BEAST - Bannerlord Early Access Skirmish Tournament

BEAST is the first Bannerlord Skirmish tournament in Europe.

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Bannerlord
Language
English (UK)
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245
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192

[Discussion] Class Limits

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TheBard ✂

Salt Knight
Master Knight
Heyo everyone,

as BEAST 6 draws to a close more and more, I want to open this discussion to discuss the current class limits openly. So in case you have input for the class limits, I would like you guys to post it here because otherwise it will just get forgotten in suggestions when some other topic is brought up to attention.
What I want to stress here: this isn't #general from BL PickUp, so please stay civil in the discussion.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Open up for everything. Bannerlord is so stale right now. Maybe we can expose and discover viable anti-csv comps. Finally can play horse archer.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'd say make the next poll have only "limit of 3" and "no limits" as options and exclude the "limit of 2" option. if people still want some limits they can have them, but we are guaranteed to unlock some new combos to break up the meta a bit.

personally in favor of no limits
 

Nord

Recruit
If 2h requires no skill so pick more archers/skirmishers and dont let them fight.

As for me 2-2-2 limit is ok for now.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
I'm for no class limits. If cav are broken - and they almost certainly are - for some reason the devs need to be shown this, and shown that even giving 100% dmg bonus to inf doesn't change that fact due to core mechanical issues with cav as a class.

The game will still be playable and even fun, it will just be a different meta, and we will hopefully also contribute to a more balanced game.

All class limits have achieved in the past year and a half is to make a broken, unfinished game playable, but more slowly balanced.
 

Livso

Regular
Most people here are going to work, and i dont know how you but im not really thrilled by idea by having to play even ****tier BL after whole day at work just to show devs their game is broken.
Not even mentioning they probably dont even care at this point.
 

Silvernj

Grandmaster Knight
The game will still be playable and even fun, it will just be a different meta, and we will hopefully also contribute to a more balanced game.
It will not xD
What u gonna get is wild guesses on whats your opponent gonna go next time and guaranteed "surprise" 6 cav pushes last round.
We tried lifting limits for a few days on BL Pickups, the community couldn't endure more than 2 hours. Tournament stuff going to get an insane amount of curses and a lot of players (including myself) will drop the game.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
It will not xD
What u gonna get is wild guesses on whats your opponent gonna go next time and guaranteed "surprise" 6 cav pushes last round.
I don't think so, and even worse I think the devs would think that's good ("counters" etc). I think what will happen is a best set up will develop and most of the time people will play that, it will just be different from the current one. Probably 3 cav or something.
We tried lifting limits for a few days on BL Pickups, the community couldn't endure more than 2 hours. Tournament stuff going to get an insane amount of curses and a lot of players (including myself) will drop the game.
TBH, the scene has an unhealthy attitude towards this and had already decided it wasn't workable, so they likely just trolled and over-reacted.

Anyway, I agree it won't be as good as class limits, but to reiterate, cav are broken as it is and in the dev's POV it's solved, so what we gonna do?
 

Black_Corsair

Knight at Arms
WBNW
At least this will be some fresh tourney, and maybe some A team will get chance to come to top2 instead of usual RM/DM (well it would be hard anyways of course).

Cav spam is obvious, and the problem is that each map is comfortable for cavalry, because there is no maps like warband's Village with many spots for archers, which cavalry cant reach.
Some balance or map changes would have to be done of course. But still, imho, thats more interesting than current standard 2-4 or 2-3-1 scheme everyone playing.
 

Silvernj

Grandmaster Knight
Cav is strong not only because of the maps (tho its a part in its success) but also due to skirmish multiple lives mode. If you are bad at current meta you will be same bad at next meta, DM+RM played some non limit tournaments and still managed to slam everyone. Actually, RM got like 5 s tier cavs in its roster so its actually a boost for them.
Community is developing, we already see div taking at least 3rd place and successfully competing with RM/DM. Next season there will be more shuffles + possible vacant slot for another div A team (whee?)
I don’t get why you complain about stale meta if we are playing first season in this patch and actually this is the most diverse season in terms of team setups.
People not going to work as free labour testers for TW, we play this for some kind of fun, its TWs job to balance the game and their choice not to listen to us. If you want to kill the community - lift the limits.
 

Krisee

Recruit
Only thing I would like added is a limit on shock perhaps 2 would be best.
No limits will just be cav fights how boring...
 

DeathBG

Sergeant at Arms
As an infantry player I can't put myself through this torture. With current speed of cav compared to warband they are fast and can couch non-stop it will be a suicide. Not even gonna bother playing BEAST if we got no limits. Basically all people who play inf will turn into bait and meat shields, the moment you get into a melee fight 3 cavs will smack you and clap you ez.
No point suffering 1 season to make people realise the truth. Just look at BEAST Stats where cavs dominate the top spots.
 

TheBard ✂

Salt Knight
Master Knight
TBH, the scene has an unhealthy attitude towards this and had already decided it wasn't workable, so they likely just trolled and over-reacted.
No, that wasn't decided, the limits were lifted as an open attempt to check on the balance after the release of 1.6.1.
People were encouraged to stress test the current state of the game and it seemed to be so unplayable and unfun that they wanted the limits back. If the two closed maps such as Echerion or Xauna can be won without any infantry at all on the field, then it speaks a lot of the balance.

Anyway, I agree it won't be as good as class limits, but to reiterate, cav are broken as it is and in the dev's POV it's solved, so what we gonna do?
I have no idea if limitless gameplay is the solution to this, thats the initial reason I opened this thread to implore the swarm intelligence of our little community.

What frustrates me even more is the fact that I personally think we're not far away from the goal, the introduction of the cavalry breaker perks for example gave spears some use, before they were actually borderline useless.
 
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OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
No, that wasn't decided, the limits were lifted as an open attempt to check on the balance after the release of 1.6.1.
People were encouraged to stress test the current state of the game and it seemed to be so unplayable and unfun that they wanted the limits back. If the two closed maps such as Echerion or Xauna can be won without any infantry at all on the field, then it speaks a lot of the balance.
I've played in this scene, I know how people are. You tell a pickup there's no limits I can almost guarantee the team that ended up with less cav just gave up. I'm pretty sure 6 cav isn't the strongest build on Echerion - 3 cav 3 inf likely is superior if they play smart.
I have no idea if limitless gameplay is the solution to this, thats the initial reason I opened this thread to implore the swarm intelligence of our little community.

What frustrates me even more is the fact that I personally think we're not far away from the goal, the introduction of the cavalry breaker perks for example gave spears some use, before they were actually borderline useless.
Spears are still flawed and even bounce on full speed cav sometimes despite having 100% dmg bonus. Cav still have all the control over the engagement and spears are only a counter in that they punish cav mistakes - a good cav doesn't make that mistake. This is why it's a mistake to think of cav counters instead of focusing on changing cav itself.
 
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