[Discussion area] Horseback combat: weapon action arcs tweak & more.

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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
This discussion thread and suggestion platform is very much inspired by Silen's combat parameters tweak and the other Betalords, thanks for making it happen.

I have to start by saying that no, I was not a prominent player in the competitive warband scene, but I have played extensively in previous installments and I feel that Bannerlord is lacking something (among other things). In this thread I'm going to talk about the different weapon action arcs when riding, the camera scopes and the (re)introduction of the hybrid shield-block mechanic... among a few other things.

I'm going to be sharing threads of suggestions and talking about various modifications of my own; please don't perceive this as spam but as part of the discussion material. Let's get to it:

First I'd like you to watch this comparison video please:

Modified version (Hybrid blocking + nostalgia camera tweak + magic holsters (optional))


Action weapon arcs

The rider and its weapons have a range of action that the game measures in degrees. After having watched the video, I would like to share with you these small adjustments which remind me of to the Warband experience and would be greatly complemented by an adjustment of the swing arcs, just as OurGloriousLeader mentioned in his thread.

<def name="throwing_rider_rot_limit_left" val="120" />
<def name="throwing_rider_rot_limit_right" val="70" />
<def name="overswing_rider_look_down_limit" val="120" />
<def name="overswing_rider_rot_limit_left" val="100" />
<def name="overswing_rider_rot_limit_right" val="80" />
<def name="left_swing_rider_look_down_limit" val="-10" />
<def name="left_swing_rider_rot_limit_left" val="100" />
<def name="left_swing_rider_rot_limit_right" val="100" />
<def name="left_swing_polearm_rider_rot_limit_left" val="80" />
<def name="left_swing_polearm_rider_rot_limit_right" val="120" />
<def name="right_swing_rider_look_down_limit" val="-10" />
<def name="right_swing_rider_rot_limit_left" val="110" />
<def name="right_swing_rider_rot_limit_right" val="100" />
<def name="right_swing_polearm_rider_rot_limit_left" val="120" />
<def name="right_swing_polearm_rider_rot_limit_right" val="80" />
<def name="thrust_rider_look_down_limit" val="-10" />
<def name="upperthrust_rider_look_down_limit" val="-20" />
<def name="thrust_rider_rot_limit_left" val="120" />
<def name="thrust_rider_rot_limit_right" val="90" />
<def name="couched_lance_rider_look_down_limit" val="10" />
<def name="couched_lance_rider_rot_limit_left" val="48" />
<def name="couched_lance_rider_rot_limit_right" val="20" />
<def name="bow_rider_look_down_limit" val="-25" />
<def name="bow_rider_rot_limit_left" val="170" />
<def name="bow_rider_rot_limit_right" val="30" />
<def name="bow_reload_rider_rot_limit_left" val="90" />
<def name="bow_reload_rider_rot_limit_right" val="30" />
<def name="throw_rider_look_down_limit" val="-35" />

<def name="throwing_rider_rot_limit_left" val="130" />
<def name="throwing_rider_rot_limit_right" val="65" />
<def name="overswing_rider_look_down_limit" val="-25" />
<def name="overswing_rider_rot_limit_left" val="120" />
<def name="overswing_rider_rot_limit_right" val="90" />
<def name="left_swing_rider_look_down_limit" val="-25" />
<def name="left_swing_rider_rot_limit_left" val="90" />
<def name="left_swing_rider_rot_limit_right" val="75" />
<def name="left_swing_polearm_rider_rot_limit_left" val="0" />
<def name="left_swing_polearm_rider_rot_limit_right" val="90" />
<def name="right_swing_rider_look_down_limit" val="-25" />
<def name="right_swing_rider_rot_limit_left" val="75" />
<def name="right_swing_rider_rot_limit_right" val="90" />
<def name="right_swing_polearm_rider_rot_limit_left" val="90" />
<def name="right_swing_polearm_rider_rot_limit_right" val="0" />
<def name="thrust_rider_look_down_limit" val="-25" />
<def name="upperthrust_rider_look_down_limit" val="-25" />
<def name="thrust_rider_rot_limit_left" val="115" />
<def name="thrust_rider_rot_limit_right" val="75" />
<def name="couched_lance_rider_look_down_limit" val="10" />
<def name="couched_lance_rider_rot_limit_left" val="40" />
<def name="couched_lance_rider_rot_limit_right" val="30" />
<def name="bow_rider_look_down_limit" val="-15" />
<def name="bow_rider_rot_limit_left" val="170" />
<def name="bow_rider_rot_limit_right" val="30" />
<def name="bow_reload_rider_rot_limit_left" val="90" />
<def name="bow_reload_rider_rot_limit_right" val="30" />
<def name="throw_rider_look_down_limit" val="-25" />

combat_parameters.xml
Basically adjusting the thrust action cones with spear, rider tilt for side and vertical swings down. If you notice, the swing polearms are now penalised quite a lot, going for a much more conservative use, something I commented on previously here. I sincerely hope you feel like trying it (unfortunately only available in custom battle sp scenario / backup first "if so").

Camera views

Adding to Noudelle's list of inconsistences regarding the cameras, I think that both first person and third person views are too very different from what is offered in Warband.

Here is a comparison between warband and bannerlord:
tf5ef.jpg

I don't know what you think but in my eyes, in bannerlord the view is too high in third person (feedback about it) and in first person (feedback about it), it gives me the impression of suffocation because all the elements are too close to the foreground. That's why I felt the need to create this little tweak, which imho brings the warband gameplay experience closer to bannerlord.

Hybrid blocking
I haven't invented the wheel, I've just mixed the two types of blocking that Taleworlds offers in one. Some of you may have heard me mention it and I must say that this is just another need that I had to alleviate with another tweak; I'm talking about this. I think this approach would work very well in normal combat environments both on horseback and on foot. However where it can offer its full potential would be in siege environments.


Extra: lateral speed arrow effect in mounted archery.

In this thread, we talked about the effect of inherent speed on lateral translation, which in my opinion would elevate the user's skills to a higher level regarding mounted archery. Basically, less pew pew and more calculation (only side shoots - rest of projectiles as well).

This is a matter of personal perception. But, if you look at the bow aiming animation, you will see that the pose is straighter in the modified version (previous feedback about it). The only thing I have done is to move the animation from "on foot" to "mounted". In my eyes the third person and first person view is improved with this small adjustment.


All this stuff is focused towards MP, however I passionately believe that in SP it would work as well, both for the player and for the AI combat.

I don't want you to misunderstand me, I'm not saying "this is the way it should be", but rather I'd like to know what you think of all this stuff put on the table for discussion. Does this have a plausible place in Bannerlord officially or should it be relegated to a purely modding issue?
 
why taleworlds still didnt hired you as a side dev for MP lol, you even wrote a tweak lines for your ideas all that left for devs just to copy-paste it
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
why taleworlds still didnt hired you as a side dev for MP lol, you even wrote a tweak lines for your ideas all that left for devs just to copy-paste it
No man! :lol:

giphy.gif


I didn't write any code at all, I only modified a couple of small numbers in the xml files... there are people much more worthy than me :iamamoron: ... this is just the feedback that I can give in this regard. The devs do what they can with what they are told from above.😌
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
@Terco_Viejo the modified version looks so good! I truly hope they take note of these adjustments because such a small change can make a huge difference.
Thanks for the support my friend, it looks like this thread will go unnoticed :lol: .

I can't see any difference LMAO

Excluding the camera and shield blocking issue where at first glance there are quite noticeable differences imho 😅, it is true that at first glance the action arcs look the same; but they are not. Keep in mind that most of the arcs have been "slightly" adjusted. Unlike those, the vertical tilt defining ones and the polearm swing strike ones are where the effect is the most noticeable.

Take a look at these two videos.


In the one on the left (new for this update) I've set up a scenario where the camel is realistically sized. If you notice, you can see a much more open swing angle in Native, so the AI can hit "better" (voilá! a good camel troop on a camel that doesn't look like a donkey :iamamoron:) and the player has more margin of control for that kind of attacks.

In the one on the left (previously shared) you can see that in the modified version, the swing arc with the polearm is much more narrow, penalising the swing, giving this type of action a higher degree of mastery and skill required by the player.
 

Nodice83

Sergeant
WBWF&SNWVC
This discussion thread and suggestion platform is very much inspired by @Silen's combat parameters tweak and the other Betalords, thanks for making it happen.

I have to start by saying that no, I was not a prominent player in the competitive warband scene, but I have played extensively in previous installments and I feel that Bannerlord is lacking something (among other things). In this thread I'm going to talk about the different weapon action arcs when riding, the camera scopes and the (re)introduction of the hybrid shield-block mechanic... among a few other things.

I'm going to be sharing threads of suggestions and talking about various modifications of my own; please don't perceive this as spam but as part of the discussion material. Let's get to it:
I won't lie i am not able to spot all of the differences in shown similar moves, swing arcs both sides preform. But an overall impression on the native vs moded is that the latter looks more natural and pleasing to watch. I believe that any orthopedic surgeon would have a seizures looking on the left side of the movie. All those sprained joints and injuries...
 
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