Disappointing progress.

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I don't use formations. I do use basic tactics, to a certain degree. If you can get the enemy to attack you, wait for them so the battle is where you spawn. It keeps your troops more tightly bunched and enhances your advantage in battle. In fairly close battles where I have to attack them, I will periodically draw my troops back to pull them together. When you get a dozen troops following one deserter on one side and another dozen following a deserter on the other side, plus 1/2 your troops still on their way to the battle from spawn, you can take a lot of losses.
I use formations a lot. I used to play lots of total war so micro management of army manoeuvres is like second nature to me . I sometimes pull of some amazing victories against the odds. I look at the terrain and plan my attack. Every unit as its place and postion . I really do enjoy that. Sometimes you can just charge and win but in them battle i sim the fight.
 

Doofus

Veteran
Here's what I consider another problem...What does a governor do? Yes, I know it gives +1 loyalty if its the right culture, but what I mean is from a reality standpoint, what do they do? They can't fix family feuds, food shortages, needs for prisoners, extortion, etc in villages? They can't take care of hideouts in the general vicinity with 450 troops at their disposal? It seems to me that if you have a governor in a town or castle it should reduce the frequency of quests harmful to the loyalty of the holding. The % of the reduction could be based on their Steward level or something. I'm tired of going to war for 2 or 3 seasons and returning to find that even with a governor my town is close to rebelling (if I'm lucky). I don't generally mind a lot of the quests, but I don't have the time for them and shouldn't need to if I've assigned a competent governor.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
I use formations a lot. I used to play lots of total war so micro management of army manoeuvres is like second nature to me . I sometimes pull of some amazing victories against the odds. I look at the terrain and plan my attack. Every unit as its place and postion . I really do enjoy that. Sometimes you can just charge and win but in them battle i sim the fight.

Heh I enjoy the exact same thing - been like that since a kid, Id see a hill over a certain area and maybe rock croppings and id imagine how id use that tactically with an army. Using terrain, troop types, and weather and winning an unbeatable battle is whats best in Life
 

bonerstorm

Genghis Khan't
Sergeant
Is there even any content beside endless random balltes?
This
Autocalc should always be inferior and cause more casualties than actually playing the battle; it's a shortcut/speed run similar with Total War.
You should have better outcome playing the battle vs simulation.
The only odd thing/issue is this tendency for the high-tier troop be the singular death all the time and that's just a fault of how they did their calculations.
While I get where you're coming from, this pokes a sore spot for some of us who've been around since launch. Until the recent addition of donations to improve unit XP, grinding looters was the only safe way to level your troops. Then they realized that people were autobattling to grind unit XP, so they introduced a crippling XP penalty and vastly increased the lethality of autobattle.

So the end result was that the ideal style of play would be to start a zillion easy battles and, in each one, set your units to charge then go make a sandwich IRL.

It was tedious grind in a game already lousy with tedious grind, because the way combat/recruitment works railroads us into a very boring style of play where we almost ONLY fight battles that we're destined to win.

IDK about the current version, but tactics have degraded terribly since Warband - where for instance using shieldwall made your units do virtually no damage and loose formation was always the best because of weapon clipping issues. I almost stopped playing entirely because of that bull**** on principle.
By time you're a vassal, there should be ways (skills, fief, money, influence, relations, companions) that you can acquire a decent starter pack of troops, already leveled up, every single time you wipe and a sustainable flow of them to replace the losses you take while campaigning. It would eliminate the literally pointless grind of having to stroll obsessively around the map, stripping every village you come across of appropriate troop types, then finangling ways of pinning large groups of looters in place in order to level. It is only grind we'd be losing: nothing interesting will ever happen, there are no decisions to be made and it takes IRL time. Just give decent troops.

Then there would be absolutely ZERO reason to even have these ****ty looters after the very start of the game and we can stop seeing complaints made by people who feel the need to obsessively grind them to level up all 400+ of their T6 Fashion Plates before they feel comfortable doing anything else.
Please tell me that the game has truly advanced to this point.

The last time I played, unmodded BL required - even with relevant leadership perks - months or years to level up recruits. I had to do a tweaks mod to get to my personal benchmark, which was IIRC 2 weeks for a seasoned general to turn a stack of fresh recruits into T2 units.
I think at this point it's rather obvious what happened: Bannerlord development was going absolutely nowhere and they decided to just deliver the minimum viable product they could get away with and move on to something else. It's just sad because this game could've been so much more but I guess for newcomers it's a pretty decent game.
That doesn't explain the continued feature development long past the release schedule. SOMEBODY has to be aware that this is an unfinished product and believes that additional work will fix the problem.
Well yea..but RP.
+1 to this

One of the most frustrating things about this game still - and I understand I'm mostly alone here - is the fact that RP traits do virtually nothing except harm your persuasion checks for not having them and gold ones are virtually impossible to get in normal play.

Specifically valor is nigh-impossible to get if you're playing on a realistic difficulty and aren't abusing broken mechanics.
Been playing this game from time to time from the date of release. When released, it was simply a piece of buggy trash-code not even worthy of downloading it from torrent trackers. Now it has many more fun aspects (props to devs) but the game core is flawed overall.
I agree with pretty much everything you said.
Heh I enjoy the exact same thing - been like that since a kid, Id see a hill over a certain area and maybe rock croppings and id imagine how id use that tactically with an army. Using terrain, troop types, and weather and winning an unbeatable battle is whats best in Life
But @RozBritanicus and @froggyluv does any of that junk actually work?

The last I checked formations and such were all bugged such that Loose formation is the only thing that produces any positive effects.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
But @RozBritanicus and @froggyluv does any of that junk actually work?

The last I checked formations and such were all bugged such that Loose formation is the only thing that produces any positive effects.

Oh no I was just agreeing with that sentiment -no I dont think ANY of that works ingame -thats always been part of my grief
 
Oh no I was just agreeing with that sentiment -no I dont think ANY of that works ingame -thats always been part of my grief
Works for me Front line shield wall second archers archers the on the left wind i have a skirmish group mixed troop but mostly two handed then last is cav. Some time if a large cav attack i will have shield wall and close behind a spear brace it wrecks them. I use other formations too. I do well with my tactics and also check the land scape before battle to look for an advantage ( once i lined all my archers on a cliff edge and when the cav charged i set the archers to space out formation lots of cav went over to edge lol i sent in the skirmishers to help because my shield wall was fighting troops. So formations do work but yeah maybe they need some fixing ,I don't know because they work for me. Also your captain of each troop matters a lot too. As for 0 F3 i never do it , if the battles easy i sim it.
 
As far as tactics go, I usually like to set my archers up in a line, with infantry in a line behind them. I delegate horse archer command so that they circle and shoot. Then I tell the cavalry to follow me, and I just run through the enemy infantry until they march towards my archers. When they get close enough, I tell my infantry to charge.
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
Works for me Front line shield wall second archers archers the on the left wind i have a skirmish group mixed troop but mostly two handed then last is cav. Some time if a large cav attack i will have shield wall and close behind a spear brace it wrecks them. I use other formations too. I do well with my tactics and also check the land scape before battle to look for an advantage ( once i lined all my archers on a cliff edge and when the cav charged i set the archers to space out formation lots of cav went over to edge lol i sent in the skirmishers to help because my shield wall was fighting troops. So formations do work but yeah maybe they need some fixing ,I don't know because they work for me. Also your captain of each troop matters a lot too. As for 0 F3 i never do it , if the battles easy i sim it.

Well thats good to hear -last time I played Melee Cav were ineffective at charges and Archers were way overpowered with bows and being too good at standard melee. Hard to enforce real tactics into those problem areas
 
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bonerstorm

Genghis Khan't
Sergeant
As far as tactics go, I usually like to set my archers up in a line, with infantry in a line behind them. I delegate horse archer command so that they circle and shoot. Then I tell the cavalry to follow me, and I just run through the enemy infantry until they march towards my archers. When they get close enough, I tell my infantry to charge.
Works for me Front line shield wall second archers archers the on the left wind i have a skirmish group mixed troop but mostly two handed then last is cav. Some time if a large cav attack i will have shield wall and close behind a spear brace it wrecks them. I use other formations too. I do well with my tactics and also check the land scape before battle to look for an advantage ( once i lined all my archers on a cliff edge and when the cav charged i set the archers to space out formation lots of cav went over to edge lol i sent in the skirmishers to help because my shield wall was fighting troops. So formations do work but yeah maybe they need some fixing ,I don't know because they work for me. Also your captain of each troop matters a lot too. As for 0 F3 i never do it , if the battles easy i sim it.
Well yeah this is good to hear but - with respect - I won't believe it without testing to back it up.

To clarify what I was saying before: testing from previous releases proved that infantry always ALWAYS performs better in Loose formation because their weapons won't clip into each other while shieldwall doesn't improve survivability but reduces their damage potential by like 80%.

It's good to hear that horse archers circle and shoot because - if you're not aware - the devs literally said out loud that they intentionally nerfed the HA AI to sometimes charge into melee and die because they were too OP. They also made the infantry AI to quote "silly" because it "wasn't fun" for spearmen to destroy cavalry charges.

Just remembering this stuff gives me a ****ing rage aneurysm. The incoherent dev philosophy of this game over the years has been so terrible.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Please tell me that the game has truly advanced to this point.

The last time I played, unmodded BL required - even with relevant leadership perks - months or years to level up recruits. I had to do a tweaks mod to get to my personal benchmark, which was IIRC 2 weeks for a seasoned general to turn a stack of fresh recruits into T2 units.
You can just convert weapons/armor into troop XP now.

I totally forgot about the perk when I posted that. They did nerf it for some reason, but whatever. It is still much faster.
 

five bucks

Knight at Arms
Well thats good to hear -last time I played Melee Cav were ineffective at charges and Archers were way overpowered with bows and being too good at standard melee. Hard to enforce real tactics into those problem areas
In 1.8, Melee Cav are still very bad at aiming their actual weapons, but they knock over enemies in the charge in a way that is very satisfying to see, and almost perfect. In fact, it's slightly overtuned - the horses should get slowed down a little bit more by colliding with infantry and it would be perfect.

Archers are still way overpowered with bows, as well as usually having quite good armor and good enough melee skills to get kills.

The armor changes in 1.8 made melee weapon damage good against armor, but they didn't fix arrow damage against armor.
 
In 1.8, Melee Cav are still very bad at aiming their actual weapons, but they knock over enemies in the charge in a way that is very satisfying to see, and almost perfect. In fact, it's slightly overtuned - the horses should get slowed down a little bit more by colliding with infantry and it would be perfect.

Archers are still way overpowered with bows, as well as usually having quite good armor and good enough melee skills to get kills.

The armor changes in 1.8 made melee weapon damage good against armor, but they didn't fix arrow damage against armor.
When using the Realistic Battle AI + Combat modules, higher tier armor and shields have much more impact on the field. The cavalry will slow down, and be in a dangerous area if charging at a fully armored line. Arrows don't do as much damage against shields and armor.

But it's still satisfying to continously run through them with a large cavalry charge until they're weak enough for my troops to goto work.
 

Doofus

Veteran
Unless you get wiped I don't really have problems getting good units. I keep 1 or 2 prisoners of each type I like and recruit from there. Usually I'll lose 2-5 units in a decent sized battle and I can recruit those easy enough. I generally get more level-ups than deaths.

I have a question that most of you are probably going to feel is dumb though. If I'm the commander of the army, don't all my bonuses apply to all the troops in my army? I always thought it did. But if my bonuses apply to all my troops, why does it list me as a possible unit leader (archers, cavalry, etc)? Isn't it best to use another lord or even a companion as unit leader instead of myself?
 

bonerstorm

Genghis Khan't
Sergeant
Unless you get wiped I don't really have problems getting good units. I keep 1 or 2 prisoners of each type I like and recruit from there. Usually I'll lose 2-5 units in a decent sized battle and I can recruit those easy enough. I generally get more level-ups than deaths.

I have a question that most of you are probably going to feel is dumb though. If I'm the commander of the army, don't all my bonuses apply to all the troops in my army? I always thought it did. But if my bonuses apply to all my troops, why does it list me as a possible unit leader (archers, cavalry, etc)? Isn't it best to use another lord or even a companion as unit leader instead of myself?
I'm pretty sure all of your captain bonuses only apply to your own detachment. Unclear if it applies to all your party outside of mass combat. Sucks to suck, man.
 

Doofus

Veteran
So basically being a commander with good stats pretty much does nothing for your troops with the exception of a few small perks.
 


traits

  • This is what i would do with the traits off the top of my head, here goes
  • Cerebral (Calculating 2) Add skill Teachers to the game that add a small amount of exp to the skill after certain amount of Teachers you get this trait (this would help an hire after your main dies) costs gold and influence
  • Calculating (Calculating 1)Add skill books to the game that add a small amount of exp to the skill after a certain amount of books you get this trait. (this would help an hire after your main dies) this would cost gold.
  • Impulsive (Calculating -1) steal books or threaten teachers to get skills. you get this trait.
  • Munificent (Generosity 2) you have given over a miilion gold away to help others . greatly increase chance of support and villages relations always high.
  • Generous (Generosity 1) You give money to the poor and other nobles when asked for help . This would increase the chance of support.
  • Closefisted (Generosity -1) when asked you never give money aid to anyone. maybe a slight gold boost per month.
  • Honorable (Honor 2) you have reached a point where the king of you clan trust you so much influence cost is reduced to single numbers for anything in the faction Armies you lead them laws you make them. he will very marry his daughter/son to you. if your king no one will defect from your faction. Unless they are Deceitful
  • Honest (Honor 1) you always honor your quests and use emissaries to increase you clan relations with other clan this would cost influence and gold. I questioned your always honest.
  • Devious (Honor -1) you take money never complete quests lol. you can hire spies to slander other lords. lowering there power and influence. making harder for them buy increasing influence costs.
  • Deceitful (Honor -2) you now have access to assassins ( it cost influence and lots of gold ) this would work like this for the player our you enter a village or city you enter a scene just out side those places and fight for you life ( very high increased death chance ) it would place out like the last round in the arena battle one v one . if you win you have a small chance to find out who sent them and you can tell the king. this could lead to a duel with the person who hired them unless they have enough influence and gold you bribe the judge.
  • Compassionate (Mercy 2) you have let all captives go you have never taken a prisoner. World relation bonus with every one you talk too . 500 releases.
  • Merciful (Mercy 1) you let captives go after so many you get this trait.
  • Cruel (Mercy -1) you punish ( torcher) captives adding a face scar . you can take there gear. after so many you get this trait.
  • Sadistic (Mercy -2) you can now execute your captives or punish them.
  • Fearless (Valor 2) you have won 100 duels and now you can offer duels to other enemy nobles.
  • Daring (Valor 1) You fight battles when out numbered and fight duels ( duels have increased chance of death ) after so many you get this trait.
  • Cautious (Valor -1) you always pay for freedom for yourself and other clan members never try to escape or do a prison break . you back down from every offer of a duel. after soon many you get this trait ( coward ).
That's off the top of my head took 30mins and uses gold and influence. also the npc's could use these rules , more things would be happening in the world of calradia then deaths and pregnancys and would add fun to the game as you try and achieve these traits that matter. As it stands traits are rubbish pointless fancy rapping paper.
 

bonerstorm

Genghis Khan't
Sergeant

traits

  • This is what i would do with the traits off the top of my head, here goes
  • Cerebral (Calculating 2) Add skill Teachers to the game that add a small amount of exp to the skill after certain amount of Teachers you get this trait (this would help an hire after your main dies) costs gold and influence
  • Calculating (Calculating 1)Add skill books to the game that add a small amount of exp to the skill after a certain amount of books you get this trait. (this would help an hire after your main dies) this would cost gold.
  • Impulsive (Calculating -1) steal books or threaten teachers to get skills. you get this trait.
  • Munificent (Generosity 2) you have given over a miilion gold away to help others . greatly increase chance of support and villages relations always high.
  • Generous (Generosity 1) You give money to the poor and other nobles when asked for help . This would increase the chance of support.
  • Closefisted (Generosity -1) when asked you never give money aid to anyone. maybe a slight gold boost per month.
  • Honorable (Honor 2) you have reached a point where the king of you clan trust you so much influence cost is reduced to single numbers for anything in the faction Armies you lead them laws you make them. he will very marry his daughter/son to you. if your king no one will defect from your faction. Unless they are Deceitful
  • Honest (Honor 1) you always honor your quests and use emissaries to increase you clan relations with other clan this would cost influence and gold. I questioned your always honest.
  • Devious (Honor -1) you take money never complete quests lol. you can hire spies to slander other lords. lowering there power and influence. making harder for them buy increasing influence costs.
  • Deceitful (Honor -2) you now have access to assassins ( it cost influence and lots of gold ) this would work like this for the player our you enter a village or city you enter a scene just out side those places and fight for you life ( very high increased death chance ) it would place out like the last round in the arena battle one v one . if you win you have a small chance to find out who sent them and you can tell the king. this could lead to a duel with the person who hired them unless they have enough influence and gold you bribe the judge.
  • Compassionate (Mercy 2) you have let all captives go you have never taken a prisoner. World relation bonus with every one you talk too . 500 releases.
  • Merciful (Mercy 1) you let captives go after so many you get this trait.
  • Cruel (Mercy -1) you punish ( torcher) captives adding a face scar . you can take there gear. after so many you get this trait.
  • Sadistic (Mercy -2) you can now execute your captives or punish them.
  • Fearless (Valor 2) you have won 100 duels and now you can offer duels to other enemy nobles.
  • Daring (Valor 1) You fight battles when out numbered and fight duels ( duels have increased chance of death ) after so many you get this trait.
  • Cautious (Valor -1) you always pay for freedom for yourself and other clan members never try to escape or do a prison break . you back down from every offer of a duel. after soon many you get this trait ( coward ).
That's off the top of my head took 30mins and uses gold and influence. also the npc's could use these rules , more things would be happening in the world of calradia then deaths and pregnancys and would add fun to the game as you try and achieve these traits that matter. As it stands traits are rubbish pointless fancy rapping paper.
LOL that's very extensive but I'd just like the normal **** to work the way it implies that it should.

Cruel lords should raid villages. Merciful lords should spare towns.

Dishonorable lords should execute captured lords AND get executed by non-dishonorable lords. Honorable lords should let more people go without capturing them "Grant me the honors of war and do yourself credit." Honorable lords should be MUCH more difficult to convince to switch sides and vice versa (like it was in MB!!!).

Valorous lords should fight even when outnumbered. Cowardly lords should surrender with their armies intact. Hell... Lords should surrender EVER.

Generous lords should trade more fairly and be more resistant to bribery. Greedy lords should trade unfairly and be easier to persuade to your faction with money.

Emotional lords should double their relation gain or loss... calculating lords should halve it.

It's really sad that even basic **** like this doesn't exist in BL.
 

Danny5

Squire
LOL that's very extensive but I'd just like the normal **** to work the way it implies that it should.

Cruel lords should raid villages. Merciful lords should spare towns.

Dishonorable lords should execute captured lords AND get executed by non-dishonorable lords. Honorable lords should let more people go without capturing them "Grant me the honors of war and do yourself credit." Honorable lords should be MUCH more difficult to convince to switch sides and vice versa (like it was in MB!!!).

Valorous lords should fight even when outnumbered. Cowardly lords should surrender with their armies intact. Hell... Lords should surrender EVER.

Generous lords should trade more fairly and be more resistant to bribery. Greedy lords should trade unfairly and be easier to persuade to your faction with money.

Emotional lords should double their relation gain or loss... calculating lords should halve it.

It's really sad that even basic **** like this doesn't exist in BL.
Then you've got the pleasure lords...once captured, you'll have the time of your life
 

froggyluv

Grandmaster Knight
NW
LOL that's very extensive but I'd just like the normal **** to work the way it implies that it should.

Cruel lords should raid villages. Merciful lords should spare towns.

Dishonorable lords should execute captured lords AND get executed by non-dishonorable lords. Honorable lords should let more people go without capturing them "Grant me the honors of war and do yourself credit." Honorable lords should be MUCH more difficult to convince to switch sides and vice versa (like it was in MB!!!).

Valorous lords should fight even when outnumbered. Cowardly lords should surrender with their armies intact. Hell... Lords should surrender EVER.

Generous lords should trade more fairly and be more resistant to bribery. Greedy lords should trade unfairly and be easier to persuade to your faction with money.

Emotional lords should double their relation gain or loss... calculating lords should halve it.

It's really sad that even basic **** like this doesn't exist in BL.

So much this ^^^

Id be all over this game if it did half this
 
LOL that's very extensive but I'd just like the normal **** to work the way it implies that it should.

Cruel lords should raid villages. Merciful lords should spare towns.

Dishonorable lords should execute captured lords AND get executed by non-dishonorable lords. Honorable lords should let more people go without capturing them "Grant me the honors of war and do yourself credit." Honorable lords should be MUCH more difficult to convince to switch sides and vice versa (like it was in MB!!!).

Valorous lords should fight even when outnumbered. Cowardly lords should surrender with their armies intact. Hell... Lords should surrender EVER.

Generous lords should trade more fairly and be more resistant to bribery. Greedy lords should trade unfairly and be easier to persuade to your faction with money.

Emotional lords should double their relation gain or loss... calculating lords should halve it.

It's really sad that even basic **** like this doesn't exist in BL.
LOL i would be happy with with your version too. I also want them to work. Have the ncp's work. But also i would like influence to be used for more than armies. Plus have ncp's not to vote clump making voting pointless.
 
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