Disappointed with Siege

[Tama]

Suggestion version of this thread:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/siege-mission-gamemode.407606/

I'm disappointed with:

1. If you take away all the walls and siege equipment, all you have left is a field battle, in terms of mechanics.
2. Enemy reinforcements spawn just behind the gatehouse, just like in warband.
3. Once you get over the walls and all your soldiers are inside, basically all you do is sit on top of this spawn point and slash until there are no enemies left to spawn.

My Suggestions:

1. Siege should be about capturing battlements, rather than killing everything that spawns.
2. Put flags on battlements and on towers that can be captured, which triggers enemies to organize a counter-attack to recapture lost battlement.
3. Spawn enemy reinforcements inside towers and/or deep in town.
4. Stop spawning in enemy reinforcements if only 1 or 2 capture points left. Rout defenders, or have them retreat to barricaded streets.
5. Don't try to spawn all the defenders during the battle, it's unnecessary. When attackers capture everything, all the remaining defenders can become prisoner.
   

 

[paladinx333]

Soldiers should not be spawning into locations already occupied by enemy troops. I think some of this is due to the limited intelligence of the siege AI.

 

[Wildthorne]

Tama got a point here. Sieges are kindly overlooked, it is so bareboned that it is almost no fun to play, except the initial phase until you brake the gate and reach the walls.

 

[Nakhum]

Defending a siege is also kind of broken.
The overall lack of commandability makes for some fairly boring sieges all in all.
Can't really navigate your archers around in a meaningful way to actually use the battlements effectively, since they refuse to shoot when they bunch up too much or actually refuse to spread out on the walls meaningfully.

On the other hand if you are up against a sizeable number of archers so that they actually are able to defend somewhat, the fact that attacking troops just slowly walk up to the castle in a huge bunch makes them very, very easy targets and its just dumb. I'd like it if shield troops actually defended the ram / siege tower in a half circle/box, non-shield troops would hang back in reserve. Maybe also have some archers come up to the ramps / ladders as soon as they are placed to give some covering fire. Just overall make the AI a little more smart and adapt to whats happening.

 

[memopek]

My biggest issue with sieges, aside from bad respawns for defenders, is that a city siege never continues into a city, where the streets are barricaded and additional troops come from the nearby houses.

I think capturing walls should be the main objective, but the goal should be to capture the whole town.

Also for bad respawns, this goes for field battles too: I think there should be breaks between battles where the AI reevaluates its options. It does not have to back down into a menu but more like breaks between attacks. In fact, if they're taking too many loses they should be able to decide to back down, and strike a deal with the enemy at some instances. For example: If town militia is not happy with their own faction's lords(if they were recently captured or smth), they should back down easier. This should give both sides time to reposition themselves so they don't end up in each others respawns.

 

[Tanrıkut]

My Suggestions:

1. Siege should be about capturing battlements, rather than killing everything that spawns.
2. Put flags on battlements and on towers that can be captured, which triggers enemies to organize a counter-attack to recapture lost battlement.
3. Spawn enemy reinforcements inside towers and/or deep in town

.

No, please no. I don't want another stupid capture the flag for points mechanic in a game that I like. Fighting to death is more logical than losing a war just because some guy stepped into some stupid building nobody cares

 

[Tama]

No, please no. I don't want another stupid capture the flag for points mechanic in a game that I like. Fighting to death is more logical than losing a war just because some guy stepped into some stupid building nobody cares

That's just my suggestion, do you have another suggestion? Also it's not for points, it's literally about capturing the walls, and defender AI reacting to that.

 

[left2live]

No, please no. I don't want another stupid capture the flag for points mechanic in a game that I like. Fighting to death is more logical than losing a war just because some guy stepped into some stupid building nobody cares

Agree no mainstream capture the flag, but a smarter AI. Also keep in mind EA i bet they will change sieges to the better since the trebs, balistas and catapults are useless as an attacker since you have no idea where you will hit!

 

[left2live]

That's just my suggestion, do you have another suggestion? Also it's not for points, it's literally about capturing the walls, and defender AI reacting to that.

I would say like 2-3 stages like the previous games, stage 1 is the walls stage 2 the streets stage 3 the keep but with more troops not like 3-6 in total as its in the previous games.
The battles will last longer and you get a chanse to see more of the city

 

[Ford Perfect]

Sieges are...definitely underwhelming, they end and it feels like they have just begun.
We absolutely need the three stages at last,and a smarter Ai, half of the troops defending are practically useless

 

[xuan]

I'm disappointed with:

1. If you take away all the walls and siege equipment, all you have left is a field battle, in terms of mechanics.
2. Enemy reinforcements spawn just behind the gatehouse, just like in warband.
3. Once you get over the walls and all your soldiers are inside, basically all you do is sit on top of this spawn point and slash until there are no enemies left to spawn.

My Suggestions:

1. Siege should be about capturing battlements, rather than killing everything that spawns.
2. Put flags on battlements and on towers that can be captured, which triggers enemies to organize a counter-attack to recapture lost battlement.
3. Spawn enemy reinforcements inside towers and/or deep in town.
4. Stop spawning in enemy reinforcements if only 1 or 2 capture points left. Rout defenders, or have them retreat to barricaded streets.
5. Don't try to spawn all the defenders during the battle, it's unnecessary. When attackers capture everything, all the remaining defenders can become prisoner.

Only agree to the third point, there should be some fortresses in the city, like halls

 

[jipped]

Placement, starting points and a.i adjustments would change everything.

 

[Tama]

It would be great if after a point, defenders just gave up on the walls and retreated to streets and a second phase of the battle begins.

In field battles, sometimes the AI retreats closer to their spawn point and regroups. Same thing can be used to retreat into the streets during siege I think.

Maybe the defenders can push back the attackers or the attackers might surround the inner keep. Maybe the defenders are expecting Gandalf to arrive at the appointed hour or something.

There could be a second parley at this point, defenders can choose to surrender, or not.

One can hope.

 

[left2live]

Sieges are...definitely underwhelming, they end and it feels like they have just begun.
We absolutely need the three stages at last,and a smarter Ai, half of the troops defending are practically useless

its still fun to watch the siege towers move tho, but the towers need protection for the ones pushing it, they are just siting ducks

 

[svennd]

I agree, i had a few sieges where the defenders started running towards a building and disappeared ... that should not be possible either; another funny thing was that the castle door was broken and the defenders where just standing there waiting to be circled by my troops, and being attacked from all sides ...

On the other hand, I seen defenders push back the ladders my troops where putting against the walls, I was very impressed by that

 

[Mppqlmd]

I'm having at blast at defending sieges, because the options you have are so fun to play with. Shooting with a scorpion, throwing rocks and explosives, unlimited ammo for bows, etc.

My problem is : the IA never uses those, and it definitely should.

 

[Aho]

I'm disappointed with:

1. If you take away all the walls and siege equipment, all you have left is a field battle, in terms of mechanics.
2. Enemy reinforcements spawn just behind the gatehouse, just like in warband.
3. Once you get over the walls and all your soldiers are inside, basically all you do is sit on top of this spawn point and slash until there are no enemies left to spawn.

My Suggestions:

1. Siege should be about capturing battlements, rather than killing everything that spawns.
2. Put flags on battlements and on towers that can be captured, which triggers enemies to organize a counter-attack to recapture lost battlement.
3. Spawn enemy reinforcements inside towers and/or deep in town.
4. Stop spawning in enemy reinforcements if only 1 or 2 capture points left. Rout defenders, or have them retreat to barricaded streets.
5. Don't try to spawn all the defenders during the battle, it's unnecessary. When attackers capture everything, all the remaining defenders can become prisoner.

Just like MP Siege-mode. This would be just great. What do you think?

 

[kanzy]

I think there will be more to sieges as the EA progress, I think we will see an inner keep fight just like in warband since the retreating troops run inside the keep/castle which makes for an interesting encounter in the second phase, barter with them to surrender or break in the doors and fight.