not quests like got to X take Y, and it is the household troops that need to do the killing), but lets say to get +1 STR defeat 100 Bandits or something similar, up to a cap, and lets say if you complete 10 quests (value can be changed) they go up 1 lvl and get 1-2 talent points or how many you guys deem necesary.

to avoid exploiting, they can be limited to 5 or 10 (but be always in battle with the player)
and have like let`s say Heroic Quests involving special spawns, so they can get Perks/Legenday Gear.

i think this would be more exciting than waiting 50 days to get Mail Armor on your knights.

 

Joshua Ryde

Regular
Alex the Seeker said:
rather than the whole Knighthood system from PoP, which was cool and all but took too damn much time to even upgrade 1 item.

why not have Household units for the player, have some templates like chose 1 type, archer/crossbow, infantry, cavalry
and to be able to costumize their gear and level them up through a Questing/Feat sistem (but not quests like got to X take Y, and it is the household troops that need to do the killing), but lets say to get +1 STR defeat 100 Bandits or something similar, up to a cap, and lets say if you complete 10 quests (value can be changed) they go up 1 lvl and get 1-2 talent points or how many you guys deem necesary.

to avoid exploiting, they can be limited to 5 or 10 (but be always in battle with the player)
and have like let`s say Heroic Quests involving special spawns, so they can get Perks/Legenday Gear.

i think this would be more exciting than waiting 50 days to get Mail Armor on your knights.

Damn, that is a really cool idea. Although i think you would have to either kill the (as you said) bandits or whatever with a quest or item that contributes those kills to the Order. Instead of just any random kill. Or the system counts the number of kills that type of unit gets in a battle.
e.g. Get 1000 kills. if you had 50 of those men, it would count how many kills they got in battle until it totalled 1000. so probs about 30 battles.
But yeah, have a reward system with questing. and maybe money can speed up their gear. not skills, just maybe improve gear a bit (normal sword-->fine sword).

Alex, i was talking about Kinghthood Orders not only in the sense of upgrading your own, but to join as well and rank up. Your own units would be cool, but before then it would be nice to have Knighthood Orders where you rank up to Grandmaster etc. e.g. Knight of the Griffon or Knight of the Lion.

And also, have the option to upgrade them from perisno nobles. And the noble system of each costing 1.5k (i think) is quite bad because at a high level you can make 20k a week just from fiefs. Maybe have a renown cost or honour from some troops. That was very effective in limiting how powerful you were in PoP.
 

Alex the Seeker

Sergeant at Arms
Joshua Ryde said:
Alex the Seeker said:

snip

well my ideea is based on personal elite guards... that`s why i said these dudes should have a limit on how many you can recruit.
and gear progression by money doesn`t feel any different than normal companions.
instead by a questing/feat sistem, you can add that roleplay element.

i was thinking for making them available when you got your first town, ofc they would cost a lot of money to recruit in the 1st place, they could die aswell.
once you made your choice what type to recruit (ranged/infantry/cavalry) you would have to stick with it.

the knighthood thing would be nice as well, where you would have different knighthoods but i think it would be cooler if they did that with the current Minor Factions.

we have Wolf Knights, Demons, Assassins of Ral'Daiun etc., and could be based on the same sistem. ( for funzies to make the Amazon minor faction only available to female characters  :mrgreen:)

the whole questing/feat system would be quite a pain to code (i immagine) but it is based on the PoP Achievement system, but instead of giving stats to the player, it would count for your Household troops their kills for the quests/feats and give them the respective rewards.

they should be hired through the constable, high price for them (since they`ll be elite troops), if they die to take time to train again (and lose some of the rewards like 10% of what they got so far - value can be tweaked) if you want them almost the same as before, or get a fresh household troop without the quests done.

as i said personally i would find the Household troops for the player more interesting and refreshing than the knighthood orders

side note: the quests/feats could also be chosen from the Constable, since you could have multiple choices at the same time depending what you want to make your soldiers to be, like: - powerfull 2h shock troops
-shield bearers that could stand up to the redwood bows
- shockcavalry (light/heavy) etc.
 

Pikalyze

Recruit
"ON A TOTALLY DIFFERENT POINT......
I know that this is a separate mod, and you must get MAD with people suggesting you to copy Prophecy of Pendor...but that mod died. There is no more development in the game.
But i plead with you to introduce what was the MOST popular aspect of Prophecy of Pendor...the Knighthood System.
I doens't need to be the same, they don't have to have the same names or gear. I know the setting of perisno is very different, and i like it in some ways, in others i don't. No game can be perfect, albeit Perisno or Assassins Creed IV. I know PoP is far more medieval based with lots of knights and heavy units and chivalric setting, but i think that Perisno could do with a bit more of it.
I posted a MASSIVE page of information on what i called "Guilds" (which were just Orders if we are being honest :razz: ). Adding a new aspect like this would
a) Get you massively more popular (if you are interested that is. Doesn't have to be your main aim.)
b) Give players SOO much more to do (in addition to all the awesome new things like hunting etc).
c) be beneficial to you...
-----> People have been asking for customizable troops and household units. Now you have them. Knighthood Orders can be either like they are in PoP, or have them as a player-option. Create your own AS A HOUSEHOLD troop.
Thank you very much for reading this long, boring reply (if you have). I cannot thank you enough for your work and also cannot emphasise how good i would be to have Knighthoods in Perisno. "

Interesting idea, but..

A. This would in no way, make this game 'massively' popular. In fact, it would stay relatively the same. What makes you think that adding one feature makes something insanely popular and lures players in? Your pretty close to saying "This 'ONE 'FEATURE' will make this game much much more popular."

B. There is already PLENTY of things to do in the regular M&B WB, and none of these features were stripped in the mod.  The Perisno mod for sure has many unique features, but in my opinion, Knighthood might be a little.. well, quite far out there :smile:.

C. Please explain.

- This is just my opinion though :razz:
 

Equinoxdawg

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Could we possibly get that option that gives moral to your troops added in? A bunch of mods have it when you go into taverns and say something about getting a drink for your men and it costs like 1000 coins etc and gives you 15 morale when you need it, pretty sure if it's (your morale) in the higher range it doesn't, so you can't get to full from it.

I have an army of 210 (iirc) and the 400+ enemies weren't the problem, it was the morale issues. I lost more people to morale than I did in a battle (all thanks to the great ones the Redwood elves, of course).

Edit; I'm too stupid to realise there's an e in morale.
 

Joshua Ryde

Regular
Equinoxdawg said:
Could we possibly get that option that gives moral to your troops added in? A bunch of mods have it when you go into taverns and say something about getting a drink for your men and it costs like 1000 coins etc and gives you 15 moral when you need it, pretty sure if it's (your moral) in the higher range it doesn't, so you can't get to full from it.

I have an army of 210 (iirc) and the 400+ enemies weren't the problem, it was the moral issues. I lost more people to moral than I did in a battle (all thanks to the great ones the Redwood elves, of course).

Yes please. Even if you double the price, morale issues when you start your kingdom can be the worst thing.
Spend time in a tavern and pay for ale!
 

Katsuki

Regular
Well I disagree,  I think that those things like "pay and morale goes up" should not be an option.
You shall disband a part of your army in time of peace and constant struggle at your ennemies in time of war...
 

Joshua Ryde

Regular
Katsuki said:
Well I disagree,  I think that those things like "pay and morale goes up" should not be an option.
You shall disband a part of your army in time of peace and constant struggle at your ennemies in time of war...

Yes, you do have a valid point and in a game where you can easily rack up thousands of aurums by holding 3-5 towns at peacetime and then just pay 1000 or 2000..it kills that aspect of the game.
Instead, similar to foraging, i have heard of a skill which is like charisma..."entertainment" or something.
Basically, you can get a companion(s) with high charisma (or yourself ofc) to level up this skill and it increases morale when camped/decreases the rate that it falls.
E.g. Lyre/singing. 5% reduction per level (or 3% of whatever the devs decide). Or 5% per 8hrs camped - for this one you would ofc have to have a higher skill to balance out a larger army otherwise you would still lose morale.
Just a method of keeping morale up whilst "on the road".
 

Equinoxdawg

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Katsuki said:
Well I disagree,  I think that those things like "pay and morale goes up" should not be an option.
You shall disband a part of your army in time of peace and constant struggle at your ennemies in time of war...

It doesn't necessarily need to be paid for, just as long as there are additional ways to get morale when you need a larger army would be fine with me.
 

Silberfalke

Sergeant Knight
Michadr said:
Alex the Seeker said:
the enhanced bow animations looks unnatural o.o  the arm nocking the arrows looks like it bends at an wierd angle.

plus he`s like leaning forward for no reason, archers don`t have a scope on their bows to lean forward on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXEdY9k1gPc&feature=youtu.be&t=7m42s - this is somewhat the equivalent of a re-curved bow in-game, look how he hold the bow, even tho he has a sight thingy (ones in the middle ages/fantasy lore don`t have sights/scopes)

by leaning forward you won`t ever hit your target with a bow, only in movies you see ppl leaning and doing other unneccesary postures with the bow, because they are catchy and ppl seem to like them, but proper archery is a whole different thing o.o

http://youtu.be/feU_jAoDliM?t=2m10s

so going by just efficiency no archer in  a fight will use  a posture like in those animations.

closest thing that comes towards that animation would be the Horse archers, but they lean a bit from complete different reasons.

i have a feeling that the people who made the whole enhanced animations, only made them to be more "artistic" and not take in account a proper fight o.o
This actually makes sense, but the videos you linked shows some modern compound bows. For instance if you watch this videos> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGcm-J1ggfw, http://youtu.be/Fq8N8vszCMQ, you can see him slightly arching forward when loading and shooting. Like you said the animation adds some unnecessary postures and that makes it somewhat unrealistic.  But I would also like to see some comments about why people like the animation because as if right now there are more yeses and I have see none or hardly any comments related to why people like it.
I like the archery animation. Shooting like this is also like I learned it and I learned it from someone with a lot of
experience. Also, what Michadr pointed out is right as well, as there is a big difference between traditional archery
and modern, how it is presented in that video of an indoor championship. These are different worlds...and different
bows! :wink:
 

askuaninja

Veteran
I do like the custom archer animation and if the odd bending forward were to be removed, I would call it perfect. But is it just me or are the custom animation slower than the native one? That could make a slight balance problem, at least in my eyes, with the crossbows. The biggest strength of the bow is that it shoots faster than the crossbow. A slower bow, means less of an advantage.

But i might exaggerate that differerence. But on the topic of crossbows, I found their use in the game bit strange. In battle, bows beat crossbows because of speed. But crossbows were popular because of their ease of use and less requirement than the bow. A good archer needs a lot of training to become strong enough to use a bow effectively, but a crossbowman much less. So the way I see it, crossbowmen should be cheaper and faster to train and have less upkeep, so that you can have many of them, but be less useful in battle. Archers on the other hand would be the opposite. To balance the strongest crossbows, you could, and should, make them really slow, as they were in real life.

Just to make them more unique  :grin:
 

Silberfalke

Sergeant Knight
askuaninja said:
I do like the custom archer animation and if the odd bending forward were to be removed, I would call it perfect.
The bending forward and to the right prevents the string from touching the body in
the moment of the release. In a movie it looks much better if it's not done but the
truth is that it is less professional and might ruin a clean draw and release.
askuaninja said:
But is it just me or are the custom animation slower than the native one? That could make a slight balance problem, at least in my eyes, with the crossbows. The biggest strength of the bow is that it shoots faster than the crossbow. A slower bow, means less of an advantage.
It is in deed a bit slower, because the archer has to check the arrow to be knocked
in properly. It can get really ugly if he doesn't. This can be reduced to bits of a second
but hardly be left out to make it look better and be faster. It's just realistic. Crossbows
are a different story of course but as the items are still in polishing allthough almost
finished now, adjustments will be made in that respect, to not let it take centuries to
shoot an arrow or bolt... :smile:
askuaninja said:
But on the topic of crossbows, I found their use in the game bit strange. In battle, bows beat crossbows because of speed. But crossbows were popular because of their ease of use and less requirement than the bow. A good archer needs a lot of training to become strong enough to use a bow effectively, but a crossbowman much less. So the way I see it, crossbowmen should be cheaper and faster to train and have less upkeep, so that you can have many of them, but be less useful in battle. Archers on the other hand would be the opposite. To balance the strongest crossbows, you could, and should, make them really slow, as they were in real life.
That is a good point. We will take this into consideration as well as before. There will
be a noticable difference, but remember, that this mod isn't 1:1 realistic and doesn't
have to. It's supposed to be fun to play and that's something we will aalways/also try
to stick to... :mrgreen:
 

Baralgin

Recruit
I want to suggest to make a troop like in SOD Warlords that u can give your own troops and send to a location like a patrol or garrison.So u can just walk the lands and send to the base everyone you gathered without returning yourself.
*Option to give money and prisoners to all kind of settlements for relation and prosperity.
*Option to choose who will follow you in battle on start.
*Relation increase with lords after duels,maybe after 5 or 10 wins and only those who love to fight like martials.
 

Dark_Hamlet

Master Knight
The two types of animation (the vanilla archer animation and the alternate version presented by michadr) are valid. The vanilla animation works better with light bows while the other seems to be made for heavier bows which requires more strength from the archer.

Of course that when forced to choose only one animation for all bows I can understand why the animation for lighter bows was used:

Based in my opinion, it's much more awkward to see an archer use an animation meant for heavier bows when holding a short bow than to see an archer use an animation meant for lighter bows when holding a war bow.
 

Michadr

Grandmaster Knight
WBM&BVC
Thanks for yor input Dark_Hamlet. Though the voting is even right now, I dont see this animation being added. If i knew of way to add both animations depending on bow type I would.

About having a player's base, that is not a priority right and is not likely to to be added in 0.7
Pre-battle options will probably we worked with when I get around to the AI.

-michadr
 

Katsuki

Regular
In this mod, the music are gret and wisely picked, but there is a problem.

It's a bit anarchic, one can hear tavern music while travelling or battle music in a tavern.
Plus, the german drinking song is great, but not when I'm in a desert.

So, my suggestions are :
-Faction specific music each faction as it own theme that you can hear while being one of their Lord + a battle them that you hear while fighting with/against them.
-Place specific them : Some places deserve different kind of music cooler music while wandering the elven woods, harsher music in the highlands of Maccavia, special music for the desertic land....
 
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