directional/auto blocking

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

Is anyone actually proficient at directional blocking? If there is, I haven't met him online. Basically, if your shield is broken, and your opponent's is not, chances are you are dead meat. While I like a system that rewards mad skills, it doesn't really have a place if only 0.01% of players can actually use it well.

With directional blocking being so difficult, all you end up seeing are shield bashing fests to see whose shield gets busted first. This basically means players with the toughest shields or shield killing weapons often win these bash fests. You never get to see any any good sword fights. However, with auto block, all you see is the opposite: it's too easy so you get non-stop weapon blocks, also boring.

I'd like to see some sort of middle-ground with regards to blocking and melee fights, but a solution escapes me. I wonder if anyone has any ideas as to how to address this. Please chime in.

 

[Grombeard]

I like the manual block system as it is. And of course it should be much more difficult to parry with a weapon than to block with a shield. Just go to your nearest medieval fair, borrow some weapons and a shield and try it out by yourself!

 

[Tzacharu]

I totally agree with you on the issue. I remember reading one topic where someone suggested that it take longer for certain weapons to fully swing, and take an extra amount of time in between swings, so a person trying to block with their sword has more time to react. The main problem is reaction time. Most people cannot react quick enough in order to block the sword, and if it took longer to swing the sword, it would give people some time to get ready for it.

Another thing you could do is add this to shields as well. Force a shielded player to manually block, however it is easier because the shield is much larger. There are countless times where I've attacked someone from the side and the shield blocked the blow because he had it up. Other times, a shield wearer blocked a blow above is head when his shield was facing slightly downward. It would still make it easier to block with a shield because there a room for error, but it doesn't make shields the end-all-be-all of one on one fights.

One more thing you could do is cause a slight delay in successive attacks if your swing is blocked. This will promote timing your swings and add a bit of skill to battles. The delay can't be so much that you're dead meat if you're blocked, but enough so that you need to be quick to recover.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I fancy I could if I didn't have a minimum ping of 250.

 

[Lord Rust]

I'm not a fan of manual blocking myself, but we have servers with both types so I can't really say I mind.

In a straight up sword fight without shields and manual block, i'll probably lose, but that's life and you can always choose an auto block server if you dont like it.

 

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

I fancy I could if I didn't have a minimum ping of 250.

You're saying that you can go toe to toe with someone with the same gear, minus a shield, and win roughly 50% of the time? I'd like to see that.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Oh sorry, I was replying from memory. I mean I fancy I'd be proficient (or I hope, given how much practice I've had in native =p). I really have no clue what melee is like at the lower pings though unfortunately.

 

[seanparkerfilms]

Here's a thread where I proposed just what you're requesting: an intermediate blocking system that gives the control of manual block without being incredibly difficult, but still much tougher than autoblock:

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,75140.0.html

 

[kingofnoobia]

I'm not in the beta, but at least in single player manual blocking was my strongest point. With everything on hardest, I think I block 90% (depends on the situation of course). And I don't think bots and humans are very different to parry. Bots move less unpredictably but they can feign at an awesome speed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyfJoagxY2k

This is a very short video from me (without sound) sparring against lethwin far-seeker. He's the toughest opponent I could get for sparring (20 agi, 200+ proficiencies -> very fast attacks).

Now I would fight 3d person though, I'm better at that.

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

I know Booya and myself are pretty good at manual blocking.  I find that I am much better at it if I simply react and don't think it out, as strange as that sounds.  There are a couple others I have noticed that are good at manual block (TheMageLord maybe?) but I can't remember exactly who.  The point is they are out there.

 

[Cormac BAMC]

I find that manual blocking is unfortunately extremely connection sensitive.

 

[seanparkerfilms]

I find that manual blocking is unfortunately extremely connection sensitive.

Yeah. Anyone with mediocre ping (100+) can probably attest to it being a fairly significant challenge (i.e., more than it should be).

 

[Apthorpe]

I am in no way an expert at manual blocking, but I get by with it. I will say, however, that it is too hard to manually block the really fast melee weapons (like scims and the cheap 1h swords), as the parry doesn't cause enough lag against the enemy player's attack to stop him from spamming attack after attack the majority of the time.

 

[Trelin]

It should balance out as people get better at manual blocking.  Some days I can manual block most everything and other days (usually) I can't do it for ****.  Seems that if I panic I will accidentally block in the wrong direction.  There is also a tendency to circlce right to keep them at range and if I'm doing that it screws up my mouse movement and messes up the block.

Practice, I guess.  One day soon we may even be stating that it is too easy to manual block?

 

[TheMageLord]

I'm decent at manual block. It takes practice.

Some weapons are very difficult to manual block, though.

Spear & bastard sword are both extremely fast when used two handed. Manually blocking them is HARD.

One issue is the fact that you can instantly change the direction of your attack by tapping the block button. I've had it done to me and I've done it to others. You can draw back and immediately switch and usually they wind up blocking the first direction, even if they are really good at it. It's just too hard to block when the windup looks like its a left swing but the animation doesn't quite update and the swing just suddenly comes from the right. If you do it just right you can hold the sword back one way and have it immediately swing from the other direction without the animation showing the sword being moved to the other side.

Some of the faster 1h weapons are also a bit tough to manual block.

 

[peers]

Is anyone actually proficient at directional blocking?

Quite a few people are. I'm not the best with it, but I'd say I'm better than most. I have no trouble taking a shield down in couple hits and taking the other person manual block vs manual block with a 2h'er. I'd rather be terrible at it than have to play on an autoblock server, where is the fun in 1 vs 1s that last forever?

 

[Lord Mur]

I'm finding manual blocking alright - the difficulty is more believable. I believe that it should only be a feature in deathmatches, though, because it is possible to re-spawn. In a 'Battle' game, you get one life and losing your shield early to a couched lance, say, means another 6 minutes of watching people play looms.

 

[test]

One issue is the fact that you can instantly change the direction of your attack by tapping the block button. I've had it done to me and I've done it to others. You can draw back and immediately switch and usually they wind up blocking the first direction, even if they are really good at it. It's just too hard to block when the windup looks like its a left swing but the animation doesn't quite update and the swing just suddenly comes from the right. If you do it just right you can hold the sword back one way and have it immediately swing from the other direction without the animation showing the sword being moved to the other side.

I think there sorely needs to be an incentive for actually holding down an attack and charging/readying one direction.  It's basically pointless to ready an attack right now, as there's no benefit to it and it just makes you more easily blocked.  I was thinking the longer you hold down an attack in one direction, the more knockback it does, even when it's blocked.  Slower/heavier (like 2 handed hammers) weapons would do more knockback when charged, than say a one handed short sword would.

Right now a fast one hander with shield trumps everything in melee, even if it's something cheap like a throwing axe in melee mode.  Especially on the manual block battle server now (basically the only server North Americans play on), it's mostly just a race to see whoever's shield goes down first.  Having weapon knockback would add a lot of depth to melee combat and make weapon range/arc more of a factor.  A 2 handed player with a giant weapon would actually be able to keep a 1 handed melee throwing axe player at bay for a couple swings before getting his face rushed in. 

 

[ares007]

Come on. We've only been playing for a few weeks really. Give people some more time to practice and it get it down. The manual block adds too much depth and skill aspect to the game to take away.

I do think a couple of thinks might help balance it though:
1) adding recoil to your attack when it is blocked. This would give someone without a shield a chance to counter before he gets swarmed. It will mean that you might not have to block 10 attacks in a row, maybe only the first couple (not that much of a problem for me  ).

2) make all weapons slower when used with shields. I know this is already done to an extent, but maybe it should be exaggerated more.

Of course, there is pretty much a stalemate possibility right now with the shield. If your shield gets knocked out just ready an attack and don't release it. In order to attack you, the guy with the shield has to drop his defense. Then hit him. A smart opponent will realize what you're doing, and not lower his defense. Then it's pretty much the first one who's buddy shows up to help out.

Of course, don't forget that with the recent patch, there is a better chance now of hitting around the opponent's block/shield. Once you lose your shield, try to turn it into a maneuvering fight. If he keeps his block up, you will more faster than him. If he keeps it down, you will attack faster than him.

Ultimately, manual block combat takes some practice. It's almost like its own martial art. I don't think this should be taken away from the game.


note: test posted while I was typing this up 

I think test's idea is great.

 

[kingofnoobia]

One issue is the fact that you can instantly change the direction of your attack by tapping the block button. I've had it done to me and I've done it to others. You can draw back and immediately switch and usually they wind up blocking the first direction, even if they are really good at it. It's just too hard to block when the windup looks like its a left swing but the animation doesn't quite update and the swing just suddenly comes from the right. If you do it just right you can hold the sword back one way and have it immediately swing from the other direction without the animation showing the sword being moved to the other side.

I think there sorely needs to be an incentive for actually holding down an attack and charging/readying one direction.  It's basically pointless to ready an attack right now, as there's no benefit to it and it just makes you more easily blocked.  I was thinking the longer you hold down an attack in one direction, the more knockback it does, even when it's blocked.  Slower/heavier (like 2 handed hammers) weapons would do more knockback when charged, than say a one handed short sword would.

Right now a fast one hander with shield trumps everything in melee, even if it's something cheap like a throwing axe in melee mode.  Especially on the manual block battle server now (basically the only server North Americans play on), it's mostly just a race to see whoever's shield goes down first.  Having weapon knockback would add a lot of depth to melee combat and make weapon range/arc more of a factor.  A 2 handed player with a giant weapon would actually be able to keep a 1 handed melee throwing axe player at bay for a couple swings before getting his face rushed in.

What about:

• If a certain amount of damage is blocked (the damage the attack WOULD have done if it wasn't blocked, armor not incalculated) the one who is blocking recoils a bit.
• If the blocked damage knockback req is not met, the attacker recoils a bit.

The damage requirement to knockback depends on the weapon the defender is wielding. A two hander is MUCH harder to knock back than a one hander, and swords are slightly better at blocking than axes or other hafted, less blanced weapons. The req dmg could also be increased by your proficiency in a certain weapon type.

I would like that better than a 'charged' attack, because that looks a bit silly.