Discussion for Native Expansion Developer Snapshot

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I play with high leadership character. With current beefed up leadership your renown needs are way down and that makes gathering nobles a lot easier.
 
Pimpio said:
I play with high leadership character. With current beefed up leadership your renown needs are way down and that makes gathering nobles a lot easier.

What do you mean? Leadership reduces wages for the army (which is good since nobles requite lots), but the renown costs do not change as far as I can tell.
 
ShadInqu said:
Pimpio said:
I play with high leadership character. With current beefed up leadership your renown needs are way down and that makes gathering nobles a lot easier.

What do you mean? Leadership reduces wages for the army (which is good since nobles requite lots), but the renown costs do not change as far as I can tell.

Meaning that in this mod you get to field 10 troops instead of 5 for each point in leadership. Therefore you can spend pretty much all renown for noble troops and still field a good sized army.
 
Little heads up on the Siege Expansion pack: If you use it in the Dev version, when the attackers rush out to meet you during sieges, the fight will occur in a dungeon* (Tested on Curaw and Sargoth) instead of the city gates. Is anyone else having this problem, or is it just happening to me?

*Here's an example, this is at the siege of Curaw
i6xPQ.jpg
 
Vaegir Luchnik said:
Little heads up on the Siege Expansion pack: If you use it in the Dev version, when the attackers rush out to meet you during sieges, the fight will occur in a dungeon* (Tested on Curaw and Sargoth) instead of the city gates. Is anyone else having this problem, or is it just happening to me?

*Here's an example, this is at the siege of Curaw
i6xPQ.jpg

I haven't met this yet probably due to the fact that they never rush out to meet me. Nice setting though, dungeon battles  :grin:
 
The siege and scenes pack might be fully incompatible with the DEV version.  I've just started a new save game, and the opening fight scene has become a siege scene and the merchant's home has become a Sarranid village. (<Tested in Reyvadin) If you uninstall the siege and scenes pack you'll get an RGL error* if you load a save that previously had the siege and scenes pack.

The bug seems to affect many scenes and it's unfortunately game breaking.  I might be best if you don't install it for the time being seeing as it will corrupt saves and break the game.

* This is the RGL error, it's probably because the scenes.txt changes if you've uninstalled the sieges and scenes pack
RGL error: load error: number of scenes in file:554 exceeds 524
 
A little odd bug: if you want to start a brewery, you will need to buy grapes to brew ale. Might just be me but here's how it looks*. It might be that the guildmaster just says grapes are used and grain is actually bought.

*This is in Ahmerrad seems to happen in Tulga as well
BJlA7.jpg
 
Vaegir Luchnik said:
The siege and scenes pack might be fully incompatible with the DEV version.  I've just started a new save game, and the opening fight scene has become a siege scene and the merchant's home has become a Sarranid village. (<Tested in Reyvadin) If you uninstall the siege and scenes pack you'll get an RGL error* if you load a save that previously had the siege and scenes pack.

The bug seems to affect many scenes and it's unfortunately game breaking.  I might be best if you don't install it for the time being seeing as it will corrupt saves and break the game.

* This is the RGL error, it's probably because the scenes.txt changes if you've uninstalled the sieges and scenes pack
RGL error: load error: number of scenes in file:554 exceeds 524
You're right, it's incompatible. Not "fully" incompatible, but it will require a different scenes.txt file. Noted.

Vaegir Luchnik said:
A little odd bug: if you want to start a brewery, you will need to buy grapes to brew ale. Might just be me but here's how it looks*. It might be that the guildmaster just says grapes are used and grain is actually bought.

*This is in Ahmerrad seems to happen in Tulga as well
BJlA7.jpg
Thanks! Noted.
 
Some things so far:

General:

1 - "Meet spy in enemy town" Quest give this message once you accept it: "SCRIP ERROR ON OPCODE 2325: Invalid Item kind ID: 52879664; LINE NO: 13:
At dialog consequence:
dlga_quest_meet_spy_in_enemy_town_accepted:quest_meet_spy_in_enemy_town_accepted_response."


2 - Auto Battle still show..."interesting"...results: 196 of my troops against 1: I got 3 losses (1 khergit rider, 1 mercenary pike, 1 kharash scout killed) against a steppe bandit. (If I knew this Steppe Bandid where this good I would try to hire him instead  :lol: )
Auto Battle should give more reliable results when the battle is a sure win, like 196 against 1.

3 - I attacked Deserters Vaegir Bowmen twice, and they charged me instead of shooting. (still trying to find more of them to make sure this happens all the time).

4 - Ambushes on towns/villages seems to be happening more often (someone have already reported this I guess). I think its a matter of design (not a bug), and particularly I don't mind being attacked like...20% of the times I enter a town/village at night. However, sometimes your partners are way too far from you to provide any help (it happens on villages more often).

5 - Khergit Kharash Clansman rides Khergit Noble Warhorses, but the tooltip on troop tree says that they have Riding 4, while this horse is for Riding 5.

6 - Blackguard/Champion/Lord pictures are misplaced at troop tree.

Game Balance:

I like Khergit, but for the sake of balance I must say that they're indeed stronger - very stronger - particularly adressing to their horses. The Kharash line is particularly unbalanced, and I think the Scout should have Armoured Hunters/Courses while Clansman could ride Khergit Lamellar WH in like, 80% vs 20% chance of having the Noble Warhorses instead. Scarred Kharash could have unarmored Courses/Hunters 50% of the time, following the thought that the Kharash line is more a "mounted infantry" than a cavalry, their horses should be a bit lighter. Today, even when you manage to take a Clansman or a Savage Kharash from their (tough as hell) horses, you still have to deal with a Heavy Infantry so, based on this, their horses shouldn't be a problem on their own.
Didn't had the time to see how other factions are doing, I pretend to try them on the future.

Clarity:

Some things for the sake of clarity should be better explained:

a) how exactly horses on inventory impact party speed?? IMO, if inventory weight slows the party down, the horse could show a "cargo capacity" so we know when we have enough horses to carry our stuff. (Gimme that mule!!)

b) Recruitment seems to be a little ramdom: sometimes I have 0 relationship with the village and get 6 tribesman while recruiting, sometimes I try to recruit from a 20...30 relationship village and get 1..2...even zero tribesman sometimes (yes, I have plenty of troop capacity left). Why this happens? (explanation should be in-game somewhere too...)

Items:

I'm too amused with item and equipment variety right now!! (well...this sure isn't a bug but I had to say it!)

Edit: Thanks for reading until this point!!
 
Version: Native Expansion [DEV] v0.620


**BUGS**

Critical: Attempting to engage Czar Yaroglek in combat will result in a complete game crash.  If his character model is loaded into the battlefield, the game crashed.  This happens regardless of any other circumstances, if you engage a different army, but that army is joined in battle by Yaroglek, the game will crash.  The only way to defeat him is to bring a massive army and order your troops to attack without you.

Critical: If you loan a companion to a lord and that lord then leaves your faction, that companion is completely removed from the game.  Happened to Thorgrim in my game.

Critical: When a village rebels, if the rebellion is not crushed immediately by the player the village will be raided by a passing war party, and then the option to crush rebellion never reappears.  Even if you manage to do quests and get the village back up to a positive rep score, they never rejoin yours or any other faction until the connected location (IE Castle or town) is taken again.

Moderate: Oil and Spice do not count in your larder toward feasts, no matter how much you have or what quality it is.  However, even when it reports that oil and spice are scant, the table will still be considered bountiful if they are present.

Moderate: Resolve dispute quests reward no RTR under any circumstances.

Moderate: Nord Eihenrahajarsjarnranr (whatever they are called) elite units are classified by default as Archers even though they only have a few throwing axes.


Annoying: Feasts are bugged in other ways, occasionally when asking about larder status the wife replies "Of drink the guests were forced to purchase their own from passing peddlers or send some of their retinue home early.." etc. This report is so large it fills up the entire chatbox and you can't see the rest of your larder status.

Annoying: If you ask a monarch to join you in your war against another faction BEFORE declaring war on that faction it sets the impatience timer for the request from then on.  If you then go back, declare war, and ask again, the monarch will state that he has "Already given you an answer" on that matter.  You have to wait a few weeks before asking again.

Annoying: When NPCs attempt to shield bash the game returns the following error:
6F506E0374F5AA0B47EBE9C14C8C33DD99193229



N/A: Not sure if it is a bug but Vaegir Lineman is supposed to have a mace/shield combo but when you order them to use blunt weapons, only 1/2-2/3 actually have one.  The rest just use their fists.  Capturing prisoners is a real pain in the ass because manhunters are so hard to find and the only default troop with blunt weapons of any kind that I could find was Vaegir Lineman.


**COMMENTS & SUGGESTIONS**

Kings are insanely, ridiculously overpowered.  I have seen Graveth and Ragnar with 900+ man armies, each containing roughly 100 elite and up to 200 fully upgraded noble troops.  I cheated a character to level 50 with max leader, charisma, and 5000 renown with 3 towns, 5 castles, and 7 villages under my personal banner and my party capacity was barely 350.  If kings are going to be that powerful, then the player should be able to be that powerful when he reaches a similar status.
[Suggestion]  Either cap the max army size for a king at 500-600 or allow the player king to have similar leadership benefits that current kings do.  I don't have a problem with them being VERY strong and scary, but 800+ size single armies just stupid.

Elite and noble troops costing renown by default is just dumb.  It traps the player in a cycle of farming renown by taking on sea raiders or bandits with small elite parties before you have any realistic chance of taking on other monarchs, who in addition to having naturally high renown, do not suffer from this handicap.  The player can choose between having a decent army, and having decent renown.  Renown is ESSENTIAL to having a properly functioning internal government as Lords will not respect a monarch with perpetually low renown, regardless of their RTR.
[Suggestion]  Make renown cost for elite troops on by default in brutality mode ONLY.

ASSASSINATIONS occur FAR too frequently and Royal assassins are insanely overpowered.  I have been hit through my armored crown for 90 damage by their throwing stars. You can count on at least one attempt per month and 3/4 of them succeed because there are 2-5 assassins whose throwing stars can disintegrate a shield before you can get close to them
[Suggestion] When attacked in a town or castle, the town or castle should be populated by guards chosen from the garrison which attack the assassins if you are in a town or garrison owned by you or your faction.  If this is not feasible, bodyguards should be chosen the same as they are for bandit attacks.

[Suggestion] Add some kind of tooltip or dialog box into the game explaining how capital SOI works.  I had several villages rebel for a long time before I figured out by randomly looking through this forum that they needed to be given to other lords and that it is unwise for me to personally hold fiefs that aren't right next to my capital.  This mechanic is fine, but it needs to be explained INGAME.  Perhaps have the minister mention it to you anytime you hold fiefs outside of your SOI that they will grow more rebellious until gifted to another Lord.
 
I really LOVE this mod. Beautiful and cool. It is in 99% finished, so pls any modder who knows the job - FINISH IT :smile:)))

In official release there was issue where no wine was avaiable - in fact there was hidden wine :razz: It had the image and the name 'Ale' :smile: If u see closely u can notice that 2 barrels both called 'Ale' of the same quality have different prices. Also that 'hidden wine' as 'Ale' IS being consumed in quest 'bring wine for party' :smile:

BUG with troop stats
3 swadian troops (pikeman and the 2 before them in tree) They had NO Agility. I have fixed it in troops.txt and i will present here my fixes to it.

pikeman:
Code:
trp_swadian_pikeman Swadian_Pikeman Swadian_Pikemen 0 15728640 0 0 15 78 0
  366 0 730 0 731 0 365 0 195 0 759 0 760 0 760 0 721 0 279 0 280 0 281 0 282 0 283 0 411 0 526 0 528 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 
  16 13 6 6 14
 100 30 120 30 30 30 0
0 0 0 13104 208896 0 
  34359738369 1315051091194281984 1835136 0 67645760199 7916447985573822463 2031036 0

infantry;
Code:
trp_swadian_infantry Swadian_Infantry Swadian_Infantry 0 49283072 0 0 15 66 82
  358 0 354 0 363 0 366 0 730 0 189 0 190 0 187 0 188 0 191 0 195 0 759 0 224 0 224 0 271 0 271 0 476 0 477 0 411 0 499 0 435 0 412 0 551 0 552 0 553 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 
  13 12 6 6 10
 100 30 30 30 30 30 0
0 0 0 13088 204800 0 
  17179869185 1315051091194281984 1835136 0 50465891015 7916447985573822463 2031036 0

saergant:

Code:
trp_swadian_sergeant Swadian_Sergeant Swadian_Sergeants 0 49283072 0 0 15 70 79
  366 0 730 0 731 0 365 0 188 0 606 0 191 0 195 0 759 0 760 0 477 0 479 0 474 0 411 0 826 0 553 0 553 0 554 0 559 0 559 0 560 0 280 0 275 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 -1 0 
  15 12 6 6 12
 100 30 30 30 30 30 0
0 0 0 13104 208896 0 
  34359738369 1315051091194281984 1835136 0 67645760199 7916447985573822463 2031036 0
 
I know this is out of topic but, I just made an account to say thank you, your mod is great and I am glad it is back, I've played the old one in 2012 and now it's time to play it again! Keep up the great work!
 
Hello! I really appreciate the work put into this mod! Native became stale for me after 3000+ hours and I've been looking for an alternative for quite a while!

1. I've played some previous versions of this mod where it was way too easy to get rich.
Right now (Current version 0.623) it's pretty easy to exploit profits from armors fallen from Sea Raiders in the north.
I get 40-50 good men and camp at their cave until they pile up to about 110 and attack me.I get 5-6k denars from such instances and feels like an exploit to a harsh mod.

2.Fish cost 1 denar no matter the quality,that needs adjustment.

3.It would be cool to see great armors from previous versions of this mod only ridiculously expensive.Right now I can't find any of the +62 armors.The "best" gear on the market is pretty mediocre and I managed to snatch a +55 armor set from ... cheese .. rustlers .. that happened to be ... super-geared knights ._.
 
Petresko said:
Hello! I really appreciate the work put into this mod! Native became stale for me after 3000+ hours and I've been looking for an alternative for quite a while!

1. I've played some previous versions of this mod where it was way too easy to get rich.
Right now (Current version 0.623) it's pretty easy to exploit profits from armors fallen from Sea Raiders in the north.
I get 40-50 good men and camp at their cave until they pile up to about 110 and attack me.I get 5-6k denars from such instances and feels like an exploit to a harsh mod.

This is by design. Once you start owning multiple fiefs, upkeep for your garrisons alone is going to bankrupt you with vanilla wages basically. 5k denars won't even pay for a week of a mid-range party wage, let alone the x10 you'll need in garrisons to defend them. If you don't own any fiefs at all, and your party size is modest, it's a great way to get scrap up. But also see my response to your question #3.


3.It would be cool to see great armors from previous versions of this mod only ridiculously expensive.Right now I can't find any of the +62 armors.The "best" gear on the market is pretty mediocre and I managed to snatch a +55 armor set from ... cheese .. rustlers .. that happened to be ... super-geared knights ._.

All gear got rebalanced and follows a linear progression model, which is why you don't see the +70 items anymore. The highest-tier items are going to be expensive, and the highest-tier modifiers on them are going to be extremely rare. And those armors will be extremely expensive - I've seen exquisite plate suits go for over 100k. Mostly it should be centered around that a weapon of a given tier will always be able to damage someone wearing gear of a particular tier.
 
1. Steel shield wasn't handled right, since it was always meant to be something nearly unbreakable at the heavy cost of its effective size. Now it doesn't have the staying power one would expect from the only lump of metal in the game that can be used as a middleman in the intimate introduction of the enemy and your face.

2. So long as everything and everyone can be looted, I'm fine with it. If there's anything unlootable, then I got a problem.
EDIT: All of the lieges' equipment was tagged as unique when I looked through the text with morghs. I killed off 2 factions before I bothered to check why I haven't gotten any of the really good stuff. Course I changed that with a quickness, but for those items to be unlootable by default...

3. Overall it's not the worst I've seen, but little things like the Mamluks not getting mamluke mail makes my eyes twitch. On top of that the manhunters seem too lackluster as the only reliable(lol) blunt weapon specialists. You could get some sarranids to fill the gaps, but not all of them have mauls or maces and sometimes they refuse to stay in your party if you're fighting against their kin. Guess it comes down to the lack of diversity in being too streamlined and railroaded, as if you look at the swadian knights they lost their morningstars and maces in the latest update, making them less effective overall and getting rid of their unpredictability factor on whether they'll be useful for killing other things or just a damage soak.

4. Better than native, but still something one shouldn't rely on unless you both don't care about the lives of your men and can replenish relatively quickly and easily.

5. Works perfectly fine with the new items. Used the item list from the cheatmenu to see everything in-game rather than in morghs and everything I'm meant to see, I saw.

Is it on purpose that during the item rebalancing, you got rid of a lot of the swadian good armours or nerfed them to the ground? As of right now, with the 4 units that use the heraldic cuir, the swadian lineup looks way too similar. Can't tell the difference between the captain and the pikemaster and the squire and the knight should they be on foot, and the two cavalry are indistinguishable even when mounted unless the squire came with a hunter. Think ya need to either readjust the coat of plates to contend with the plate armour it originally was meant to be similar to, or get some new armours to fill the gap provided by the universal nerfings. For now I'll just mod my game to make knights look like knights again.
 
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