Diplomacy, War, Relations, Envoys, Kingdoms, Alliances and Trade

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jimziboi15

Recruit
Hi everyone,
There’s a few things I find stick out like a sore thumb which create a bit of a short fall with bannerlord. Of course I know its in early stages but hey, thats what we have the forum for, ideas :smile: But before I get into that, I've got a few suggestions and I’ll add why I think we need these things included into the game to make life a little more enjoyable as well as creating a whole new dimension of game play.
Essentially, I think peace time should be a more important part of the game than what it is. Almost as important as war.

1. Diplomacy/Kingdoms relations menu, here I think we could see what every kingdom thinks of us (the clan or kingdom we’re in) by using a bar, one side green (positive) the other side red (negative) with a little pointer showing where they sit, as well as the ability to send envoys to various characters. So for example we could have the Kingdom – Relation. Then when clicked on it open’s a smaller pop up menu with all the clans under that kingdom (Clan – Relation) and what they think of us. We could also click on each clan and see the various characters (Character – Relation) and have the ability to send envoys or letters to each individual or clan.

Why? Because it will make it easier to visualise relations and to see which clans may become potential ally’s. Other thing too, using envoys makes life one hell of a lot easier rather than treking the map to find one dude.


Ideas for fixing the constant non-stop illogical wars which happen way too damn much;
Kingdom relations, alliance system, trade, execution and assassination. If you’ve ever played strategy games like Total War and Stellaris then you’ll know exactly what I‘m talking about with diplomacy. (In all honesty, I think these games provide a great blueprint for diplomatic relations and also add more to this game than just war and battlefield strategy)



2. Kingdom Relations. I think there needs to be positive relations between certain kingdoms and not so positive relations between other kingdoms. But there also needs to be a way that kingdoms and clans can develop a friendship other than doing quests and talking. Thats why I think using the Diplomacy/Kingdoms Relations Menu is perfect for this. In this menu, I also think kingdoms can improve relations by creating treaties, tributing/gifting money, gifting land, supplies (weapons and food) to other kingdoms. Helping another kingdom or clan in battle should create a huge amount of relationship improvement, especially towards the clan which you've helped.
Clan can vouch to join you in battle in the future or do a favour for you.

Why? Because despite certain kingdoms having much in common, for example the Imperial factions or the factions that had been destroyed by the empire previously, everyone seems to cut everyone’s throat open without a second thought. And they do it way too much. So for that reason I think relations between kingdoms and clans needs to be put in place to ease this up.
Kingdoms need to be smarter about declaring war.


3. War needs to be a much bigger deal than what it is. War is almost constant when you’re your own kingdom or when one kingdom declares war everyone else starts declaring war on you. So to counter this, Kingdom relations and clan relations can help steady this down a little.
Another thing that can help, executions and assassinations. Both of these things can make kings and clan leaders a little more anxious about declaring war. And for that reason I think both of these things need to become a little bit more common.
Interaction with prisoners is also something that I think needs to happen. After a prisoner is captured, we should be able to converse with them, asking them to join our kingdom or to get their clan to join us is something useful. Threatening their execution or the execution of another family member is a good way to leverage this.

Why? I do love the wars and the fighting, but it gets to a point where you kinda go “alright, enough now this is getting repetitive. And it makes no sense why you’re attacking me Vlandians, you’re on the other side of the map!”


4. Alliance systems. I also think there needs to be an alliance system. I mean, if factions joined together once why cant they join together again? Defensive pacts, military alliances and caravan trade agreements I think should all be implemented. Especially if relations are high between two kingdoms.

Why? Because if two kingdoms hate another kingdom, why the heck aren’t they banding together? Or if two kingdoms have awesome relations, why can’t they become best of friends?



5. Small clans/Mercenary clans should be vassals/small subjugated kingdoms. These guys, whilst yes they can be useful, make no sense. How many mercenary clans with no loyalty can you name in history? Yeah, none. Mercenary’s should just be mercenary’s bought from taverns.
They should be a small kingdom subject to another larger kingdom, for example the lake rats could have a castle or a town (Like Tyall) and fight under the Sturgians. Their loyalty could be easier to persuade than other clans however as they are their own kingdom, just subjugated, and they may not particularly like their ruling kingdom (again – kingdom relations menu comes in handy here).

Why? Because having these small clans join you for a few weeks, then leave and join your enemies is kinda ridiculous.



6. Trade. Something I think that is completely underused. Caravans could be used for a hell of a lot more than just the caravan owner making money. They could be used to trade with only certain kingdoms, warring kingdoms may not get trade, creating financial ramifications for kingdoms at constant war. Caravans can generate income for both the kingdom they serve and the kingdom they travel to, as well as improve relations.

There will be some things that most people agree with here and some things no one agrees with. Hope this helps.
Thanks for reading, have a good day everyone :grin:

Jimziboi15
 

MostBlunted

On probation
Of course I know its in early stages
Not really, the game will be released in Q1/2022 (may change again, but that´s the plan).

Your ideas are good, most of them were made over and over again here (alliances as an example).

Let´s hope that TW will pick some up.
 

SaltyNacho

Recruit
Lots of good ideas here, would really add to the medieval simulation and help it feel like it's independent of the player.
 

Meshkinas

Recruit
WBVC
Imma just drop dis here:
  • More detailed politics:
    • Alliances: trade, military, marriage, temporary truce to curb power of another realm, etc;
    • Realm splits: rebellions, death of a ruler and resulting power vacuum, civil wars, betrayals, lands sold to other realms, etc;
    • Covert ops: secret alliances between monarchs, bribes, assassinations/kidnappings of nobles/prominent figures, betrayals, etc;
    • Ability to start and end wars by assassinating the king.
    • Ability to force a realm or fortress to surrender:
      • Kidnap a member of royal family (or other prominent figure) to force a ruler to submit;
      • Starve a fortress by cutting off their supply lines and exits;
      • Cripple a realm's economy by cutting off it's supply lines, sabotaging caravans, convincing other realms not to trade;
      • Destroy a king's reputation among the populace;
    • etc.
  • More detailed real-time strategy:
    • Proper pre-battle troops deployment with an option to get an overhead view;
    • Ability to choose which troops, in particular, to include in the battle (if there's a limit to how many you can include);
    • Ability to tell different parts of your troops, or even specific ones, exactly which targets to attack and which ones to ignore;
    • Ability to get into overhead view (pause screen) at any point of the battle and order your troops around (commands will be carried out once battle is unpaused);
    • etc.
  • More detailed courtship:
    • NPC nobles with actual ambitions and sense of competition;
    • Ability to distinguish yourself (on battlefield, in trade, in strategy mind) and prove yourself more worthy than some NPC for some position (marshal, king, some noble title, a friend, a lover, etc.);
    • NPCs holding grudges, that may take them as far as betray their realm and hunt you down with another army, or go after your friends/family;
    • Bold NPCs unafraid to insult you, or your family, publicly. Your reaction will decide what the other NPCs think of you;
    • Dueling lords over an insult;
    • Dueling lords over a lady;
    • Ability for NPCs and players alike to hit on another's wife;
    • NPCs can even wage wars due to love afairs (love triangles, cheating, desire to impress a sadistic lady, etc);
    • Friend NPCs abandoning their duties to come to your aid, when you are in need of it (depends on personality);
    • Friend NPCs that helped you, but abandoned their duties, facing punishment. You can either try to save their skin, or abandon them. Both could have dire ramifications for your standing in the realm.
    • etc.
  • More detailed 3rd person combat (individual):
    • Look no further than For Honor game.
    • Dodging;
    • Crouching;
    • Better spear combat - spears could be held overhead, and used effectively at short distance;
    • Better spear combat - long spears can be used to hit enemy over the shoulder of friendly troops;
    • deflect&riposte - precisely timed and directed attack can deflect opponent's weapon and damage the opponent, at the same time;
    • etc.
  • More detailed field combat:
    • Properly working formations (effective shield walls, turtle/testudo formation, smooth transition into attack);
    • Properly working spears (spear bracing against cavalry, phalanx/rows of spears against infantry);
    • Properly working cavalry (proper charge formations, that don't break);
    • Archers not being OP;
    • Ability to use terrain to your advantage:
      • Fall trees/rocks/build barricades to interfere with cavalry charges;
      • Drive enemy forces into a chokepoint when outnumbered.
  • Better Battle AI:
    • Uses proper formations, instead of just charging or sitting in map corner;
    • Uses terrain elevation and features (trees, other obstacles) to it's advantage;
    • Gives different target priorities to different troops (e.g. cavalry flanking towards archers, or to hit infantry formations from rear)
    • etc.
  • Additional immersion-increasing stuff, that existed in previous games:
    • Dog companions;
    • Hunting;
    • Ambushes - must be changed though. They were seemingly chance-based upon engaging an enemy in Viking Conquest. Which was annoying;
    • Feasts;
    • etc.
 
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Jella

Recruit
gad demmat there are so many ppl with so many suggestions on this forum. so many unrealised ideas which could make bannerlord a real AAA game. but this semi casual organization just unable to fulfill it.
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
All these suggestions is what everyone wants in bannerlord and these would make the game better than it is, but I guess some of these might not be too necessary for base game, but could be modded instead
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
I think some kind of alliances or even complete combining of weakened or defeated (no land) factions would be good. I also think a type of surrender as like a vassal state or such would be a good late game mechanic, for when you kingdom is completely dominant. It make sense for the factions to want to remain in tack somewhat rather then forcing you do wipe the off the earth completely.

As it is now, you reach this strange end game where there many many many enemy clans who will not join you (despite, high relations and no money/fief) but pose absolutely no threat and have no ability to do anything but be perpetual prisoners as your faction gobbles up all remaining fiefs. If they could combine forces properly (they often are in war against each other too)they may be able to put up a fight. Or if a weakened faction would submit to you and be allowed to persist as an ally that would make a more interesting end game too, then having to bulldoze everyone off the map and call it GG.

Really, I view the warfare as a barebones demo with bandaids, it was okay for starting EA, but it really should be revised and fleshed out before release. If not, it's basically just letting the game go. Sure, hopefully some modders will put out some good stuff, but it's shame to just not do a good job at the base vanilla game.
 

AngryPanCake

Recruit
To be honest, I am not too disappointed with the game so far. I have barely scratched the surface, but I am quite impressed!
I think as long as the base game is stable and the game as a whole is mod friendly, then all these things can be done by modders and make the whole game even more amazing.

The only problem is when devs make it difficult for modders to work their magic for unclear reasons. Like making certain aspects of the game so hardcoded that need not be and make it difficult for talented people to create stuff that makes the game even better.

As far as I am concerned, I always give preference to games that have mods even if the base/vanilla version is not great...as long as it's stable and there are mods out there, I go for that game!
 
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