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Disable garrison food consumption until you fix it, or set it to a constant of -1

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dcolinfox

Recruit
The town food consumption is ridiculous. The game is broken. Don't even think about building a kingdom if you can't collect troops and keep them long enough. Reducing the amount of garrison lost does nothing. We need a way NOT to lose garrison at all in our hands. I know this is an early release, but it's like the simple variables and properties of the game only exist on the back burner. These things should have had more focus even before early release. The game should be playable even in early release. Running around across the map collecting food and dumping it in towns to keep your garrison is NOT the game I want to play.

Set the garrison food consumption to a constant of -1 FAST until you balance this out, so we can at least play the game.
 

Maximuuus

Regular
Use the mod bannerlord tweak.
I know it's not what you want to hear... I don't like being forced to play with mod but it's the only solution atm... You can configure it to disable all other tweak/cheat.

Anyway my game crash now so I'm not able to play anymore but for +- 1200 in game days the experience was enjoyable with this mod/fix.
 

dcolinfox

Recruit
Use the mod bannerlord tweak.
I know it's not what you want to hear... I don't like being forced to play with mod but it's the only solution atm... You can configure it to disable all other tweak/cheat.

Anyway my game crash now so I'm not able to play anymore but for +- 1200 in game days the experience was enjoyable with this mod/fix.

Actually, that is what I wanted to hear. Thanks for that info. Checked it out. I like how you can adjust it. I just believe that ten years of development should have produced a somewhat stable mechanics. I guess they focused on graphics.
 

Hoki

Recruit
There’s another mod that auto recruits prisoners into garrison, and it gives you a plus food option, which you can change.
If you’ve got 500 garrison and losing 10 food, you can just add to the configuration.
 

durbal

Sergeant
We need a way NOT to lose garrison at all in our hands.

That goes against the economic and settlement design concepts and IMO just improverishes the gameplay experience. That said, there are already mods that allow you to do this if you want to.

Also I suggest playing on 1.3.0 beta if you aren't already and see if you like the changes made therein.
 

dcolinfox

Recruit
That goes against the economic and settlement design concepts and IMO just improverishes the gameplay experience. That said, there are already mods that allow you to do this if you want to.

Also I suggest playing on 1.3.0 beta if you aren't already and see if you like the changes made therein.

No it doesn't. The food should be in our capabilities to manage. The way it is now, it's broken because no matter what you do, you lose food. I wasn't implying a cheat, but management capabilities that produce results. What impoverishes the gameplay experience is spending your time running after food while your settlements are being attacked just to have to go back again soon after. Yes, this is an issue. It impedes you from building your army. In case you haven't guessed how this is relevant to early release, we can't get any farther than that without a mod to report further problems. If anyone has gotten that far, they got lucky somehow. Maybe they were part of a kingdom that didn't war too often for instance. When something affects our game and it's auto-managed, we call that dumbed-down.
 

durbal

Sergeant
No it doesn't. The food should be in our capabilities to manage. The way it is now, it's broken because no matter what you do, you lose food. I wasn't implying a cheat, but management capabilities that produce results. What impoverishes the gameplay experience is spending your time running after food while your settlements are being attacked just to have to go back again soon after. Yes, this is an issue. It impedes you from building your army. In case you haven't guessed how this is relevant to early release, we can't get any farther than that without a mod to report further problems. If anyone has gotten that far, they got lucky somehow. Maybe they were part of a kingdom that didn't war too often for instance. When something affects our game and it's auto-managed, we call that dumbed-down.

I have a bunch of castles on the border and some in enemy territory and none of them have food issues...
 

dcolinfox

Recruit
I have a bunch of castles on the border and some in enemy territory and none of them have food issues...

Castles don't have issues. Towns do. Castles only have issues when you're villages are raided, which will happen when you're running across the map to feed your towns. Get some towns. Jalmarys, for instance. Then tell me that.
 

durbal

Sergeant
Castles don't have issues. Towns do. Castles only have issues when you're villages are raided, which will happen when you're running across the map to feed your towns. Get some towns. Jalmarys, for instance. Then tell me that.

Towns are even easier though since they get caravans and have a market you can dump food into. Do you want screenshots? How many? Any particular towns?

Are you playing in 1.3.0 beta?
 

andycott

Sergeant
There's a mod "Garrisons Don't Eat Nor Starve"
But it's not a good idea to make garrisons completely immune to starvation. Minus 1 is almost the same to 0 in this case.
I understand that you want fast and simple solution.
But this will lead to other problems. F.e. during sieges garrisons won't ever starve without food. You may have unlimited garrisons, which is bad for balance too. Etc.
So it's just exchanging one problem on another.

In other thread I suggested different ways to deal with it, which can make the game more balanced. Especially if most part of them are implemented, not just one. Because this is not only garrison problem.
Tools to balance food and prosperity. Detailed suggestions for food shortages.
One of them is that garrison troops should be the last to starve. More detailed inside.
In this thread you will also find links to other mods, which realize ideas similar to my suggestions.
 
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Maximuuus

Regular
Towns are even easier though since they get caravans and have a market you can dump food into. Do you want screenshots? How many? Any particular towns?

Are you playing in 1.3.0 beta?

Poros's screenshot please....
Without mod of course, and with a true garnison, such as AI towns I mean...

Never had problems in Zeonica, but Jalmarys is another town that had food issues after a while (probably depending of prosperity).

Not sure because I don't have thise city for a long time but what about Revyl ? Actually have problems even with mods.
 

TheShermanator

Sergeant
As a temporary measure, I think it makes sense to turn off garrison starvation. But I don’t want to see this feature totally disappear. I just want to see it work reasonably well with food consumption and economy fixed. E.g When is city is low on food, the vendors in the city should be willing to pay super high prices for food, so that every merchant and their mother is willing to flock to the city to sell them food.
 

benchwarmer

Regular
As a temporary measure, I think it makes sense to turn off garrison starvation. But I don’t want to see this feature totally disappear. I just want to see it work reasonably well with food consumption and economy fixed. E.g When is city is low on food, the vendors in the city should be willing to pay super high prices for food, so that every merchant and their mother is willing to flock to the city to sell them food.
Totally agree.
Got a castle being a vassal, the villages tied to the castle is just getting beat the hell up and had to used the option in the Improved Garrison mode to stabilize the food issue after seeing there's no hope of getting this issue under control.
After using the mode, the loyalty is rising from being close to 0, but the prosperity is still dropping, initially had something like 1200 at the start but now under 300. And the income from the Castle and the villages might be somewhere around few hundreds or less by now.

This has gotten so freaking bad that whenever the Kingdom gets to vote on the fief decision, I am praying that I am not up on the ballot list.
If so, I always vote against me.

It's a Freaking Horror, I tell you.
 

TheShermanator

Sergeant
For what it's worth, I think the food production to prosperity ratio is mostly fine - in that the limits to food production is designed limit prosperity. Arguably, the lack of buffer space between food the city needs to consume is a problem (such that, arguably, cities are too sensitive to civilian starvation / prosperity loss based on even pretty brief food disruptions), but, conversely, some would argue that the small buffer space makes the game more interesting and varied (e.g. raids are more consequential, so players are more likely to respect them).Fundamentally, though, we should expect there to be an equilibrium between prosperity and food production, such that the city eventually grows big enough that it consumes just about all of the food that it can. (If villages produced more food, prosperity would just grow to match, which would cause the city to consume more food, etc.)

The problem (as we're talking about above) seems to be when prosperity dips really low, such that food prices are really low (prosperity drives all commodity prices), such that merchants come and buy the food away instead of sell food to the low prosperity city, even if it's starving. There should be really strong in-elastic demand for food basically: The city should only sell it's last 100 food or so at really really high prices.

IMHO, then, the problem is not really the prosperity to food relationship. The problem is that the garrison gets its food, unmediated, straight from the same granary that the city uses for its civilian prosperity-based consumption.

I think there should be a separate buffer food stash for the garrison. This food stash would steadily buy food from the local market (for cities - would need to figure out an alternative mechanism for castles) until it reached a cap (e.g. 200), so it would still be dependent on the local food supply and ultimately be negatively impacted by general city / castle food shortages. When the city's food supply hit zero, such that the market hit 0 food stocks, there would be no more food to buy, and the garrison's consumption would draw down it's stash. But if the stash cap is say 200, and the garrison's food consumption is 10-30 or so, there would be more of a buffer to protect the players investment in the garrison. (You could play with those numbers of course in testing if that turns out to be too much garrison protection.)
 
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benchwarmer

Regular
Going off the topic but my Brewery in Vostrum is making +7 denars atm, going to be long time before it pays off.
It's been going down, soon it will reach negative.
Let's see 15000 denars divided by 7 = more than 2000 days to pay off the initial investment.

For some reason this one workshop has survived several exchanges of town ownership.
 
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Flesson19

Not a Cookie
Knight
This could be tied into what I noticed today and the food trade good prices in all are way above all the time, it seems maybe the garrisons are consuming all the cities food driving the prices up now. It's weird going to a town and fish and grain are the only 2 food items below 50 cost. With a town not just been sieged, I don't think I have ever seen that.
 

Patwick

Veteran
Change were made about food in the latest hotfix to improve starving situation of city/castles :

Reason was item demands were directly calculated from prosperity. Each item's demand is something like this : prosperity x constant. This means if a town has less/no prosperity there is less/no demand for each item. However food consumption is not only from people of town. Food is also bought by lords visits town. So I added additional fixed demand for food items. So even prosperity is low food demand is between low-medium now. After this fix I see higher food prices in towns with less food and less prosperity. So high food prices get caravans attraction more. So these towns get needed food better compared to previous version. Also as a minor change added beer as a consumption giving food bonus to food stores.
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
This could be tied into what I noticed today and the food trade good prices in all are way above all the time, it seems maybe the garrisons are consuming all the cities food driving the prices up now. It's weird going to a town and fish and grain are the only 2 food items below 50 cost. With a town not just been sieged, I don't think I have ever seen that.

Yesterday there was a bug in beta branch which increased food prices about 1.5x (occured while we are trying to reduce ratio of starving towns), it will be fixed today. Also colorization of item price texts now will be according to world average not a fixed number. For example if grain average price in world is 15 then 12 will be green colored, 20 will be red colored.

However still in our system we cannot guarentee average grain price will be always 10. Average item prices changing according to time and world situation. It become 12 just after game start and rises up to 18 in 20-25 years. Means that we have a slight inflation at item prices. We will try to make it less in next days.
 
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