In Progress Disappearance of people (NPC's)

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Summary: I have noticed that while I play the game npcs gradually disappear from the world, accompanied by the message "(Name) was lost". It's It's about 2-5 people disappear every day, and the strangest thing is that they are not listed as dead or alive after they lost: they completely disappear from the game, they are not even in the encyclopedia anymore. In the end some of the villages become empty of any important npcs.

How to Reproduce: Just play the game. Wait in town, or go somewhere on the global map. In my case it's start happened by day 183, after update my game from 1.4.3 to 1.5

Quest/Settlement Name (if related): It's everywhere

Media (Screenshots & Video):
y68CXJk.jpg

x415Q4X.jpg

Version: 1.5 (Right after update)
Installed community-made modifications: Nope


Here is my save: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E5UEsd3m2XflO1zsSkDpSYE0BYaTKxKp/view?usp=sharing


P.S. unfortunately, I don't have a screenshots of "dead villages" at the moment, but will add them later if needed.
 
Btw I started a new game today and npcs start missing at once

In main game I noticed that disappearing of npcs is slows down over time, but anyway, at least 1 person will "lost" every few days
 
I’m not totally sure but I think it’s a game feature that randomly kills off notables and then slowly replaces them. I guess this is to ensure you always have a reason to do quests for them etc.
 
They start to respawn after a week or so if they dont get replaced right away in my experience. They just need to fix the Minor Factions not getting new members or switching leaders when they die of old age
 
I have notables in villages that disappear, it's not likely they died in a war ... But on the other hand it start to break the game even more. Recruiting was already a pain as keeping reputation and power of a noble high to recruit elite troop was time consuming and really boring, but now i just saw the notable i was pampering vanish and be replaced by a new one with no power and a reputation reset to default.
 
I have notables in villages that disappear, it's not likely they died in a war ... But on the other hand it start to break the game even more. Recruiting was already a pain as keeping reputation and power of a noble high to recruit elite troop was time consuming and really boring, but now i just saw the notable i was pampering vanish and be replaced by a new one with no power and a reputation reset to default.
Notables under 100 power will start to roll everyday on whether or not they will be kicked out from the village and replaced by a new notable. If you can find an instance where this happens to one above 100 power then it is likely a bug, but from the sounds of it your situation was intentional and not a bug. Sorry man
 
Like i said i was pampering him. He was producing elite troops, so it mean he was above 200 power, and have never any issues on as i was solving it as soon as it was spotted (most of the time give him 32 prisoners, easy and fast to solve when you always have 60 looters in your roaster.) So unless he had a massive power loss for no reason, he was kicked with a high power. But in both cases this is absurd.

On the other side i have a town with a gang leader at -256 powers (WTF?) and he is there for quite sometime now. I even have 37 relation with him ... So i really don't think this is working well.
 
Like i said i was pampering him. He was producing elite troops, so it mean he was above 200 power, and have never any issues on as i was solving it as soon as it was spotted (most of the time give him 32 prisoners, easy and fast to solve when you always have 60 looters in your roaster.) So unless he had a massive power loss for no reason, he was kicked with a high power. But in both cases this is absurd.

On the other side i have a town with a gang leader at -256 powers (WTF?) and he is there for quite sometime now. I even have 37 relation with him ... So i really don't think this is working well.
See that sounds like a bug, can you try and provide them with a save file of maybe before and after this notable disappeared? Upload them here http://upload.taleworlds.com:8080/ , in the description box put your forum name and link this post so they can easily identify it.
 
Nope i can't i don't have saves before, but i looked closely at what is happening and the power of all my notables slowly drops over time (except in towns where it seem stable or slightly grows over time when they have no issues).

This leads to really stupid things like having notables in villages offering Heavy Horsmen (t4 elite empire troop) with actually 120 powers. The natural cycle of the game currently is :
1 - A notable pop with random power
2 - If he have more than 200 he produce Elite troops
3 - His power drops continuously and till the point he can only produce crappy troops
4 - He his deleted, back to 1.

This is pretty annoying and someone reported the same issue in another post of this forum. Something was screwed with how power evolves over time and it's really destroying the game. I already think having issues removing power was a non sense (Try the escort caravan quest, time you complete it the notable have lost 15 powers for a solved issue ... And it takes sometime forever to solve of uninteresting following a caravan all over the map) but now as power drops in villages even without issues ...
 
Well i was aware of most of this mechanics except the daily decay/growth. I will have to look at this more closely but anyway if it's not a bug, it's something really poorly balanced in the current state cause i never had issues recruiting in Bannerlord before 1.5 and now with the 2 last patches i could never get a single lord to produce elite troops regularly.
I mean, when one does it's only for a short time and then he is replaced or slack around 130 power and my game turn into Peasant war simulator. The other main issue is that NPCs are constantly at war and recruit everything they could, so the chance to have recruits turn into viglia is severely impaired. It wasn't a big deal before, cause you could still recruit many, but seriously in this game i can only recruit elite troops from the quest "Extortion from deserter".

So i'll double check that but most likely not a bug ... But definitely something to fix anyway.
 
Well i was aware of most of this mechanics except the daily decay/growth. I will have to look at this more closely but anyway if it's not a bug, it's something really poorly balanced in the current state cause i never had issues recruiting in Bannerlord before 1.5 and now with the 2 last patches i could never get a single lord to produce elite troops regularly.
I mean, when one does it's only for a short time and then he is replaced or slack around 130 power and my game turn into Peasant war simulator. The other main issue is that NPCs are constantly at war and recruit everything they could, so the chance to have recruits turn into viglia is severely impaired. It wasn't a big deal before, cause you could still recruit many, but seriously in this game i can only recruit elite troops from the quest "Extortion from deserter".

So i'll double check that but most likely not a bug ... But definitely something to fix anyway.
Good news for you, war/peace times are significantly improved in the most recent 1.5.1 hotfix compared to 1.5.0. Take a look at this thread for more on that https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/diplomacy-developments.429850/ . Quote below shows the war/peace numbers comparing the patches.

Sorry been a bit busy. Here is a table that compares the 3 patches worth of data mexxico provided.

Some quick take aways from the upcoming hotfix:
  • Khuzait still a heavy aggressor declaring war 16-4, Aserai still didn't declare war on Khuzait. That might be something to look at why they wont fight, essentially having an alliance.
  • I think this is the sweet spot we are looking for as far as war declarations, seems to be reduced by about around 30% based on my estimate
  • The war length has been significantly improved, over 50% of wars longer than a season compared to 37%! Also nice to see Month long wars significantly reduced from 21% to 9% of wars.

Patch1.5.01.5.1 beta1.5.1 upcoming hotfix
Ending Year109310911093
War/Peace Declarations139234 (~292 estimate for 1093)213
Avg. Declaration per year142921
Total Wars75119 (~150 estimate for 1093)109
Avg Wars per year71510.9
Avg Active Wars7.44.04.4
Avg. War Length (days)862334
Min War Length (days)000
Max War Length (days)34177189
War Negotiations (0-1 days)1139
Wars Shorter Than a Month (2-7 days)22510
Wars Shorter Than a Season (8-21 days)73735
Wars between a Season and a Year (22 - 84 days)394448
Wars longer than a Year (84+ days)2607
% Wars Negotiations1%11%8%
% Wars shorter than a Month3%21%9%
% Wars shorter than a Season9%31%32%
% Wars between a Season and a Year52%37%44%
% Wars longer than a Year35%0%6%
Avg. Daily Tribute$ 251$ 1,755$ 1,228
Min Daily$ -$ -$ -
Max Daily$ 565$ 7,910$ 4,720

Finally updated, i'll have some graphs for 1.5.1 hotfix eventually as well and bring in the 1.5.1 beta graphs from earlier for easy comparison.
 
Alright, so i investigated a bit more and went into some coding myself to debug the mess. I followed point by point what was said in the topic about power gain/loss and something caught my attention. All the supporter things seem to be completely bugged and most likely why nothing go well in those new versions.

When you point at the tool tip you can see many notables support nobody at all, i was wondering if it was because it was nobody or it was the player clan and then wasn't displayed.
So i made a small alteration in my mod to display really who supports who.
sKLjRz7.png

See, really simple code.

So it turn that when you do not see who they support, that mean they support nobody, and to my surprise they are a huge majority.
My main city Rotae :
UEsY7tI.jpg

Nobody support my clan, 2 support nobody and all the others supports enemies ...

But in fact Rotae isn't really the biggest issue as i went to some cities where 100% of the notables supports nobody at all, and it's the same for villages. in fact i had to check a dozen of village to see a single notable supporting someone as most of the time they supports nobody at all.
And as it's stated in the post you linked me, this have a really high impact on power.

zn4lyAl.jpg

This is the village i was recruiting my elite troops and yeah, Dorion do not support anybody at all either, and this is the one that have been replaced. Garitops that haven't been replaced yet still supports an enemy clan thought.


How is this supporter thing managed? Is it even managed at all? Cause i remember a few version back that in towns every notables actually supporting a clan, or at least a large majority were. Now it's the perfect opposite, at least in my game.
 
Alright, so i investigated a bit more and went into some coding myself to debug the mess. I followed point by point what was said in the topic about power gain/loss and something caught my attention. All the supporter things seem to be completely bugged and most likely why nothing go well in those new versions.

When you point at the tool tip you can see many notables support nobody at all, i was wondering if it was because it was nobody or it was the player clan and then wasn't displayed.
So i made a small alteration in my mod to display really who supports who.
sKLjRz7.png

See, really simple code.

So it turn that when you do not see who they support, that mean they support nobody, and to my surprise they are a huge majority.
My main city Rotae :
UEsY7tI.jpg

Nobody support my clan, 2 support nobody and all the others supports enemies ...

But in fact Rotae isn't really the biggest issue as i went to some cities where 100% of the notables supports nobody at all, and it's the same for villages. in fact i had to check a dozen of village to see a single notable supporting someone as most of the time they supports nobody at all.
And as it's stated in the post you linked me, this have a really high impact on power.

zn4lyAl.jpg

This is the village i was recruiting my elite troops and yeah, Dorion do not support anybody at all either, and this is the one that have been replaced. Garitops that haven't been replaced yet still supports an enemy clan thought.


How is this supporter thing managed? Is it even managed at all? Cause i remember a few version back that in towns every notables actually supporting a clan, or at least a large majority were. Now it's the perfect opposite, at least in my game.
Now this is interesting! Thanks for taking a look, ima call in @Bannerman Man for some back up on the supporter management
 
How is this supporter thing managed? Is it even managed at all? Cause i remember a few version back that in towns every notables actually supporting a clan, or at least a large majority were. Now it's the perfect opposite, at least in my game.
Okay, so there's a bunch of stuff going on here, and I was already considering making some tech support posts about it soon, so good timing lol. It's something that's obviously a work in progress, and it's messy because they have layered new code in with old code.

When a new game is created, notables are generated in settlements and initial relations are set with lords (based on a set of criteria that isn't important here).

Then, based on the initial relations, the game assigns notables as supporters of clans they have high relations with through random chance. It does this by calling the UpdateNotableSupport method 50 times per notable. The UpdateNotableSupport method rolls a random number that has a low chance of succeeding based on how high the relations with the clan are. The odds are such that ~50-55% of notables will support a clan on game start. Here are those methods:

On-After-New-Game-Created.png


Update-Notable-Support-2.png


UpdateNotableSupport used to be called on a regular basis, but with the recent changes this is no longer the case. It is now only called when a new game is created and never again. So the first problem is that notables' support will not update any time after the game has started. This also means that the player clan will never get an opportunity to gain a supporter.

Next, any time a notable needs replaced, either by a relative when they die or when they are "Lost" due to low power, the method CreateHeroAtOccupation is eventually called. In this method it will look for a (semi) random clan for the notable to support by calling GetRandomClanForNotable. However, in that method there is a block of code that prevents the game from picking a clan to support as shown below:

Get-Random-Clan-For-Notable-2.png


Num is initialized to 0, and the code returns null if a random float is >= 0, which is always (ignore the part about IsGangLeader). So the second problem is that replacement notables will not support any clans when they are generated.


Notables who die of old age will be replaced by their relative, and all of their relations will automatically transfer over. For Lost notables, however, the replacement starts with 0 relations with everyone, so they will only have a small chance to ever support the clan that owns their fief, making them likely to disappear before they get a chance to gain the "Supporter" daily power bonus needed to survive.

Finally, notables can only switch who they support if they stop supporting the previous clan first. The relations threshold for notables to stop supporting a clan is very low, and there are not many ways for npcs to lose relations with notables, so often a notable is stuck supporting the clan of an enemy once the fief changes hands. The bottom half of the UpdateNotableSupport method deals with ending a notable's support for a clan.

So to reiterate, the main issues are as follows:
  1. Notables will only be assigned as a supporter when a new game is created, and not any time after. This is the biggest issue.
  2. Replacement notables are blocked from supporting a random clan when generated.
  3. The replacement notables for those who are "Lost" start with 0 relations with every clan, so even if they had a chance to become a supporter, they will likely disappear before they gain enough relations to get over the threshold for support.
  4. Npcs rarely lose relations with their starting supporting notables enough to allow the notable to switch who they support. So when a fief changes hands, the notable will begin losing power and will eventually disappear (this could be by design).
The outcome of all of this is that gradually, over time, most notables will not support any clans, and they will all lack the key Supporter power bonus, and thus keep getting recycled over and over.

I understand that this system requires some careful designing and tuning, so it might take some time before the best solution is implemented and all of the kinks are worked out. Daily power changes will need some more balancing, especially so the "Supporter" bonus is not so critical for villages, and notables will probably need a way to dynamically change relations with a clan so they have the opportunity to switch support before they vanish. The player should also have an opportunity to gain supporters, which is tough to do at the moment. Maybe a slow daily relations decay for enemy or neutral notables, and a slow gain for allied notables, is a good step (beyond the small gains that are already in place).
 
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Okay, so there's a bunch of stuff going on here, and I was already considering making some tech support posts about it soon, so good timing lol. It's something that's obviously a work in progress, and it's messy because they have layered new code in with old code.

When a new game is created, notables are generated in settlements and initial relations are set with lords (based on a set of criteria that isn't important here).

Then, based on the initial relations, the game assigns notables as supporters of clans they have high relations with through random chance. It does this by calling the UpdateNotableSupport method 50 times per notable. The UpdateNotableSupport method rolls a random number that has a low chance of succeeding based on how high the relations with the clan are. The odds are such that ~50-55% of notables will support a clan on game start. Here are those methods:

On-After-New-Game-Created.png


Update-Notable-Support-2.png


UpdateNotableSupport used to be called on a regular basis, but with the recent changes this is no longer the case. It is now only called when a new game is created and never again. So the first problem is that notables' support will not update any time after the game has started. This also means that the player clan will never get an opportunity to gain a supporter.

Next, any time a notable needs replaced, either by a relative when they die or when they are "Lost" due to low power, the method CreateHeroAtOccupation is eventually called. In this method it will look for a (semi) random clan for the notable to support by calling GetRandomClanForNotable. However, in that method there is a block of code that prevents the game from picking a clan to support as shown below:

Get-Random-Clan-For-Notable-2.png


Num is initialized to 0, and the code returns null if a random float is >= 0, which is always (ignore the part about IsGangLeader). So the second problem is that replacement notables will not support any clans when they are generated.


Notables who die of old age will be replaced by their relative, and all of their relations will automatically transfer over. For Lost notables, however, the replacement starts with 0 relations with everyone, so they will only have a small chance to ever support the clan that owns their fief, making them likely to disappear before they get a chance to gain the "Supporter" daily power bonus needed to survive.

Finally, notables can only switch who they support if they stop supporting the previous clan first. The relations threshold for notables to stop supporting a clan is very low, and there are not many ways for npcs to lose relations with notables, so often a notable is stuck supporting the clan of an enemy once the fief changes hands. The bottom half of the UpdateNotableSupport method deals with ending a notable's support for a clan.

So to reiterate, the main issues are as follows:
  1. Notables will only be assigned as a supporter when a new game is created, and not any time after. This is the biggest issue.
  2. Replacement notables are blocked from supporting a random clan when generated.
  3. The replacement notables for those who are "Lost" start with 0 relations with every clan, so even if they had a chance to become a supporter, they will likely disappear before they gain enough relations to get over the threshold for support.
  4. Npcs rarely lose relations with their starting supporting notables enough to allow the notable to switch who they support. So when a fief changes hands, the notable will begin losing power and will eventually disappear (this could be by design).
The outcome of all of this is that gradually, over time, most notables will not support any clans, and they will all lack the key Supporter power bonus, and thus keep getting recycled over and over.

I understand that this system requires some careful designing and tuning, so it might take some time before the best solution is implemented and all of the kinks are worked out. Daily power changes will need some more balancing, especially so the "Supporter" bonus is not so critical for villages, and notables will probably need a way to dynamically change relations with a clan so they have the opportunity to switch support before they vanish. Maybe a slow daily relations decay for enemy or neutral notables, and a slow gain for allied notables, is a good step (beyond the small gains that are already in place).
When we called, he answered. Thanks for figuring this one out, add it to the tally
 
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